2023 NBA Draft

clyde21 · Post #881 » by **clyde21** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:46 am

only players that have made a case imo for #3 so far are Black, Keyonte and GG, but I expect DWH to make a push later and maybe even Cam and Nick Smith when they are ready to play although they might already be behind at this point on the court

Flip is nice but doesn't have the ceiling that a #3 or even top 5 pick should have.

The-Power · Post #882 » by **The-Power** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:11 am

clyde21 wrote:only players that have made a case imo for #3 so far are Black, Keyonte and GG, but I expect DWH to make a push later and maybe even Cam and Nick Smith when they are ready to play although they might already be behind at this point on the court

Flip is nice but doesn't have the ceiling that a #3 or even top 5 pick should have.

What sets GG Jackson apart from Brandon Miller as a prospect in your mind? Is it mostly the age difference that gives him more upside or something about his current profile?

With Black, the question is whether he's going to be the aggressive version of the last three games or the passive version of the first three games going forward. He needs to be aggressive to enter the top 3 conversation for me. And he needs to take enough 3s to keep defenses honest. Because he's only a potential top 3 prospect if he can be a lead ball handler, and he can only be a lead ball handler if he can put enough pressure on defenses to create advantages. But his overall trajectory as well as his FT% clearly have been a positive.

Keyonte has been a positive surprise with his playmaking. And this is much needed because a player of his size needs to be a top-tier scoring threat inside and outside as well as a plus playmaker – or a plus scoring threat and a top-tier playmaker – to warrant being picked this high, especially in a strong draft. The playmaking looks solid enough, now the question is whether he can demonstrate that he can be a potentially elite scorer.

The Freshmen are still clearly finding themselves and adjusting to college. And that's fine. But that also means that it's still wide open for players to make a push. Whether that's Whitmore (who I have the highest hopes for), or Nick Smith, or Whitehead after a poor start. But I am a bit concerned about Whitehead because a player that relies on making a ton of tough shots has very little margin for error in the NBA. If he's just a bit less athletic than expected, or just a bit worse at hitting his shots, then that makes a very big difference for him as a prospect (it's something we're starting to see with R.J. Barrett).

Jarace Walker and Julian Phillips are two players that I very much like but both need to show more to not be hit with the ‘role player’ label that automatically downgrades them compared to (perceived) higher-upside prospects. Same goes for Cason Wallace. Brandon Miller to me is safely in the lottery but tough to see him in the top 5 with his limitations as a creator unless the draft is a lot worse at the top than we expected (possible but at this point still not likely). Kel'el Ware has been clearly outplaying Lively but still isn't a serious threat to be picked in the top half of the lottery.

And there's also not a top-level Sophomore or upperclassman that is intriguing enough to be picked in the top 5 and perhaps not even in the top 10 (let's see) unlike last year with Ivey and Murray. Perhaps I should finally pay closer attention to the Thompson twins and see if they are legit top 5-7 prospects.

PhilBlackson · Post #883 » by **PhilBlackson** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:58 am

clyde21 wrote:only players that have made a case imo for #3 so far are Black, Keyonte and GG, but I expect DWH to make a push later and maybe even Cam and Nick Smith when they are ready to play although they might already be behind at this point on the court

Flip is nice but doesn't have the ceiling that a #3 or even top 5 pick should have.

My wayy too early guess is it will be between Whitmore, Amen or Black (although my gut says he'll be somewhat slept on especially when NS Jr gets going again) for 3rd or at least those would be my early favorites.

buzzkilloton · Post #884 » by **buzzkilloton** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:58 am

Nobody I'm seeing in the NCAA so far should go over Amens freaky athleticism at 3. Black has been the most promising NCAA guy. With Black though we need to see him play like he has in recent games and shoot like he has over the course of the season.

The good thing is alot of people had Smith Jr as the top NCAA guy with Whitmore right up there as well. They both may not deliver but I would expect at least one to be a legit top 5 prospect.

SeattleJazzFan · Post #885 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:30 pm

BostonCouchGM wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Who are the dummies who rank Lively #1 on these recruiting sites.

I at least thought he, Ware and Bona would be lottery picks. But man, guards don't know how to feed them, coaches don't know how to utilize them, and they're competing with upperclassmen bigs that their coaches know and trust which eats into their already limited opportunities for minutes and touches. I still can't see how they'd all fall out of the first though. Too physically gifted and they all seem like good kids. It's really early still. Plenty of time to turn things around, have a strong tournament and test well in the combine/workouts before the draft.

amen. if you're a big in that lively mold, go play for the ignite where you can get 15 ppg off dunks and layups alone.

clyde21 · Post #886 » by **clyde21** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:23 pm

The Power wrote:What sets GG Jackson apart from Brandon Miller as a prospect in your mind? Is it mostly the age difference that gives him more upside or something about his current profile?

the age difference is one aspect - almost two full years is a huge variance. at the same age Miller was playing against 16yr olds. from a bball standpoint, I like GG's athletic profile better, especially how he's built and his frame, I think it'll allow him to scale athletically much better than B Miller long term. i like GG better defensively as well and think eventually he can even pull some mins as a small ball 5, don't think Miller can scale like that physically.

With Black, the question is whether he's going to be the aggressive version of the last three games or the passive version of the first three games going forward. He needs to be aggressive to enter the top 3 conversation for me. And he needs to take enough 3s to keep defenses honest. Because he's only a potential top 3 prospect if he can be a lead ball handler, and he can only be a lead ball handler if he can put enough pressure on defenses to create advantages. But his overall trajectory as well as his FT% clearly have been a positive.

i think Black's biggest question mark for him is his pull game/mid range repertoire. when he penetrates the mid range he's usually left with two options, either continue trying to drive or kicking it out. i want him to develop some type of middy pull up or a reliable turnaround 18 footer, also maybe add a floater in there to give himself options in that space. otherwise I'm bullish on his shooting, passing chops, BBIQ and physical profile. if he can develop a reliable middy game, at least one or two go-to move this year at some point he's firmly #3 for me.

Keyonte has been a positive surprise with his playmaking. And this is much needed because a player of his size needs to be a top-tier scoring threat inside and outside as well as a plus playmaker – or a plus scoring threat and a top-tier playmaker – to warrant being picked this high, especially in a strong draft. The playmaking looks solid enough, now the question is whether he can demonstrate that he can be a potentially elite scorer.

all fair - I think he has shown enough from a scoring standpoint on all 3 levels to be intriguing there, and I'm bullish on his athletic profile, and defensively he's actually been surprisingly good on ball. we'll see if that holds up or not but that's been a huge difference maker for me this early for him.

The Freshmen are still clearly finding themselves and adjusting to college. And that's fine. But that also means that it's still wide open for players to make a push. Whether that's Whitmore (who I have the highest hopes for), or Nick Smith, or Whitehead after a poor start. But I am a bit concerned about Whitehead because a player that relies on making a ton of tough shots has very little margin for error in the NBA. If he's just a bit less athletic than expected, or just a bit worse at hitting his shots, then that makes a very big difference for him as a prospect (it's something we're starting to see with R.J. Barrett).

really like all 3 of those guys and expect them to continue getting better as the year progresses.

Jarace Walker and Julian Phillips are two players that I very much like but both need to show more to not be hit with the ‘role player’ label that automatically downgrades them compared to (perceived) higher-upside prospects. Same goes for Cason Wallace. Brandon Miller to me is safely in the lottery but tough to see him in the top 5 with his limitations as a creator unless the draft is a lot worse at the top than we expected (possible but at this point still not likely). Kel'el Ware has been clearly outplaying Lively but still isn't a serious threat to be picked in the top half of the lottery.

not a big Phillips guy at this point, Walker I like but don't necessarily love yet, he's not quite the defensive force that his athletic and physical profile indicates and still way too inconsistent shooting. probably closer to mid 1st round for me at this point until I see more.

And there's also not a top-level Sophomore or upperclassman that is intriguing enough to be picked in the top 5 and perhaps not even in the top 10 (let's see) unlike last year with Ivey and Murray. Perhaps I should finally pay closer attention to the Thompson twins and see if they are legit top 5-7 prospects.

well, doubt Ivey/Murray would go 4/5 in this class.

I have Ricky Council as a lotto guy right now if that counts.

SeattleJazzFan · Post #887 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:17 pm

does anybody know much about Taylor Hendricks? good size, plus athlete, can shoot it and is producing as a frosh. may need his own thread here soon. if he's been mentioned and discussed, i apologize, but it can be hard follow everything at times.

clyde21 · Post #888 » by **clyde21** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:23 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:does anybody know much about Taylor Hendricks? good size, plus athlete, can shoot it and is producing as a frosh. may need his own thread here soon. if he's been mentioned and discussed, i apologize, but it can be hard follow everything at times.

need his own thread

EvanZ · Post #889 » by **EvanZ** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:35 pm

I've already posted about Taylor Hendricks in the Mid-Major thread so yeah.

SeattleJazzFan · Post #890 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:05 pm

EvanZ wrote:I've already posted about Taylor Hendricks in the Mid-Major thread so yeah.

thx and good call

clyde21 · Post #891 » by **clyde21** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:04 am

Read on Twitter

The-Power · Post #892 » by **The-Power** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:27 am

Also a little bit of a coming out party for MJ Rice. Great to see.

Watch on YouTube

SeattleJazzFan · Post #893 » by **SeattleJazzFan** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 3:10 pm

The-Power wrote:Also a little bit of a coming out party for MJ Rice. Great to see.

Watch on YouTube

looked a lot like Ochai in those highlights. similar body type and size, catch and shoot threes, not much off the dribble and nice bounce.

babyjax13 · Post #894 » by **babyjax13** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:21 pm

clyde21 wrote:
The Power wrote:What sets GG Jackson apart from Brandon Miller as a prospect in your mind? Is it mostly the age difference that gives him more upside or something about his current profile?

the age difference is one aspect - almost two full years is a huge variance. at the same age Miller was playing against 16yr olds. from a bball standpoint, I like GG's athletic profile better, especially how he's built and his frame, I think it'll allow him to scale athletically much better than B Miller long term. i like GG better defensively as well and think eventually he can even pull some mins as a small ball 5, don't think Miller can scale like that physically.

With Black, the question is whether he's going to be the aggressive version of the last three games or the passive version of the first three games going forward. He needs to be aggressive to enter the top 3 conversation for me. And he needs to take enough 3s to keep defenses honest. Because he's only a potential top 3 prospect if he can be a lead ball handler, and he can only be a lead ball handler if he can put enough pressure on defenses to create advantages. But his overall trajectory as well as his FT% clearly have been a positive.

i think Black's biggest question mark for him is his pull game/mid range repertoire. when he penetrates the mid range he's usually left with two options, either continue trying to drive or kicking it out. i want him to develop some type of middy pull up or a reliable turnaround 18 footer, also maybe add a floater in there to give himself options in that space. otherwise I'm bullish on his shooting, passing chops, BBIQ and physical profile. if he can develop a reliable middy game, at least one or two go-to move this year at some point he's firmly #3 for me.

Keyonte has been a positive surprise with his playmaking. And this is much needed because a player of his size needs to be a top-tier scoring threat inside and outside as well as a plus playmaker – or a plus scoring threat and a top-tier playmaker – to warrant being picked this high, especially in a strong draft. The playmaking looks solid enough, now the question is whether he can demonstrate that he can be a potentially elite scorer.

all fair - I think he has shown enough from a scoring standpoint on all 3 levels to be intriguing there, and I'm bullish on his athletic profile, and defensively he's actually been surprisingly good on ball. we'll see if that holds up or not but that's been a huge difference maker for me this early for him.

The Freshmen are still clearly finding themselves and adjusting to college. And that's fine. But that also means that it's still wide open for players to make a push. Whether that's Whitmore (who I have the highest hopes for), or Nick Smith, or Whitehead after a poor start. But I am a bit concerned about Whitehead because a player that relies on making a ton of tough shots has very little margin for error in the NBA. If he's just a bit less athletic than expected, or just a bit worse at hitting his shots, then that makes a very big difference for him as a prospect (it's something we're starting to see with R.J. Barrett).

really like all 3 of those guys and expect them to continue getting better as the year progresses.

Jarace Walker and Julian Phillips are two players that I very much like but both need to show more to not be hit with the ‘role player’ label that automatically downgrades them compared to (perceived) higher-upside prospects. Same goes for Cason Wallace. Brandon Miller to me is safely in the lottery but tough to see him in the top 5 with his limitations as a creator unless the draft is a lot worse at the top than we expected (possible but at this point still not likely). Kel'el Ware has been clearly outplaying Lively but still isn't a serious threat to be picked in the top half of the lottery.

not a big Phillips guy at this point, Walker I like but don't necessarily love yet, he's not quite the defensive force that his athletic and physical profile indicates and still way too inconsistent shooting. probably closer to mid 1st round for me at this point until I see more.

And there's also not a top-level Sophomore or upperclassman that is intriguing enough to be picked in the top 5 and perhaps not even in the top 10 (let's see) unlike last year with Ivey and Murray. Perhaps I should finally pay closer attention to the Thompson twins and see if they are legit top 5-7 prospects.

well, doubt Ivey/Murray would go 4/5 in this class.

I have Ricky Council as a lotto guy right now if that counts.

I think Ivey would go top 5, or at least be in contention. Murray would, at best, be top 7 or 8, I think.

clyde21 · Post #895 » by **clyde21** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 6:04 pm

no way Ivey would go top 5 in this class, or even be in contention. if Ricky Council isn't in contention I don't know why Ivey would be, and C4 is wing sized.

clyde21 · Post #896 » by **clyde21** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:11 pm

Mintz vs Clark should be fun tonight

BostonCouchGM · Post #897 » by **BostonCouchGM** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:05 am

As we sit, I’ve got Amen Thompson at #3 and his brother not far behind. They’re elite. I was WAY off with these two. They both have very high motors, great handles, high BBIQ on both ends and deep bags to pull from on offense. They aren’t shooting well from three but both have potential. Even without a three point shot I see them potentially being DeRozan but taller with well above average defense. They should both be stars. Some team should trade the house to get them together on the same team.

clyde21 · Post #898 » by **clyde21** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:02 am

clyde21 wrote:Mintz vs Clark should be fun tonight

pretty hilarious, both combine 1-16 so far.

The Moose · Post #899 » by **The Moose** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:16 am

BostonCouchGM wrote:As we sit, I’ve got Amen Thompson at #3 and his brother not far behind. They’re elite. I was WAY off with these two. They both have very high motors, great handles, high BBIQ on both ends and deep bags to pull from on offense. They aren’t shooting well from three but both have potential. Even without a three point shot I see them potentially being DeRozan but taller with well above average defense. They should both be stars. Some team should trade the house to get them together on the same team.

Depending on how the bulls do, Orlando could have a chance to draft both

buzzkilloton · Post #900 » by **buzzkilloton** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:57 am

clyde21 wrote:no way Ivey would go top 5 in this class, or even be in contention. if Ricky Council isn't in contention I don't know why Ivey would be, and C4 is wing sized.

I wanted the Pistons to take Ivey last season. I would not take Ivey 5 in this class though. I still expect he would be a top 10 guy.

Not saying I'm not happy with Ivey. Moreso I like what I'm seeing from some guys in this class and expect by EOS I love quite a few more.