Does Barkley have the best scoring peak for PFs alltime

[Dutchball97]

Out of curiosity would you guys put Charles Barkley over Larry Bird as a scorer?

Definitely, people highly overrate Bird as a scorer. That's not the reason why he was so good. Barkley and Dirk were comfortably better scorers than Larry.

Career-wise I'd agree but I don't see many Dirk seasons where he was a comfortably better scorer than 87 and 88 Bird.

[70sFan]

Out of curiosity would you guys put Charles Barkley over Larry Bird as a scorer?

Definitely, people highly overrate Bird as a scorer. That's not the reason why he was so good. Barkley and Dirk were comfortably better scorers than Larry.

Career-wise I'd agree but I don't see many Dirk seasons where he was a comfortably better scorer than 87 and 88 Bird.

Yeah, Bird peaked as a scorer in these seasons and his RS performances are quite impressive (playoffs are different matter though). Even if we compare RS numbers:

1987 Bird: 25.6 pp75 on + 7.4 rTS%
1988 Bird: 28.8 pp75 on n+7.0 rTS%

to some of Dirk's best seasons:

2006 Dirk: 29.6 pp75 on +5.4 rTS%
2007 Dirk: 28.2 pp75 on +6.4 rTS%
2011 Dirk: 27.1 pp75 on +7.1 rTS%

then it seems that Dirk actually reached that level a few times. Now, if we include playoffs then Dirk crushes Bird, as Bird has only one postseason run above 25 pp75 and +7 rTS%, while Dirk did that for a very long time.

[70sFan]

No, Bird was a tremendous post scorer, which Nowitzki wasn't, and a much better shooter than Barkley.

Bird was the weakest post scorer of these three.

He was a bad passer too.......

I get it's sarcastic post, but it's a bad attempt. Bird was a good post scorer, but we're comparing him to the two of the greatest post scorers ever here. Just because he's the weakest, doesn't mean he's bad.

Bird is a better offensive player than either, but he's not a better scorer or post scorer specifically.

[migya]

Bird was the weakest post scorer of these three.

He was a bad passer too.......

I get it's sarcastic post, but it's a bad attempt. Bird was a good post scorer, but we're comparing him to the two of the greatest post scorers ever here. Just because he's the weakest, doesn't mean he's bad.

Bird is a better offensive player than either, but he's not a better scorer or post scorer specifically.

Duncan and Barkley standout as great post scorers, not Nowitzki. He shot the midrange off of posting up type plays.

[70sFan]

He was a bad passer too.......

I get it's sarcastic post, but it's a bad attempt. Bird was a good post scorer, but we're comparing him to the two of the greatest post scorers ever here. Just because he's the weakest, doesn't mean he's bad.

Bird is a better offensive player than either, but he's not a better scorer or post scorer specifically.

Duncan and Barkley standout as great post scorers, not Nowitzki. He shot the midrange off of posting up type plays.

So you say that Michael Jordan isn't a standout post scorer?

[migya]

I get it's sarcastic post, but it's a bad attempt. Bird was a good post scorer, but we're comparing him to the two of the greatest post scorers ever here. Just because he's the weakest, doesn't mean he's bad.

Bird is a better offensive player than either, but he's not a better scorer or post scorer specifically.

Duncan and Barkley standout as great post scorers, not Nowitzki. He shot the midrange off of posting up type plays.

So you say that Michael Jordan isn't a standout post scorer?

Jordan used to score on legit postups, going around his man to the basket, like Barkley really, Nowitzki not really. Jordan was a far more dynamic post scorer than Nowitzki.

[70sFan]

Duncan and Barkley standout as great post scorers, not Nowitzki. He shot the midrange off of posting up type plays.

So you say that Michael Jordan isn't a standout post scorer?

Jordan used to score on legit postups, going around his man to the basket, like Barkley really, Nowitzki not really. Jordan was a far more dynamic post scorer than Nowitzki.

It looks like you haven't seen Dirk's games that much and rely on false narratives.

[CharityStripe34]

Pre-3PT era or merger the two Bobs (McAdoo and Pettit) can make a case. Then guys like Barkley, McHale, Dirk and Gianni are all up there (as far as scoring peaks).

[ty 4191]

Probably it's between him and Dirk. HM to McAdoo, Giannis and Pettit, but these two are level ahead.

Agreed. Why does Barkley seem so underrated here?

Also, who was the best/most valuable here?

Per Backpicks:

Barkley (1987-1988 through 1995-1996):
Regular Season (657 games):
-25.1 IA PTS/75 (94th percentile)
-+8.0 rTS%: (91st percentile)
-Score Val: 97th percentile

Playoffs (69 games):
-25.1 IA PTS/75 (94th percentile)
-+6.6 tTS% (80th percentile)
-Score Val: (94th percentile)

Dirk Nowitzki (2001-2002 through 2009-2010):
Regular Season (709 games):
-26.8 IA PTS/75 (97th percentile)
-+5.0 rTS% (85th percentile)
-Score Val: (98th percentile)

Playoffs (93 games):
-25.6 IA PTS/75 (91st percentile)
-+5.6 rTS% (74th percentile)
-Score Val: (90th percentile)

Bob Pettit (1955-1956 through 1963-1964):
Regular Season (670 games):
-25.5 IA PTS/75 (95th percentile)
-+4.5% tTS% (84th percentile)
-Score Val: (97th percentile)

Playoffs (84 games):
-23.8 IA PTS/75 (87th percentile)
-+4.0 rTS% (74th percentile)
-Score Val: (93rd percentile)

[ty 4191]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Karl Malone?

Karl Malone (1988-1989 through 1998-1999):
Regular Season (865 games):
-28.4 IA PTS/75
-+6.0 tTS%

Playoffs (128 games):
-27.1 IA PTS/75
-+1.5 rTS%

[tsherkin]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Karl Malone?

Karl Malone (1988-1989 through 1998-1999):
Regular Season (865 games):
-28.4 IA PTS/75
-+6.0 tTS%

Playoffs (128 games):
-27.1 IA PTS/75
-+1.5 rTS%

Several people have, many people are just waffling back and forth about his postseason, and how the very sharp drop-off in scoring efficiency plays into his place here. Also, you're posting prime numbers in a thread about peak.

[ty 4191]

Several people have, many people are just waffling back and forth about his postseason, and how the very sharp drop-off in scoring efficiency plays into his place here. Also, you're posting prime numbers in a thread about peak.

Peak, to me, is several sustained years of excellence. You might call it "prime". I can see that.

Either way, if you want results for only 1 or 2 years, just ask.

[ty 4191]

Does Barkley have the best peak scoring for PFs alltime? He was among the best scorers of his era and one of the best post scorers ever.

Please define "peak" objectively. Thank you.

[tsherkin]

Several people have, many people are just waffling back and forth about his postseason, and how the very sharp drop-off in scoring efficiency plays into his place here. Also, you're posting prime numbers in a thread about peak.

Peak, to me, is several sustained years of excellence. You might call it "prime". I can see that.

Either way, if you want results for only 1 or 2 years, just ask.

We've had this discussion on this board, recently. The word "peak" is used fairly specifically on this board, so you may want to be aware of that, or at least clarify when you post against that basic definition.

[migya]

Does Barkley have the best peak scoring for PFs alltime? He was among the best scorers of his era and one of the best post scorers ever.

Please define "peak" objectively. Thank you.

Peak generally means one season. For three year peak (three best seasons) Malone certainly is strong for number one.

[tsherkin]

Jordan used to score on legit postups, going around his man to the basket, like Barkley really, Nowitzki not really. Jordan was a far more dynamic post scorer than Nowitzki.

"Ending the possession at the rim" isn't the definition of post scoring. Nowitzki routinely used mid-block and elbow post possessions in a manner very similar to second three-peat MJ... He used the post a lot. It's actually a defining feature of the second half of his career.

[mdonnelly1989]

Dirk. I feel like he was a better post season player, there is more data to support his offensive impact and the utility of him being able to score from different points of the court at a high level would correlate with his impact.


Out of curiosity would you guys put Charles Barkley over Larry Bird as a scorer?

No, Bird was a tremendous post scorer, which Nowitzki wasn't, and a much better shooter than Barkley.

You really need to work on your nuance with basketball. Where the heck do you think Dirk was scoring from - half court?!

Dirk is one of the best post scorers of all time and a large portion of his points come from the post. You think just because he's a jump shooter he's not a post scorer, we might as well say Michael Jordan wasn't a good post scorer.

Lmfao

[ceoofkobefans]

No that goes to Dirk Nowitzki by a pretty nice margin for me

KM would prolly be 2

Chuck 3

Dirk is so Nice he gets forgotten about