Bol Bol Discussion Thread: Long-Term Starter or Reserve?

[tleikheen]

The lateral quickness issue and the rebounding issue in terms of not boxing out and ball watching

Bol is ballwatching so well he's tied Carter for most rpg in 3 less mpg as a starter..

[VFX]

The lateral quickness issue and the rebounding issue in terms of not boxing out and ball watching

Bol is ballwatching so well he's tied Carter for most rpg in 3 less mpg as a starter..

Is Bol deserving of being a starter? Yes.

Does he work in a starting lineup with Franz/Paolo/Carter? No.

Also, none of those guys are coming off the bench.

[tleikheen]

Does he work in a starting lineup with Franz/Paolo/Carter? No.

Banchero,Wagner and Carter will be able to compete offensively but defensively they'll never be competive on the defensive side of the ball. Both Banchero and Carter will never deter attacks to the rim as they lack verticality and also lack lateral quickness themselves.
Bol makes up for his lack of lateral quickness with sheer length making up the ground given up. Magic are probably stunned Bol fell into their lap and has become thier best rebounder and shotblocker while also showing them and team mates he's their best shooter as well.
Something has to give .....

[Husky1]

Bols better than WCJ. Like a lot better. If JI ever comes back you trade WCJ for a guard. Start Bol/Isaac at center. Draft Lively or Ware with chicago pick. Or try trade for mark Williams for example. Even wiseman. But I firmly believe we should be using WCJ and his friendly contract to go after a guard. WCJ and Banchero occupy the sad space on the court. Doubt this FO would be so bold though

[tooler]

Bols better than WCJ. Like a lot better. If JI ever comes back you trade WCJ for a guard. Start Bol/Isaac at center. Draft Lively or Ware with chicago pick. Or try trade for mark Williams for example. Even wiseman. But I firmly believe we should be using WCJ and his friendly contract to go after a guard. WCJ and Banchero occupy the sad space on the court. Doubt this FO would be so bold though

That’s a pretty high risk move. We don’t even know if Bol can hold up to an entire season, let alone playing center. A trade seems like the right move though, eventually.

[Skybox]

I can't believe I'm reading this...Bol is good. Really good so far. He's not a Center. He's got ONE thing in common with Centers - he's very tall. He's not better than WCJ at deterring rim attacks. Blocking shots on close-outs on the perimeter and chase downs of people who went by him (or someone else) are very good but not the same thing as protecting the rim. They are good things but not Center things. They are Bo Outlaw things, not Rudy Gobert things. I've posted a lot of WCJ trades because I feel like we could get by with a more limited Center or find a placeholder Center somewhere (more easily than a scoring guard of equal value to WCJ). We don't have a legitimate Center on the team after WCJ...we've been getting decimated in the games he's missed. Isaac might not be a Center either, but he might be. Bol is doing great but he's a 4/sometimes a 3, but not a 5. This is not an attack on Bol...this is an attack on fanboys not knowing what a Center is.

[tleikheen]

.this is an attack on fanboys not knowing what a Center is.

The goal posts have moved on What a Center is ..... True Bol isn't playing Center but he is the guy that offensive players are looking out for when they get in the paint .We've seen alot of times players stop and pass back out when they see Bol in front of the rim . They tend to attack Carter and Bamba being less worried they will stop their drive to the basket.
Poku at OKC is doing the same as Bol in protecting the rim also and he's not a traditional Center either .
It kinda started with Porzingis of the Wiz ,he can be bullied but he anchors the # 8 defense in the NBA right now.
I've already seen that when Bol is playing the Magic are a top 10 defense and when he's not playing one of the worst defenses in the League. Nitpick on Bol but he impacts the Magic defense more than any other player they have.

[Knightro]

Bol Bol is absolutely positively not a center. He blocks shots because he's really long and he chases blocks, but he's physically weak with a high center of gravity. Not a point of attack defender at all.

He's a classic help/weakside help defending forward.

[Husky1]

I can't believe I'm reading this...Bol is good. Really good so far. He's not a Center. He's got ONE thing in common with Centers - he's very tall. He's not better than WCJ at deterring rim attacks. Blocking shots on close-outs on the perimeter and chase downs of people who went by him (or someone else) are very good but not the same thing as protecting the rim. They are good things but not Center things. They are Bo Outlaw things, not Rudy Gobert things. I've posted a lot of WCJ trades because I feel like we could get by with a more limited Center or find a placeholder Center somewhere (more easily than a scoring guard of equal value to WCJ). We don't have a legitimate Center on the team after WCJ...we've been getting decimated in the games he's missed. Isaac might not be a Center either, but he might be. Bol is doing great but he's a 4/sometimes a 3, but not a 5. This is not an attack on Bol...this is an attack on fanboys not knowing what a Center is.

I said we still need to find a defensive centre, whether by trade or draft. I am wayyy lower on WCJ and his ceiling than most here. He is the best chip we have to trade for a shooting guard. We need to balance this roster out. Bol, JI and Paolo can fill in the centre spot until we find one long term. Not Bamba though, he needed to go yesterday. A less bold move would be to trade Bamba for a shooter but the return would not be great.
The options in front of us are to Keep WCJand draft two guards or trade WCJ for a guard, then draft a guard and the best centre in the draft.
Option a) WCJ, George and Black.
Option b ) George , Lively and say a Anfernee Simons

[Bergmaniac]

WCJ is our most impactful defender by some margin. He is been out for 4 games and we have played terrible defense in all of them. Even before his defensive on/off was team's best. Our switch everything defence just doesn't work without him.

[tleikheen]

Bol Bol is absolutely positively not a center.

Man alot of panties are pulled up tight ....... NOBODY ever said he was a Center what has been said and alot of ppl need to rewatch the games to see that Bol is always patrolling around the baseline . And it IS his job to deter and look for blocks when he can get them SAME as Banchero and Carter .Big difference is Bol can actually block shots and Carter and Banchero are to earthbound to get many blocks for themselves or the team.

[tleikheen]

WCJ is our most impactful defender by some margin. He is been out for 4 games and we have played terrible defense in all of them.

ITs so easy to look up ..... The Magic give up 113.2 ppg and the 4 games Carter has missed the Magic gave up 107 points (under),123 pts (over) ,114 pts (even), 107 pts (under) .

Seems the Magic actually played equal or better defense in 3 out of the 4 games without Carter.

[Knightro]

WCJ is our most impactful defender by some margin. He is been out for 4 games and we have played terrible defense in all of them.

ITs so easy to look up ..... The Magic give up 113.2 ppg and the 4 games Carter has missed the Magic gave up 107 points (under),123 pts (over) ,114 pts (even), 107 pts (under) .

Seems the Magic actually played equal or better defense in 3 out of the 4 games without Carter.

No disrespect intended, but I'm not sure you really understand the context surrounding the stats that you're citing. Points per game is not how you judge offense and defense accurately my friend.

#1 - PPG doesn't factor in pace of play. Some games are played much faster than others. Some games are played much slower. If the Magic play a game that has 100 possessions and they give up 100 points, that's 1 point allowed per possession defensively. But if the next game has 110 possessions and they give up 105 points, they gave up 5 more points overall, but they gave up fewer points per possession. They played better defense in game 2 even though they actually gave up more points overall.

#2 - Carter doesn't play 48 minutes of every game. He plays 33 MPG, so there's 15 minutes in every game Carter plays where the Magic could play really good defense when he's on the floor and really bad defense when he's off the floor which can again skew the total points scored totals.

The Magic's DRTG when Wendell Carter Jr is on the floor is 107.3. That's the best on the team by a wide margin.

The Magic's DRTG in the last three games that Carter has missed is 118.2. Really bad.

[Skybox]

Bol Bol is absolutely positively not a center.

Man alot of panties are pulled up tight ....... NOBODY ever said he was a Center what has been said and alot of ppl need to rewatch the games to see that Bol is always patrolling around the baseline . And it IS his job to deter and look for blocks when he can get them SAME as Banchero and Carter .Big difference is Bol can actually block shots and Carter and Banchero are to earthbound to get many blocks for themselves or the team.

Sounds great, but we don’t have an extra spot for “roaming Free Safety”. This is actually a very nice and unexpected problem, to not have a spot in our starting frontcourt for a guy who’s proving to be really valuable. He’s playing like a good starter, but he will not be replacing Paulo or Franz and he can’t really play C. Situationally, with Franz at guard…yes, but that’s not an optimal lineup. If Isaac comes back strong, that’s a lot of versatile length coming off the bench, without even accounting for Bamba and M. Wagner. Good problem and it opens the door to trades.

I freely admit I was wrong about Bol. I said a few times that I didn’t expect him to even get a jersey. It seemed like a “heart and hustle” era transaction, where guys (including Billups) came and went without playing once. Bol has been great, but, for any kind of long term contribution, they’ve got to put him in place to succeed and minimize his weaknesses. He’s been great offensively and very impactful closing out on the perimeter and also chasing down blocks. That’s a 3 or 4 and those are the only other solid starters already here. I hope Mose figures out the best way to deploy this unusual secret weapon in a way that impacts wins, not just his own stats. I’m not saying Bol is selfish or lazy - he’s neither. If one can acknowledge that he’s not a Center, what’s the best way to use him? I say 25mins at 3/4, off the bench

[fendilim]

On a championship team or a deep playoff team, he’d be a reserve. 6th-8th man.

Unless we get a DPOY candidate on our team, Bol isn’t exactly an effective two-way player. He isnt strong enough to guard bigs, nor is he quick enough to guard guards, more often than not, he is a good weak side defender, nonetheless.

[Mc-o]

Bol Bol is absolutely positively not a center.

Man alot of panties are pulled up tight ....... NOBODY ever said he was a Center what has been said and alot of ppl need to rewatch the games to see that Bol is always patrolling around the baseline . And it IS his job to deter and look for blocks when he can get them SAME as Banchero and Carter .Big difference is Bol can actually block shots and Carter and Banchero are to earthbound to get many blocks for themselves or the team.

block shots don’t mean much when you are chasing the blocks , because that means for every block shot there is 5 possessions where you are out of position

[Skybox]

Bol Bol is absolutely positively not a center.

Man alot of panties are pulled up tight ....... NOBODY ever said he was a Center what has been said and alot of ppl need to rewatch the games to see that Bol is always patrolling around the baseline . And it IS his job to deter and look for blocks when he can get them SAME as Banchero and Carter .Big difference is Bol can actually block shots and Carter and Banchero are to earthbound to get many blocks for themselves or the team.

block shots don’t mean much when you are chasing the blocks , because that means for every block shot there is 5 possessions where you are out of position

Honestly, if you're chasing...it's probably because you WERE already out of position...or somebody else was.

WCJ doesn't get blocks (I wish he did-but it's OK), but either did DPOY Marc Gasol...they just negate the other guys opportunity by being in the right place and keeping the adversary in the wrong place. This takes physical strength that wings generally don't have. Some are intense enough (Smart, Suggs?) to fight for a few secs to deny a big, but nobody as slight as Bol can do it regularly.

[msmoore66]

WCJ is our most impactful defender by some margin. He is been out for 4 games and we have played terrible defense in all of them.

ITs so easy to look up ..... The Magic give up 113.2 ppg and the 4 games Carter has missed the Magic gave up 107 points (under),123 pts (over) ,114 pts (even), 107 pts (under) .

Seems the Magic actually played equal or better defense in 3 out of the 4 games without Carter.

No disrespect intended, but I'm not sure you really understand the context surrounding the stats that you're citing. Points per game is not how you judge offense and defense accurately my friend.

#1 - PPG doesn't factor in pace of play. Some games are played much faster than others. Some games are played much slower. If the Magic play a game that has 100 possessions and they give up 100 points, that's 1 point allowed per possession defensively. But if the next game has 110 possessions and they give up 105 points, they gave up 5 more points overall, but they gave up fewer points per possession. They played better defense in game 2 even though they actually gave up more points overall.

#2 - Carter doesn't play 48 minutes of every game. He plays 33 MPG, so there's 15 minutes in every game Carter plays where the Magic could play really good defense when he's on the floor and really bad defense when he's off the floor which can again skew the total points scored totals.

The Magic's DRTG when Wendell Carter Jr is on the floor is 107.3. That's the best on the team by a wide margin.

The Magic's DRTG in the last three games that Carter has missed is 118.2. Really bad.

Maybe this should get pinned somewhere.

[Bergmaniac]

Another disastrous game defensively when Wendell was out. I like Bol, but it was always obvious Wendell is our most important defender by some margin.

[purpleswordfish]

Based on the stats and the eyeball test, there's no reason he shouldn't be part of the 7-8 man rotation. I don't see anyone worthy of stealing his minutes.