Better in the Post: Shaq or Kareem?

[No-more-rings]

I’m surprised this is even debated, but yes Kareem was absolutely on the thinner side compared to a guy like Shaq. There’s simply no evidence to think that Kareem could’ve held his own going one on one against Shaq at any point in his career.

[AEnigma]

If only there were any examples of players smaller than Shaq being able to score on him in the post.

Is this why 2000 Shaq gets gassed? A bunch of you thinking he was actually some all-time post defender?

[HeartBreakKid]

I’m surprised this is even debated, but yes Kareem was absolutely on the thinner side compared to a guy like Shaq. There’s simply no evidence to think that Kareem could’ve held his own going one on one against Shaq at any point in his career.

Kareem is like 7'3, so of course he looks thin. Doesn't everyone look thin compared to Shaq?


You keep saying he would get bounced around, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Relative to who...? Kareem is still a gigantic center, and it's not like Shaq was literally unstoppable. Are you saying that every center who held his ground against Shaq was built like Ben Wallace? If not, why do you think Kareem does worse than other centers?

[falcolombardi]

I’m surprised this is even debated, but yes Kareem was absolutely on the thinner side compared to a guy like Shaq. There’s simply no evidence to think that Kareem could’ve held his own going one on one against Shaq at any point in his career.

Most players who defended shaq directly were thinner than him and that didnt stop some players and teams from defending shaq effectively enough

Kareem also has a lenght advantage on shaq to compensate the strenght difference a bit

[No-more-rings]

If only there were any examples of players smaller than Shaq being able to score on him in the post.

Is this why 2000 Shaq gets gassed? A bunch of you thinking he was actually some all-time post defender?

Shaq eventually had conditioning issues because he eventually got too fat and out of shape. Not really relevant to whether Kareem could somehow keep Shaq out of the paint. Kareem could probably get his too against Shaq, but Kareem is probably going to foul out if were ever the main defender on him.

[No-more-rings]

I’m surprised this is even debated, but yes Kareem was absolutely on the thinner side compared to a guy like Shaq. There’s simply no evidence to think that Kareem could’ve held his own going one on one against Shaq at any point in his career.

Most players who defended shaq directly were thinner than him and that didnt stop some players and teams from defending shaq effectively enough

Kareem also has a lenght advantage on shaq to compensate the strenght difference a bit

Who really ever had a lot of success doing that? Duncan? Yao? Sabonis? All bigger and stronger guys than Kareem. And even then they usually had a lot of trouble.

[No-more-rings]

I’m surprised this is even debated, but yes Kareem was absolutely on the thinner side compared to a guy like Shaq. There’s simply no evidence to think that Kareem could’ve held his own going one on one against Shaq at any point in his career.

Kareem is like 7'3, so of course he looks thin. Doesn't everyone look thin compared to Shaq?


You keep saying he would get bounced around, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Relative to who...? Kareem is still a gigantic center, and it's not like Shaq was literally unstoppable. Are you saying that every center who held his ground against Shaq was built like Ben Wallace? If not, why do you think Kareem does worse than other centers?

7’2 while Shaq was listed at 7’1 himself. Being really really tall doesn’t make you “gigantic”.

Like the photos and footage don’t lie. We’ve never seen Kareem have to guard something like Shaq in the post, so we can’t just assume he’d do well. On tape, he looks like a tall guy with a good wing span, that can protect the paint. Not really a guy known for using his size and strength to punish anybody.

[falcolombardi]

I’m surprised this is even debated, but yes Kareem was absolutely on the thinner side compared to a guy like Shaq. There’s simply no evidence to think that Kareem could’ve held his own going one on one against Shaq at any point in his career.

Kareem is like 7'3, so of course he looks thin. Doesn't everyone look thin compared to Shaq?


You keep saying he would get bounced around, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Relative to who...? Kareem is still a gigantic center, and it's not like Shaq was literally unstoppable. Are you saying that every center who held his ground against Shaq was built like Ben Wallace? If not, why do you think Kareem does worse than other centers?

7’2 while Shaq was listed at 7’1 himself. Being really really tall doesn’t make you “gigantic”.

Like the photos and footage don’t lie. We’ve never seen Kareem have to guard something like Shaq in the post, so we can’t just assume he’d do well. On tape, he looks like a tall guy with a good wing span, that can protect the paint. Not really a guy known for using his size and strength to punish anybody.

The 77 series vs blazers

Kareem handles a huge guy as walton (who yes, is still not shaq) fairly comfortably on both ends.

Walton has to rely on finess fade back jumpshots against kareem

[No-more-rings]

Kareem is like 7'3, so of course he looks thin. Doesn't everyone look thin compared to Shaq?


You keep saying he would get bounced around, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Relative to who...? Kareem is still a gigantic center, and it's not like Shaq was literally unstoppable. Are you saying that every center who held his ground against Shaq was built like Ben Wallace? If not, why do you think Kareem does worse than other centers?

7’2 while Shaq was listed at 7’1 himself. Being really really tall doesn’t make you “gigantic”.

Like the photos and footage don’t lie. We’ve never seen Kareem have to guard something like Shaq in the post, so we can’t just assume he’d do well. On tape, he looks like a tall guy with a good wing span, that can protect the paint. Not really a guy known for using his size and strength to punish anybody.

The 77 series vs blazers

Kareem handles a huge guy as walton (who yes, is still not shaq) fairly comfortably on both ends.

Walton has to rely on finess fade back jumpshots against kareem

Walton was not a huge guy lol. Nor was he a particularly strong scorer anyhow.

You can’t make this stuff up.

[HeartBreakKid]

I’m surprised this is even debated, but yes Kareem was absolutely on the thinner side compared to a guy like Shaq. There’s simply no evidence to think that Kareem could’ve held his own going one on one against Shaq at any point in his career.

Kareem is like 7'3, so of course he looks thin. Doesn't everyone look thin compared to Shaq?


You keep saying he would get bounced around, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Relative to who...? Kareem is still a gigantic center, and it's not like Shaq was literally unstoppable. Are you saying that every center who held his ground against Shaq was built like Ben Wallace? If not, why do you think Kareem does worse than other centers?

7’2 while Shaq was listed at 7’1 himself. Being really really tall doesn’t make you “gigantic”.

Like the photos and footage don’t lie. We’ve never seen Kareem have to guard something like Shaq in the post, so we can’t just assume he’d do well. On tape, he looks like a tall guy with a good wing span, that can protect the paint. Not really a guy known for using his size and strength to punish anybody.

yes it does. I think your perspective is incredibly narrow if you think Kareem is not a gigantic center...do you think he really just dominated by the grace of the skyhook? He beat people because he was way bigger than them.

This reminds me of that dude who said Yao Ming was soft because he looks lanky at 7'6.

Yes, Kareem is slim compared to Shaq, isn't everyone? I'm asking what the hell do you mean by Kareem would get pushed around? Relative to who (you did not answer). You can't honestly think that guys like Sabonis are the only guys who did not get "destroyed" by him.



Kareem is comparable size to Mutumbo. Mutumbo fouled out once in their Philly vs Laker series - Shaq...also fouled out. You said something like "Kareem would get his but he would foul out" - Shaq is insanely foul prone, he would foul out also". Saying Kareem would just get his is like a lazy way of trying to look moderate. You likely have the image of Shaq bulldozing some dude over while Kareem is doing a soft move 12 feet from the basket and not thinking that Kareem could just as easily send Shaq to the bench.



It sounds like you're doing that thing we all do where you get a few images of how a player plays and projecting that as the norm. Shaq did not just score on anyone at will. Many great centers, including all time great defenders, guarded Shaq and were not like fouling out every game or what ever. Also - you're saying pictures don't lie but dropped Tim Duncan in the same class as 300+ pounders. Like Tim Duncan would throw around Kareem Abdul-Jabar. lol

[ShaqAttac]

My numbers include off-ball movement and deep position establishments. I only separated post play from putbacks, transition points, cuts and open layups created from someone else than Shaq. My numbers are not only isolation attempts, but things like finishing lobs after overplays or deep catches are included. Shaq didn't create much more such shots than Kareem, I think you exaggarate the difference here.

I saw your numbers. Shaq's off-ball efficacy was higher, there was an expected gap in post-up FG%, and in putback FG%. A larger proportion of off-ball stuff, neither was much of a PnR guy and Shaq was more effective over a small sample in transition. They didn't illustrate anything which we haven't already generally agreed upon.

I'm not exaggerating the difference here. I have spent almost the entire time talking about Shaq's offensive rebounding, off-ball action and foul pressure as opposed to the other areas where Kareem excelled, and suggesting that while you could easily take either of them, I prefer Shaq and think of him as slightly more effective for those reasons.

My point is that Shaq's off-ball action is basically strictly related to offensive rebounding, he didn't create much more easy points off-ball than Kareem did.

I agree that offensive rebounding and foul pressure are good reasons to pick Shaq over Kareem. I don't agree it's enough, but it is a strong argument for Shaq. I just think that we need to be very specific about what we're talking about, because most people don't share your definition of "post game" and when you say that Shaq is a better post player, we need to specify what we're talking about. In terms of the casual understanding of "post game", Kareem crushes Shaq.

kareem points better than shaq points rn

[No-more-rings]

Kareem is like 7'3, so of course he looks thin. Doesn't everyone look thin compared to Shaq?


You keep saying he would get bounced around, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Relative to who...? Kareem is still a gigantic center, and it's not like Shaq was literally unstoppable. Are you saying that every center who held his ground against Shaq was built like Ben Wallace? If not, why do you think Kareem does worse than other centers?

7’2 while Shaq was listed at 7’1 himself. Being really really tall doesn’t make you “gigantic”.

Like the photos and footage don’t lie. We’ve never seen Kareem have to guard something like Shaq in the post, so we can’t just assume he’d do well. On tape, he looks like a tall guy with a good wing span, that can protect the paint. Not really a guy known for using his size and strength to punish anybody.

yes it does. I think your perspective is incredibly narrow if you think Kareem is not a gigantic center...do you think he really just dominated by the grace of the skyhook? He beat people because he was way bigger than them.

This reminds me of that dude who said Yao Ming was soft because he looks lanky at 7'6.

Yes, Kareem is slim compared to Shaq, isn't everyone? I'm asking what the hell do you mean by Kareem would get pushed around? Relative to who (you did not answer). You can't honestly think that guys like Sabonis are the only guys who did not get "destroyed" by him.



Kareem is comparable size to Mutumbo. Mutumbo fouled out once in their Philly vs Laker series - Shaq...also fouled out. You said something like "Kareem would get his but he would foul out" - Shaq is insanely foul prone, he would foul out also". Saying Kareem would just get his is like a lazy way of trying to look moderate. You likely have the image of Shaq bulldozing some dude over while Kareem is doing a soft move 12 feet from the basket and not thinking that Kareem could just as easily send Shaq to the bench.



It sounds like you're doing that thing we all do where you get a few images of how a player plays and projecting that as the norm. Shaq did not just score on anyone at will. Many great centers, including all time great defenders, guarded Shaq and were not like fouling out every game or what ever. Also - you're saying pictures don't lie but dropped Tim Duncan in the same class as 300+ pounders.

Ignoring your useless ad hominem attacks…a few points.

Mutumbo: Comparable size to Kareem, do you really need reminding how that series went for Deke? Mutumbo was a strictly defense player by that point, and still got handled. Kareem was nowhere in Mutumbo’s class as a defender anyhow.

Duncan: He did well at times, i’m not putting him in a 300 lb class, but Duncan was absolutely stronger and a much better post defender than Kareem. Not sure why you need to be reminded that.

I’m not using a few images or whatever you’re saying. It’s based on all the tape i’ve ever watched of both.

When you ask relative to who, i’m just saying both would get theirs against each other, but Kareem is going to have a harder time. It doesn’t neccesarily mean he’s a better player, but a horrible matchup I believe.

[falcolombardi]

7’2 while Shaq was listed at 7’1 himself. Being really really tall doesn’t make you “gigantic”.

Like the photos and footage don’t lie. We’ve never seen Kareem have to guard something like Shaq in the post, so we can’t just assume he’d do well. On tape, he looks like a tall guy with a good wing span, that can protect the paint. Not really a guy known for using his size and strength to punish anybody.

yes it does. I think your perspective is incredibly narrow if you think Kareem is not a gigantic center...do you think he really just dominated by the grace of the skyhook? He beat people because he was way bigger than them.

This reminds me of that dude who said Yao Ming was soft because he looks lanky at 7'6.

Yes, Kareem is slim compared to Shaq, isn't everyone? I'm asking what the hell do you mean by Kareem would get pushed around? Relative to who (you did not answer). You can't honestly think that guys like Sabonis are the only guys who did not get "destroyed" by him.



Kareem is comparable size to Mutumbo. Mutumbo fouled out once in their Philly vs Laker series - Shaq...also fouled out. You said something like "Kareem would get his but he would foul out" - Shaq is insanely foul prone, he would foul out also". Saying Kareem would just get his is like a lazy way of trying to look moderate. You likely have the image of Shaq bulldozing some dude over while Kareem is doing a soft move 12 feet from the basket and not thinking that Kareem could just as easily send Shaq to the bench.



It sounds like you're doing that thing we all do where you get a few images of how a player plays and projecting that as the norm. Shaq did not just score on anyone at will. Many great centers, including all time great defenders, guarded Shaq and were not like fouling out every game or what ever. Also - you're saying pictures don't lie but dropped Tim Duncan in the same class as 300+ pounders.

Ignoring your useless ad hominem attacks…a few points.

Mutumbo: Comparable size to Kareem, do you really need reminding how that series went for Deke? Mutumbo was a strictly defense player by that point, and still got handled. Kareem was nowhere in Mutumbo’s class as a defender anyhow.

Duncan: He did well at times, i’m not putting him in a 300 lb class, but Duncan was absolutely stronger and a much better post defender than Kareem. Not sure why you need to be reminded that.

I’m not using a few images or whatever you’re saying. It’s based on all the tape i’ve ever watched of both.

When you ask relative to who, i’m just saying both would get theirs against each other, but Kareem is going to have a harder time. It doesn’t neccesarily mean he’s a better player, but a horrible matchup I believe.

Are we gonna pretend mutombo was not 35 years old going against peak shaq?

[DraymondGold]

On the topic of peak Kareem, does anyone have any links to full quarters/halves/games for peak Kareem (1977 or 1974, preferably postseason)?

There used to be a full game on YouTube of the Lakers vs the Blazers in the 77 playoffs, but that appears to be no longer available

Kareem is like 7'3, so of course he looks thin. Doesn't everyone look thin compared to Shaq?


You keep saying he would get bounced around, I'm not sure what you mean by that. Relative to who...? Kareem is still a gigantic center, and it's not like Shaq was literally unstoppable. Are you saying that every center who held his ground against Shaq was built like Ben Wallace? If not, why do you think Kareem does worse than other centers?

7’2 while Shaq was listed at 7’1 himself. Being really really tall doesn’t make you “gigantic”.

Like the photos and footage don’t lie. We’ve never seen Kareem have to guard something like Shaq in the post, so we can’t just assume he’d do well. On tape, he looks like a tall guy with a good wing span, that can protect the paint. Not really a guy known for using his size and strength to punish anybody.

yes it does. I think your perspective is incredibly narrow if you think Kareem is not a gigantic center...do you think he really just dominated by the grace of the skyhook? He beat people because he was way bigger than them.

This reminds me of that dude who said Yao Ming was soft because he looks lanky at 7'6.

Yes, Kareem is slim compared to Shaq, isn't everyone? I'm asking what the hell do you mean by Kareem would get pushed around? Relative to who (you did not answer). You can't honestly think that guys like Sabonis are the only guys who did not get "destroyed" by him.



Kareem is comparable size to Mutumbo. Mutumbo fouled out once in their Philly vs Laker series - Shaq...also fouled out. You said something like "Kareem would get his but he would foul out" - Shaq is insanely foul prone, he would foul out also". Saying Kareem would just get his is like a lazy way of trying to look moderate. You likely have the image of Shaq bulldozing some dude over while Kareem is doing a soft move 12 feet from the basket and not thinking that Kareem could just as easily send Shaq to the bench.



It sounds like you're doing that thing we all do where you get a few images of how a player plays and projecting that as the norm. Shaq did not just score on anyone at will. Many great centers, including all time great defenders, guarded Shaq and were not like fouling out every game or what ever. Also - you're saying pictures don't lie but dropped Tim Duncan in the same class as 300+ pounders. Like Tim Duncan would throw around Kareem Abdul-Jabar. lol

Re: the height conversation, Shaq has been quoted saying he’s a hair over 6 foot 11 inches (without shoes).

Meanwhile, 70sFan’s historical record collections usually say Kareem is a hair under 7’ 2” without shoes (https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/838e08/oc_how_rare_are_true_7_footers_in_the_nba_what/). Not that height is everything (it’s certainly not), but I thought some more accurate figures would help.

Personally, I’m open to the idea that Shaq is a worse matchup in terms of man defense for Kareem than the reverse. But I tend to think man defense is overrated relative to team defense, and I don’t think it’s even a question that peak Kareem’s the better overall defender.

[70sFan]

I’m surprised this is even debated, but yes Kareem was absolutely on the thinner side compared to a guy like Shaq. There’s simply no evidence to think that Kareem could’ve held his own going one on one against Shaq at any point in his career.

Your pictures missed the most important thing in the post - legs. You can see that Kareem had quite well developed quads and his legs is where most of his mass was concentrated.

Sure, Kareem was definitely thinner than Shaq, nobody denied that. It doesn't mean he'd be completely hopeless. He faced Wilt and Gilmore after all, they didn't make him look hopeless.

Who really ever had a lot of success doing that? Duncan? Yao? Sabonis? All bigger and stronger guys than Kareem. And even then they usually had a lot of trouble.

Duncan absolutely wasn't bigger than Kareem. This is what I'm talking about - you lack perspective how huge Kareem was...

We’ve never seen Kareem have to guard something like Shaq in the post, so we can’t just assume he’d do well.

He played against two strongest players ever, that should count for something. Of course, different officiating and all, but still...

Kareem is comparable size to Mutumbo.

Peak Kareem was bigger than Mutombo.

Kareem was nowhere in Mutumbo’s class as a defender anyhow.

Mutombo wasn't a great post defender though and he had a smaller lower body. Even smaller players than Shaq often pushed him around in the post.

[70sFan]

On the topic of peak Kareem, does anyone have any links to full quarters/halves/games for peak Kareem (1977 or 1974, preferably postseason)?

There used to be a full game on YouTube of the Lakers vs the Blazers in the 77 playoffs, but that appears to be no longer available .

I do, I will post them here tomorrow.

[tsherkin]

I’m surprised this is even debated, but yes Kareem was absolutely on the thinner side compared to a guy like Shaq. There’s simply no evidence to think that Kareem could’ve held his own going one on one against Shaq at any point in his career.

a) I don't think anyone is debating that Kareem might have some trouble guarding Shaq 1v1. That's just physics. The thing is, the reverse would also be true. He'd pull Shaq out of his comfort zones, attack him from range... young enough Kareem even had a bit of post face-up game that Shaq wasn't accustomed to guarding. Could go left or right, operate on right or left block, like there were a lot of different things which would help Kareem give it back the other way. And don't forget he guarded Lanier and Old Wilt as well... not quite the same, but bullish power centers against whom he wasn't a total doormat. Shaq would eat, for sure, but it's not like Kareem wasn't going to provide resistance on either side of that matchup.

[tsherkin]

Well, as always it would be important to take these numbers in context. Shaq peaked at +8.3 rTS% in 2003, which is very impressive number. Kareem beat this value 3 times in 1970-79 period, as well as having two another seasons at +8.2% (not to mention 1980 and 1981 with rookie/sophomore Magic).

I know that comparing to league average isn't always perfect, but we know that it was definitely harder to score in efficient way in the 1970s than in Shaq's prime. Kareem peaked higher in terms of scoring efficiency and I see no reason to believe that it wouldn't hold up in the early 2000s.

I see what you're saying, but Kareem didn't really peak higher than Shaq until his volume came down. His only season more than +0.1% over a Shaq prime season was in 79, when he was a 23.8 ppg scorer. It was close all the way through otherwise. And lest you forget, illegal defense was removed in 2000... after Shaq's peak season and after a career facing Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Mutombo and so forth, so that particular element he raised doesn't actually count as far as the eased defensive rules or competition.

I object not to the idea that one might select Kareem here, but falco dropped these bombs, remember:

Shaq was not in the same planet as kareem efficiency wise, i wouldnt group them like that

This is factually incorrect.

Shaq and duncan efficiency are way closer than shaq and kareem

[/quote]

This is also factually incorrect.

True shooting in shaq era was higher, there was more spacing and easier rules for offense (illegal defense for main one)

The illegal defense removal, as noted, didn't come into play until after Shaq's peak season.


As far as relative stuff... I don't think Karem's pure efficiency would rise as league average rose a little in Shaq's hey-day. Remember, league average in 77 was like 51.1, in 79 it was 53.0. In 1998? 52.4. In 1995, 54.3. In 2000, 52.3.

The true shooting environment wasn't THAT different. In the late 90s, pace slowed to a grinding halt and efficiency began to drop off notably, and carried forth into the early 2000s. Shaq did a bunch of high/efficient scoring in efficiency environments very similar to Kareem's pre-Magic days and at paces dramatically slower than basically KAJ's whole career, which is also a relevant factor.

The idea that Kareem was in a whole "other world" than Shaq in terms of efficiency isn't accurate. You can argue that KAJ would translate very well into Shaq's prime era, and I'd support that all day, including that he's probably be a 58-60% TS guy. Making the same shots, looking just as good in isos and those other sets we have discussed, making his free throws at a competent rate, etc. But Shaq's raw physicality and power game was very consistent and very efficient and very close to Kareem, particularly prior to having the benefit of a 104-possession Lakers team with great spacing and Magic Johnson.

[70sFan]

Well, as always it would be important to take these numbers in context. Shaq peaked at +8.3 rTS% in 2003, which is very impressive number. Kareem beat this value 3 times in 1970-79 period, as well as having two another seasons at +8.2% (not to mention 1980 and 1981 with rookie/sophomore Magic).

I know that comparing to league average isn't always perfect, but we know that it was definitely harder to score in efficient way in the 1970s than in Shaq's prime. Kareem peaked higher in terms of scoring efficiency and I see no reason to believe that it wouldn't hold up in the early 2000s.

I see what you're saying, but Kareem didn't really peak higher than Shaq until his volume came down. His only season more than +0.1% over a Shaq prime season was in 79, when he was a 23.8 ppg scorer. It was close all the way through otherwise. And lest you forget, illegal defense was removed in 2000... after Shaq's peak season and after a career facing Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Mutombo and so forth, so that particular element he raised doesn't actually count as far as the eased defensive rules or competition.

I object not to the idea that one might select Kareem here, but falco dropped these bombs, remember:

Shaq was not in the same planet as kareem efficiency wise, i wouldnt group them like that

This is factually incorrect.

Shaq and duncan efficiency are way closer than shaq and kareem

This is also factually incorrect.

True shooting in shaq era was higher, there was more spacing and easier rules for offense (illegal defense for main one)

The illegal defense removal, as noted, didn't come into play until after Shaq's peak season.


As far as relative stuff... I don't think Karem's pure efficiency would rise as league average rose a little in Shaq's hey-day. Remember, league average in 77 was like 51.1, in 79 it was 53.0. In 1998? 52.4. In 1995, 54.3. In 2000, 52.3.

The true shooting environment wasn't THAT different. In the late 90s, pace slowed to a grinding halt and efficiency began to drop off notably, and carried forth into the early 2000s. Shaq did a bunch of high/efficient scoring in efficiency environments very similar to Kareem's pre-Magic days and at paces dramatically slower than basically KAJ's whole career, which is also a relevant factor.

The idea that Kareem was in a whole "other world" than Shaq in terms of efficiency isn't accurate. You can argue that KAJ would translate very well into Shaq's prime era, and I'd support that all day, including that he's probably be a 58-60% TS guy. Making the same shots, looking just as good in isos and those other sets we have discussed, making his free throws at a competent rate, etc. But Shaq's raw physicality and power game was very consistent and very efficient and very close to Kareem, particularly prior to having the benefit of a 104-possession Lakers team with great spacing and Magic Johnson.[/quote]
As I said, being a 60+ TS% 30 ppg scorer in the 1970s is different than in the 2000s. Post players have far more space, they could generate more efficient shots and they were allowed to be more physical on offensive end. Agree to disagree, but to me Kareem was clearly more efficient scorer than Shaq when you take everything into consideraiton.

[tsherkin]

[q
As I said, being a 60+ TS% 30 ppg scorer in the 1970s is different than in the 2000s. Post players have far more space, they could generate more efficient shots and they were allowed to be more physical on offensive end. Agree to disagree, but to me Kareem was clearly more efficient scorer than Shaq when you take everything into consideraiton.

Right, but Shaq only played a couple of relevant seasons in the 2000s, so this isn't a material argument where Shaq was concerned.

He was drafted in 1992. He had his peak in 2000. He had about 2 or 3 more relevant seasons as a high-volume scorer before that last season in LA with Malone and Payton, then to Miami to be #2 to Wade.

And again, "clearly more efficient" is fine. Kareem has an evident efficiency advantage because he was a legendary shot maker and a competent FT shooter. Shaq shot himself in the foot with his inability at the line, no doubt.

He was demonstrably not, however, "in a whole other world" in terms of efficiency. That's just hyperbole.