Around The League 2022-2023 season

[Knightro]

Well, if that were truth it shouldn't prevent him shoot the wide open midrange shot with no defender looking his way. In my opinion he is struggling mentally and trying to deflect attention from that at this point.

But he didn't do those kind of things even when he was making all-star teams in Philadelphia.

He was never a guy, even at his very best, who really took any jump shots. It just wasn't part of his game back when he had no purported mental issues, so I think it's unfair to suggest mental issues are the reason why he's not shooting them now.

I think Simmons is a guy who always had significant limitations (bad and unwilling shooter, scared to attack in key moments because he doesn't want to get fouled, etc) who was able to mask/overcome a lot of those limitations by being an elite passer, rebounder, defender, and finisher.

But now because of injuries, he's not elite (or even all that good) at any of the things he used to be elite at. So the things he's always been terrible at since day 1 are even more aggressively in everyone's face.

[p0peye]

Well, if that were truth it shouldn't prevent him shoot the wide open midrange shot with no defender looking his way. In my opinion he is struggling mentally and trying to deflect attention from that at this point.

But he didn't do those kind of things even when he was making all-star teams in Philadelphia.

He was never a guy, even at his very best, who really took any jump shots. It just wasn't part of his game back when he had no purported mental issues, so I think it's unfair to suggest mental issues are the reason why he's not shooting them now.

I think Simmons is a guy who always had significant limitations (bad and unwilling shooter, scared to attack in key moments because he doesn't want to get fouled, etc) who was able to mask/overcome a lot of those limitations by being an elite passer, rebounder, defender, and finisher.

But now because of injuries, he's not elite (or even all that good) at any of the things he used to be elite at. So the things he's always been terrible at since day 1 are even more aggressively in everyone's face.

So, what I am saying is that quite possibly he always struggled with mental health issues resulting in lack of confidence and/or avoiding situation that would subject him to public criticism. It is one thing to be a bad shooter, this goes way beyond that.

[Knightro]

So, what I am saying is that quite possibly he always struggled with mental health issues resulting in lack of confidence and/or avoiding situation that would subject him to public criticism. It is one thing to be a bad shooter, this goes way beyond that.

I'm hesitant to categorize a basketball player lacking confidence in a particular ability (in Simmons' case shooting jumpshots) to an actual chemical imbalance in the brain or a medically diagnosed disorder.

I think the mental health situation as a whole has the potential to be a very a tough to navigate situation in professional sports moving forward. It is something that will need to be addressed in the next NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement in my opinion.

I don't know what the right outcome is, but I know the NBA is going to want to do whatever they can to avoid another Simmons situation where a player signs a maximum contract and then one year into that contract decides he can no longer play for that organization because it's detrimental to his mental health.

"I don't want to play for your organization because I don't like your organization and being around your organization negatively impacts my mental health." was essentially Ben Simmons' justification to never play for the Sixers again.

Is that an acceptable outcome?

[GelbeWand09]

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[p0peye]

So, what I am saying is that quite possibly he always struggled with mental health issues resulting in lack of confidence and/or avoiding situation that would subject him to public criticism. It is one thing to be a bad shooter, this goes way beyond that.

I'm hesitant to categorize a basketball player lacking confidence in a particular ability (in Simmons' case shooting jumpshots) to an actual chemical imbalance in the brain or a medically diagnosed disorder.

I think the mental health situation as a whole has the potential to be a very a tough to navigate situation in professional sports moving forward. It is something that will need to be addressed in the next NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement in my opinion.

I don't know what the right outcome is, but I know the NBA is going to want to do whatever they can to avoid another Simmons situation where a player signs a maximum contract and then one year into that contract decides he can no longer play for that organization because it's detrimental to his mental health.

"I don't want to play for your organization because I don't like your organization and being around your organization negatively impacts my mental health." was essentially Ben Simmons' justification to never play for the Sixers again.

Is that an acceptable outcome?

IIRC, he wasn't getting paid for the year, but Sixers cap was impacted nonetheless. I am not sure what the solution would be, but I agree that some policy should be in place also to prevent abuse.

[Knightro]

IIRC, he wasn't getting paid for the year, but Sixers cap was impacted nonetheless. I am not sure what the solution would be, but I agree that some policy should be in place also to prevent abuse.

That was a weird situation.

The Sixers basically took the position of "ok we believe you have mental health issues, please see our team recommended therapists to get it diagnosed and treated" and Simmons more or less refused to do that.

So they repeatedly fined him for essentially refusing to honor the terms of his contract.

But Simmons filed a grievance and eventually he and the Sixers reached an undetermined settlement.

[jonbob17]

Charlotte is off to a 4-12 start. Now, Lamelo missed most of those games, but the deck seems stacked against them to challenge for the playoffs. Will they decide to enter the Wembanyama sweepstakes, and if so how does that sit with newly hired Clifford.

Lakers 3-10....i mean the one team that won't tank, and they are so bad it might not matter.

[Ducklett]

Fournier just got dropped from the Knicks rotation. Once a loser, always a loser.

[PrimeThyme]

Choosing Fournier/Ibaka over a Prime Dipo and rookie Sabonis is still one of the worst basketball decisions of the last 10 years.

[NavalAviator94]

Choosing Fournier/Ibaka over a Prime Dipo and rookie Sabonis is still one of the worst basketball decisions of the last 10 years.

I think Bamba over SGA is criminal.

[basketballRob]

Choosing Fournier/Ibaka over a Prime Dipo and rookie Sabonis is still one of the worst basketball decisions of the last 10 years.

I think Bamba over SGA is criminal.

Jerry West hid SGA during the whole draft process.

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[Knightro]

Choosing Fournier/Ibaka over a Prime Dipo and rookie Sabonis is still one of the worst basketball decisions of the last 10 years.

It wasn't a good trade in retrospect certainly, but the case could absolutely be made that Fournier > Oladipo at the time of the trade.

They were the same age and Fournier was clearly the better shooter with seemingly more upside offensively.

It took Oladipo getting traded twice for him to wake up and start taking basketball really seriously. Once he got traded to Indiana, he completely overhauled his body and got in tremendous shape.

Once he did that, he became an all-star and was obviously much better than Fournier who never improved all that much, but it stands to reason that wouldn't have happened for Vic in Orlando.

Ibaka was a brutal bust though. His defense had steadily fallen off the last few years in OKC as he aged and he was pretty much best suited to play center by the time the Magic got him. But they already had Vucevic and Biyombo soaking up all those minutes

[Knightro]

I think Bamba over SGA is criminal.

I mean with the benefit of hindsight, sure.

But it's not like SGA went with the next pick either. Four more teams passed on him after the Magic. 10 teams passed on him. It's not like taking Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic at the top of the draft.

Say whatever you want about Bamba now, and he's a complete bust to be clear, but he was universally considered by every draft prognosticator to be a superior prospect to SGA at that time.

I will admit that some people, MagicMatic specifically, certainly liked SGA, but generally speaking pretty much no one had SGA even on the radar as a possibility at 6 until Woj tweeted his name out in connection with the Magic unexpectedly right before the draft.

And as BasketballRob said, the most commonly accepted story out there is that Shai got promised by LA early in the process and pretty much shut it down immediately to everyone else.

[pepe1991]

Charlotte is off to a 4-12 start. Now, Lamelo missed most of those games, but the deck seems stacked against them to challenge for the playoffs. Will they decide to enter the Wembanyama sweepstakes, and if so how does that sit with newly hired Clifford.

Lakers 3-10....i mean the one team that won't tank, and they are so bad it might not matter.

Hornets, to me , look like prime candidate for sign& trade around $31M of expiring money of Hayward in offseason.

Maybe next year Miles Bridges situation is solved, they still own his rights. It seems like he will avoid jail time.

They should have A LOT of cap space .

[tiderulz]

I think Bamba over SGA is criminal.

I mean with the benefit of hindsight, sure.

But it's not like SGA went with the next pick either. Four more teams passed on him after the Magic. 10 teams passed on him. It's not like taking Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic at the top of the draft.

Say whatever you want about Bamba now, and he's a complete bust to be clear, but he was universally considered by every draft prognosticator to be a superior prospect to SGA at that time.

I will admit that some people, MagicMatic specifically, certainly liked SGA, but generally speaking pretty much no one had SGA even on the radar as a possibility at 6 until Woj tweeted his name out in connection with the Magic unexpectedly right before the draft.

And as BasketballRob said, the most commonly accepted story out there is that Shai got promised by LA early in the process and pretty much shut it down immediately to everyone else.

no, but plenty of people said trade back instead of using it on Bamba. i wont claim to have been pumping up SGA, but i was clamoring for Mikal Bridges

[NavalAviator94]

I think Bamba over SGA is criminal.

I mean with the benefit of hindsight, sure.

But it's not like SGA went with the next pick either. Four more teams passed on him after the Magic. 10 teams passed on him. It's not like taking Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic at the top of the draft.

Say whatever you want about Bamba now, and he's a complete bust to be clear, but he was universally considered by every draft prognosticator to be a superior prospect to SGA at that time.

I will admit that some people, MagicMatic specifically, certainly liked SGA, but generally speaking pretty much no one had SGA even on the radar as a possibility at 6 until Woj tweeted his name out in connection with the Magic unexpectedly right before the draft.

And as BasketballRob said, the most commonly accepted story out there is that Shai got promised by LA early in the process and pretty much shut it down immediately to everyone else.

Lol I say this in jest. Wouldn't we all wish we knew how SGA was going to turn out.

[jonbob17]

Charlotte is off to a 4-12 start. Now, Lamelo missed most of those games, but the deck seems stacked against them to challenge for the playoffs. Will they decide to enter the Wembanyama sweepstakes, and if so how does that sit with newly hired Clifford.

Lakers 3-10....i mean the one team that won't tank, and they are so bad it might not matter.

Hornets, to me , look like prime candidate for sign& trade around $31M of expiring money of Hayward in offseason.

Maybe next year Miles Bridges situation is solved, they still own his rights. It seems like he will avoid jail time.

They should have A LOT of cap space .

Charlotte is in fine position for the future. They have their star in Lamelo, who looks like he will be a 2 way difference maker. Rozier has value. PJ Washington is a nice lob threat with Lamelo. Mark Williams seem like he will be a decent starting big. The fact that he is playing in the G-League is bananas, but that's Clifford. we'll see what happens with Bridges, i don't think he will be suspended too long.

But if Charlotte wants to compete for championships, they really should probably tank. They've got excuses, the Bridges situation, Hayward constantly injured. Signing point guards off the street.

BUT, will the ego of ownership and the stubbornness of Clifford allow for it. What is a 10th place finish going to do for them, get them 1 extra meaningful game. I mean yah, I am sure Clifford can resurrect Mason Plumlee's career and turn him into a 10/10/4, but at what cost to the peak trajectory of the team.

[jonbob17]

I think Bamba over SGA is criminal.

I mean with the benefit of hindsight, sure.

But it's not like SGA went with the next pick either. Four more teams passed on him after the Magic. 10 teams passed on him. It's not like taking Marvin Bagley over Luka Doncic at the top of the draft.

Say whatever you want about Bamba now, and he's a complete bust to be clear, but he was universally considered by every draft prognosticator to be a superior prospect to SGA at that time.

I will admit that some people, MagicMatic specifically, certainly liked SGA, but generally speaking pretty much no one had SGA even on the radar as a possibility at 6 until Woj tweeted his name out in connection with the Magic unexpectedly right before the draft.

And as BasketballRob said, the most commonly accepted story out there is that Shai got promised by LA early in the process and pretty much shut it down immediately to everyone else.

Lol I say this in jest. Wouldn't we all wish we knew how SGA was going to turn out.

I think we are at the point that there is enough evidence for a rule: Draft Kentucky combo guards regardless of what they do in college, because it seems like they all turn out in the NBA. Maybe Cason wallace is this year's diamond in the rough

Next year 2023, they have really high ranked combo guard recruit, DJ Wagner.

[basketballRob]

Sharpe looks like he may end up better than SGA.

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[drsd]

Choosing Fournier/Ibaka over a Prime Dipo and rookie Sabonis is still one of the worst basketball decisions of the last 10 years.

I don't agree that Fournier over Oladipo was a "bad" decision. Only one could be kept, and Fournier was efficient and viewed as cheaper.

But Ibaka (and Biyombo) are train wreck decisions that cost the team 4 years of capacity. Hindsite on Sabonis aside, trading for Ibaka was an all in move to get the team from mediocre to OK. That is not what managment should push chips in for.

Let's look at the 2016-17 Orlando Magic roster.

Payton/Augustin/Watson
Fournier/Meeks/Ross
Gordon/Hezonja
Ibaka/Green
Vučević/Biyombo

That roster fully healthy screams 41-41, and because of injuries did not cross a 30 win threshold.

And then the collapse followed. Yuck.

Look at this compared to the next season where Jonathon Simmons replaced Ibaka. The team was just as bad. So what, Ibaka and Simmons are thus replaceable players? Sad.

..