Who is in your GOAT tier?

[Joao Saraiva]

Voted for the top 5.

They all have an argument.

I guess I can have Hakeem in the discussion as long as we say the GOAT is the best guy in 1 year or something, but I think everything else needs to count even if less weighted and Hakeem stands no chance.

[JordansBulls]

May as well include 97 robert parish to talk how stacked jordan teams were

Except Dwight Howard, Ben Wallace, Shaq, Westbrook were as old as MJ and much younger than Parish who hardly even played. Shaq was even the all star MVP the year before.

You were literally warned a couple of days ago to stop these non-content strawmen arguments.

Warned for derailing the entire thread.

I don’t get how this is baiting but someone bringing up Robert Parish on the Bulls isn’t when Parish hardly played and was over 40. At least the guys I mentioned and said was the same age as MJ or younger and won league mvp, finals mvp, Dpoy. It’s almost like a prejudice thing it seems to me if only one side gets blamed and the other doesn’t if one started it. It also seems only an issue with Lebron teams but no one gets banned if someone brings up 1-9 for MJ when he had no stars on his squad but Lebron being predicted 1st and 2nd in odds to win it all is no problem or no issue then that is trolling or baiting. I don’t get it. Some other posts people called me names and they got a warning. I’ve never called anyone ever any names on the site but I get treated like I am Emmitt Till. I don’t think anyone here is prejudice I’m just saying it feels I am getting treated that way when someone says something and I respond but then I get the blame when all my talk is basketball and nothing more. Others can make personal claims and nothing happens but I get punished.

[AEnigma]

Except Dwight Howard, Ben Wallace, Shaq, Westbrook were as old as MJ and much younger than Parish who hardly even played. Shaq was even the all star MVP the year before.

You were literally warned a couple of days ago to stop these non-content strawmen arguments.

Warned for derailing the entire thread.

I don’t get how this is baiting but someone bringing up Robert Parish on the Bulls isn’t when Parish hardly played and was over 40.

Because it is never a real argument and only ever a sarcastic retort to this nonsense.

At least the guys I mentioned and said was the same age as MJ or younger and won league mvp, finals mvp, Dpoy. It’s almost like a prejudice thing it seems to me if only one side gets blamed and the other doesn’t if one started it.

You might be the only person on the site who wants to pretend players are the exact same five or even ten years after their peak, despite any and all evidence to the contrary.

It also seems only an issue with Lebron teams but no one gets banned if someone brings up 1-9 for MJ when he had no stars on his squad but Lebron being predicted 1st and 2nd in odds to win it all is no problem or no issue then that is trolling or baiting. I don’t get it.

Because Vegas odds are significantly based on how people are betting. The fact a lot of dummies thought the addition of Westbrook qualified as the creation of a superteam is wholly irrelevant to that “basketball talk” you claim to care so much about.

I’m just saying it feels I am getting treated that way when someone says something and I respond but then I get the blame when all my talk is basketball and nothing more. Others can make personal claims and nothing happens but I get punished.

I would love for you to talk basketball, but instead you talk about stuff like awards won ten years prior or whose teams won more at home.

[PaulieWal]

I don’t get how this is baiting but someone bringing up Robert Parish on the Bulls isn’t when Parish hardly played and was over 40. At least the guys I mentioned and said was the same age as MJ or younger and won league mvp, finals mvp, Dpoy. It’s almost like a prejudice thing it seems to me if only one side gets blamed and the other doesn’t if one started it. It also seems only an issue with Lebron teams but no one gets banned if someone brings up 1-9 for MJ when he had no stars on his squad but Lebron being predicted 1st and 2nd in odds to win it all is no problem or no issue then that is trolling or baiting. I don’t get it. Some other posts people called me names and they got a warning. I’ve never called anyone ever any names on the site but I get treated like I am Emmitt Till. I don’t think anyone here is prejudice I’m just saying it feels I am getting treated that way when someone says something and I respond but then I get the blame when all my talk is basketball and nothing more. Others can make personal claims and nothing happens but I get punished.

Comparing yourself to Emmitt Till....now I have seen it all on this website.

Frankly, that's absolutely disgusting. Warned for backseat modding.

[prolific passer]

What a turn in this thread. Anyways. An old Robert Parish was probably still better on the bulls then a prime Luck Longley and Bill Wennington.

[Gregoire]

Jordan and Kareem

[Gooner]

Jordan. He is the only one that stands out to me. All the other players can be judged within the context of their eras, Jordan is the bridge, and his era defined the modern NBA.

[70sFan]

Jordan. He is the only one that stands out to me. All the other players can be judged within the context of their eras, Jordan is the bridge, and his era defined the modern NBA.

That's your opinion, which is highly subjective, probably because you lived during Jordan's era and people always overstate the importance of their childhood's eras.

[migya]

Jordan. He is the only one that stands out to me. All the other players can be judged within the context of their eras, Jordan is the bridge, and his era defined the modern NBA.

That's your opinion, which is highly subjective, probably because you lived during Jordan's era and people always overstate the importance of their childhood's eras.

Likely it's because of the facts which have been stated before.

[70sFan]

Jordan. He is the only one that stands out to me. All the other players can be judged within the context of their eras, Jordan is the bridge, and his era defined the modern NBA.

That's your opinion, which is highly subjective, probably because you lived during Jordan's era and people always overstate the importance of their childhood's eras.

Likely it's because of the facts which have been stated before.

What facts? That Jordan is untouchable? We have no facts showing that Jordan is clearly more impactful than the other greatest players ever.

Or that the 1990s defined the modern era? That's just purely subjective and arbitrary opinion.

[Gooner]

Jordan. He is the only one that stands out to me. All the other players can be judged within the context of their eras, Jordan is the bridge, and his era defined the modern NBA.

That's your opinion, which is highly subjective, probably because you lived during Jordan's era and people always overstate the importance of their childhood's eras.

That's what we do here, we give our opinions. This opinion in particular is shared by many.

[70sFan]

Jordan. He is the only one that stands out to me. All the other players can be judged within the context of their eras, Jordan is the bridge, and his era defined the modern NBA.

That's your opinion, which is highly subjective, probably because you lived during Jordan's era and people always overstate the importance of their childhood's eras.

That's what we do here, we give our opinions. This opinion in particular is shared by many.

Sure, but there are opinions which have more solid fundamentals than the others.

[migya]

That's your opinion, which is highly subjective, probably because you lived during Jordan's era and people always overstate the importance of their childhood's eras.

Likely it's because of the facts which have been stated before.

What facts? That Jordan is untouchable? We have no facts showing that Jordan is clearly more impactful than the other greatest players ever.

Or that the 1990s defined the modern era? That's just purely subjective and arbitrary opinion.

For an old guy 70s fan you sure haven't interpreted what you've seen, if you in fact have seen the nba for that long, and seen it every year.

I'll just say it once here; Jordan carried his team and"always" beat the opposition one he reached the top and against many of the top 10-15 greatest players of all-time. He carried the scoring load on his team every year. He was consistently great on both ends from start to finish of his career. Amazingly he left for two years and returned to the best once again every season. He is the best stat wise and certainly viewing wise.

[Gooner]

Likely it's because of the facts which have been stated before.

What facts? That Jordan is untouchable? We have no facts showing that Jordan is clearly more impactful than the other greatest players ever.

Or that the 1990s defined the modern era? That's just purely subjective and arbitrary opinion.

For an old guy 70s fan you sure haven't interpreted what you've seen, if you in fact have seen the nba for that long, and seen it every year.

I'll just say it once here; Jordan carried his team and"always" beat the opposition one he reached the top and against many of the top 10-15 greatest players of all-time. He carried the scoring load on his team every year. He was consistently great on both ends from start to finish of his career. Amazingly he left for two years and returned to the best once again every season. He is the best stat wise and certainly viewing wise.

I thought he was old as well, but he is actually a young guy.

[70sFan]

Likely it's because of the facts which have been stated before.

What facts? That Jordan is untouchable? We have no facts showing that Jordan is clearly more impactful than the other greatest players ever.

Or that the 1990s defined the modern era? That's just purely subjective and arbitrary opinion.

For an old guy 70s fan you sure haven't interpreted what you've seen, if you in fact have seen the nba for that long, and seen it every year.

I'll just say it once here; Jordan carried his team and"always" beat the opposition one he reached the top and against many of the top 10-15 greatest players of all-time. He carried the scoring load on his team every year. He was consistently great on both ends from start to finish of his career. Amazingly he left for two years and returned to the best once again every season. He is the best stat wise and certainly viewing wise.

I'm not old at all

To the second paragraph, it's all true but you can say this about every other top 5 player ever. We're comparing him to Russell or Kareem, not Demar Derozan.

[HeartBreakKid]

Likely it's because of the facts which have been stated before.

What facts? That Jordan is untouchable? We have no facts showing that Jordan is clearly more impactful than the other greatest players ever.

Or that the 1990s defined the modern era? That's just purely subjective and arbitrary opinion.

For an old guy 70s fan you sure haven't interpreted what you've seen, if you in fact have seen the nba for that long, and seen it every year.

I'll just say it once here; Jordan carried his team and"always" beat the opposition one he reached the top and against many of the top 10-15 greatest players of all-time. He carried the scoring load on his team every year. He was consistently great on both ends from start to finish of his career. Amazingly he left for two years and returned to the best once again every season. He is the best stat wise and certainly viewing wise.

He's not the only player to consistently beat his opposition. Him having the best stats is somewhat debatable - him having the the best style visually...is incredibly subjective.

The 90s does not define the current era at all. You're letting your age bubble yourself. People who are 15 years old do not care about the 90s and would hardly see any similarities to today's game if they saw a game from 1992.

You should accept the same way you dismiss eras before your time that people will do the same with yours. There is nothing special about the time you grew up in.

[Gooner]

What facts? That Jordan is untouchable? We have no facts showing that Jordan is clearly more impactful than the other greatest players ever.

Or that the 1990s defined the modern era? That's just purely subjective and arbitrary opinion.

For an old guy 70s fan you sure haven't interpreted what you've seen, if you in fact have seen the nba for that long, and seen it every year.

I'll just say it once here; Jordan carried his team and"always" beat the opposition one he reached the top and against many of the top 10-15 greatest players of all-time. He carried the scoring load on his team every year. He was consistently great on both ends from start to finish of his career. Amazingly he left for two years and returned to the best once again every season. He is the best stat wise and certainly viewing wise.

He's not the only player to consistently beat his opposition. Him having the best stats is somewhat debatable - him having the the best style visually...is incredibly subjective.

The 90s does not define the current era at all. You're letting your age bubble yourself. People who are 15 years old do not care about the 90s and would hardly see any similarities to today's game if they saw a game from 1992.

You should accept the same way you dismiss eras before your time that people will do the same with yours. There is nothing special about the time you grew up in.

It's not about age for me at all, and it's not about similarities between eras, it's the fact that Jordan and his generation of players made the NBA bigger, and a lot of players and everybody involved with the NBA are benefitting from that today.

[Dutchball97]

For an old guy 70s fan you sure haven't interpreted what you've seen, if you in fact have seen the nba for that long, and seen it every year.

I'll just say it once here; Jordan carried his team and"always" beat the opposition one he reached the top and against many of the top 10-15 greatest players of all-time. He carried the scoring load on his team every year. He was consistently great on both ends from start to finish of his career. Amazingly he left for two years and returned to the best once again every season. He is the best stat wise and certainly viewing wise.

He's not the only player to consistently beat his opposition. Him having the best stats is somewhat debatable - him having the the best style visually...is incredibly subjective.

The 90s does not define the current era at all. You're letting your age bubble yourself. People who are 15 years old do not care about the 90s and would hardly see any similarities to today's game if they saw a game from 1992.

You should accept the same way you dismiss eras before your time that people will do the same with yours. There is nothing special about the time you grew up in.

It's not about age for me at all, and it's not about similarities between eras, it's the fact that Jordan and his generation of players made the NBA bigger, and a lot of players and everybody involved with the NBA are benefitting from that today.

What about George Mikan then? First star player in the league who set the tone for decades to come by showing a blueprint of a team built around a dominant center, which was the primary way of building succesful teams untill very recently. Without Mikan there is no Russell, no Wilt, no Kareem, no Hakeem, no Shaq, no Duncan, no Moses, no Robinson etc etc. This isn't as much the case in recent years because of the 3-point revolution but guess what? Mikan introduced the 3-point shot to professional basketball as ABA commissioner. That's not even mentioning being responsible for the lane being widened, the shotclock being introduced and defensive goaltending to be banned.

Jordan was massive for basketball but he didn't increase the popularity of the game on his own. Without Magic and Bird there is no way for MJ to become the global icon he is today. Shouldn't we also extend the same courtesy of praise to the stars of the 60s who grew the sport from niche entertainment to a succesful and sustainable pro league before the problems of the mid-late 70s eroded most of that popularity for a brief period? What about the players who came after MJ and his contemporaries who continue to grow the game, especially on an international level?

I also have MJ as my GOAT but that's because of how consistently dominant he was throughout his career, not because of his impact on the game. He didn't even really change the way the game was played, at best you could say he inspired a generation of heroball wings that went extinct almost as quickly as they appeared because MJ's style can't be emulated succesfully by just about anyone.

[70sFan]

For an old guy 70s fan you sure haven't interpreted what you've seen, if you in fact have seen the nba for that long, and seen it every year.

I'll just say it once here; Jordan carried his team and"always" beat the opposition one he reached the top and against many of the top 10-15 greatest players of all-time. He carried the scoring load on his team every year. He was consistently great on both ends from start to finish of his career. Amazingly he left for two years and returned to the best once again every season. He is the best stat wise and certainly viewing wise.

He's not the only player to consistently beat his opposition. Him having the best stats is somewhat debatable - him having the the best style visually...is incredibly subjective.

The 90s does not define the current era at all. You're letting your age bubble yourself. People who are 15 years old do not care about the 90s and would hardly see any similarities to today's game if they saw a game from 1992.

You should accept the same way you dismiss eras before your time that people will do the same with yours. There is nothing special about the time you grew up in.

It's not about age for me at all, and it's not about similarities between eras, it's the fact that Jordan and his generation of players made the NBA bigger, and a lot of players and everybody involved with the NBA are benefitting from that today.

The same thing can be said about Magic and Bird... or Julius Erving... or Wilt, Oscar and Russell... or Mikan...

[Jaivl]

What facts? That Jordan is untouchable? We have no facts showing that Jordan is clearly more impactful than the other greatest players ever.

Or that the 1990s defined the modern era? That's just purely subjective and arbitrary opinion.

For an old guy 70s fan you sure haven't interpreted what you've seen, if you in fact have seen the nba for that long, and seen it every year.

I'll just say it once here; Jordan carried his team and"always" beat the opposition one he reached the top and against many of the top 10-15 greatest players of all-time. He carried the scoring load on his team every year. He was consistently great on both ends from start to finish of his career. Amazingly he left for two years and returned to the best once again every season. He is the best stat wise and certainly viewing wise.

I'm not old at all

To the second paragraph, it's all true but you can say this about every other top 5 player ever. We're comparing him to Russell or Kareem, not Demar Derozan.

Not all true. Jordan's teams have never beaten a single top 10-15 player ever in the playoffs*

*1-1 vs Shaq