If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

[OrlMagic05]

Franz Wagner deserves to be in this conversation.

He isn't "flashy" enough.. Franz is averaging 20ppg 4 rebs 4 ast on 50% shooting and doesnt even crack the top 5 is laughable.

[tooler]

This is a great neutral observer article on Franz if anyone wants to get caught up with the new developments and impact this season.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2022/11/25/23474981/orlando-magic-franz-wagner-point-forward

I'm not asking anyone to change their redraft order because of it. Just useful to know for informed discussion.

[OrlMagic05]

t much of a better 3pt shooter from last year. I still like Scottie Barnes ,but his lack development is starting to be a real concern.

4. Franz Wagner - He has scored almost 20 points per game. However he's doing that on 31% from the 3pt line. He's also a limited defender. Maybe he could a borderline all star if he becomes a really good 3pt shooter

Check out his November Splits.. Hes shooting 39% from 3.

[Fencer reregistered]

Not great

That lowers my perception of his offensive upside. In general, it speaks negatively to his awareness. In particular, it's not good for his obvious role as a roll man.

Screening is something that can be learned over time. I don’t think it has anything to do with awareness, screening is almost entirely technique.

The location, angle and timing of a screen have a lot to do with awareness.

The stance (moving or otherwise) is more a matter of technique.

[BallerTalk]

***Idiocy redacted***

“BUT HE TAKES A LOT OF SHOTS AND JUMPS HIGH!!!”

We get it. You don't like JG for whatever reason but you've been repeating the same clueless commentary ad infinitum in every thread that even bothers to mention his name.
Seems personal to be so emotionally invested in denigrating a player you claim to dislike.


RELAX
BREATHE
LET IT GO

[jasonxxx102]

***Idiocy redacted***

“BUT HE TAKES A LOT OF SHOTS AND JUMPS HIGH!!!”

We get it. You don't like JG for whatever reason but you've been repeating the same clueless commentary ad infinitum in every thread that even bothers to mention his name.
Seems personal to be so emotionally invested in denigrating a player you claim to dislike.


RELAX
BREATHE
LET IT GO

Well... I've been right for 1.

2. That's also the majority opinion

3. I never said I dislike him.

We'll come back to this in a year, and then 2 years, and then 3 years and guess what I'll still be right.

god bless

[pr0wler]

1. People here are talking about JJJr like we were talking about JJ Hickson. Just go back 2 years to see some of the threads about him before claiming what Evan will become.

2. Green is definetely a scorer, but a highly inefficient at that and displays losing basketball tendencies.

3. Cade is a floor raiser, doubt he has the shooting and athleticism to be a first option on a championship team.

4. The same can be said about Evan + no one has won a championship with a 1st option as a big the last 10 years. Even if Mobley has Gobert-like defensive potential he still can't be your best player.

Then, given that none of them project to be actual 1st options to compete for a ring, we're then ranking them as possible 2nd options. Of those, only 2 display potential at fullfiling a 2A-B role (think Klay, Lowry, Middleton, Davis, Irving), and one will be better than the other one at his role-specific tasks, therefore :

1. Mobley
2. Cade

Then you're talking about 3rd bananas or elite starting role players (think Draymond, Bosh, Brook Lopez, Love, Siakam):

3a. Barnes
3b. Wagner

I can't actually rank Green cause he looks like on of those players that will never be a good 1st option but you just can't tell if he would be able to turn into a proper 2 banana; just too far into the future to see how he'll handle the ego downgrade or how much teams will try to actually pursue him as a 1st option before giving up)

Green is "highly inefficient" at just below league avg efficiency, and about average for his position? Ok

[zshawn10]

Barnes has been awful this season and Mobley's got Allen, Garland, and Mitchell lol

[zshawn10]

Honestly the whole top of the draft class has been a disappointment this year. Last year it looked loaded with future all-star caliber players, this year no one has taken a big leap forward, something you look for in future franchise players. Mobley still looks like he will be an all-star eventually, but the rest of the bunch have shown little to no progression since last season.

Barnes and Cade look worse than they did at the end of last season. Kuminga has been overshadowed by Wiseman’s catastrophic failure but he’s been absolutely terrible too. Suggs has shown improvement, but that’s not saying much given how bad his rookie year was. I’d probably draft Franz second after Mobley at this point.

You forgot Green and his playmaking is way more on display this year than last year. Not to mention he's not doing really really bad like he was the first half of the season last year

[QingJames]

Mobley is not one of the most versatile defenders in the league. He can’t even defend effectively (i.e. at a league neutral level) at his secondary position, center. He is strictly a PF who guards the worst perimeter player on the other team so he can come over and play great help defense with his instincts and length.

Mobley’s great but blowing the smoke up his ass as this legendary defender has to stop. He’s not close to being a generational defender nor to being one of the most versatile defenders in the league.

[QingJames]

If you have Jordan Clarkson as many shots as Green he’d average more points, let that sink in. Oh and he averages as many rebounds and more assists with a better ast/to ratio.

I don’t understand the infatuation with chuckers who don’t do anything else. Not to mention Green is one of the worst defenders in the NBA

“BUT HE TAKES A LOT OF SHOTS AND JUMPS HIGH!!!”

Completely agree. We have seen in the past decade of NBA play that a high-usage chucker with horrible defense is a player that might get you to the second round in the playoffs if he’s your best guy. MAYBE. I do not understand the infatuation with Green. I think people just get wowed by some big point totals in the box score.

[Backcountry]

I'm still taking Cade #1. IMO he has the highest ceiling as a leader and all-round player.

Torn on #2. My homerism says Barnes but he is still so raw that I don't know which way he's going to go. But his numbers and Mobley's are almost identical across the board. Mobley has advantages in blocks and rebounds, but Scottie leads in steals and assists. Their ppg are identical, even their advanced stats are so close as to be almost equal (except that Mobley had higher DBPM while Scottie has higher OBPM, for example). For a lot of people's choice as #1, Mobely hasn't differentiated himself a lot.

So I'd call Mobley and Barnes #2a & 2b.

I'm going Wagner as my #3. Despite them both being on teams that generally suck, his numbers are better across the board than Green.

#4 Green. Great scorer. Really, really needs to work on his defence.

Toss up between Giddey and Sengun for next pick. Depends on team need. Like them both.

[amcoolio]

Before the draft, I said Wagner would be a bigger, healthier Gordon Hayward and Charlotte needed to trade up to get him at all costs.

Instead they stayed put and drafted Bouknight, then traded a future first to get back in and take Kai Jones.

Before this draft, I said Eason will be a special player in the mold of Shawn Marion and he's exactly what the Hornets and LaMelo need, and draft him at 13.

Instead they traded the 13th pick for essentially 5 second round picks.

I hate Kupchak, and I should be the GM

[DCasey91]

From the draft I had none as clear standout number one options on an elite team. I did however have Mobley as a top tier ancillary piece. I’m very comfortable in saying he’ll be better than Gobert on both sides of the ball his IQ for the game is just that high.

Cavs have the number one defence atm I do reckon he’ll be a perennial DPOY/All NBA defensive candidate.

I don’t buy into the Cade hype you’re looking at more or less Westbrook pedestrian led offence with him at the helm. Didn’t back then and certainly didn’t now.

Jalen Green I had with Mobley as the top two to get but I’ve been wrong on that. He’s still going to be a one heck of a scorer but I’m betting Mobley is the more impactful player on winning.

[Memories]

Barnes is having an awful sophomore season. I know the abundance of Raptors fans here are overwhelming, but objectively, my top 4 is:

1. Evan Mobley
2. Franz Wagner
3. Jalen Green
4. Cade Cunningham

[Bodiroga13]

Cade is looking worse than he really is, because he needs shooters around him. If i am not mistaken, Pistons don't shoot well.
Furthermore, Cade's basketball iq is very high. However, if your teammates are not on the same level, your basketball intelligence can't be much useful. With all due respect to Pistons, i don't see a high collective bbiq as a team.

Cade, Barnes, Wagner are very intelligent players. I think Mobley is really, really close too, definitely he has defensively at least, the bigger ceiling. Offensively, he must try harder, but still, i would be more optimistic than pessimistic, if i were a Cavs fan.

Barnes is the most versatile player, he can literally play every position, he can guard anyone (maybe except a few very skilled bigs). Nurse had this crazy idea, to make him a PG, everyone else thought last year that Barnes is a Siakam-like player and the two of them are not a great fit.
Nurse knows better though.

1) Cade
2) Barnes
3) Mobley
4) Wagner
5) Green

[JonFromVA]

Not great

That lowers my perception of his offensive upside. In general, it speaks negatively to his awareness. In particular, it's not good for his obvious role as a roll man.

Screening is something that can be learned over time. I don’t think it has anything to do with awareness, screening is almost entirely technique.

It's not all technique (unless we're talking setting illegal screens) because the screen setter is supposed to square up and Mobley squaring up doesn't present much of an obstacle. He actually likes to slip screens, which is not a bad idea when defenses are just going to switch.

The Cavs run more P&R with Allen.

[Shock Defeat]

If you have Jordan Clarkson as many shots as Green he’d average more points, let that sink in. Oh and he averages as many rebounds and more assists with a better ast/to ratio.

I don’t understand the infatuation with chuckers who don’t do anything else. Not to mention Green is one of the worst defenders in the NBA

“BUT HE TAKES A LOT OF SHOTS AND JUMPS HIGH!!!”

You compared 30 year old player to a 20 year old player. Congratulations.

[LoveMyRaps]

As of now:

Mobley
Barnes
Cade

But the top 3 will keep changing.
I still believe Cade will end up being the best player from the draft class. Followed by Barnes than Mobley.

All 3 will be bonafide stars.

[PhilBlackson]

1. Mobley
2. Barnes
3. Cade
4. Green

Pretty much this.