Wolves vs Thunder game thread 12/3/22

[fattymcgee]

I didn't get a chance to watch the game. Can anyone tell me why Ant only had 1 shot (3pter when game was already decided] in the 4th quarter?

[Nick K]

And we ran him out of town!

I was the least of them. Andrew was easily a way above average basketball player with big upside. We had expectations placed on him that he couldn't reach which wasn't all his fault.

Now that he can be just one of the boys look at how his game has sprouted. He's just what we hoped he'd be.

Maybe it was us and how we handled him that is the issue.

We tried everything with the guy. Multiple coaches and multiple approaches, where he was the #1 guy, the #2 guy, #3 guy, point Wiggins, and we brought in Jimmy thinking he’d mature Andrew and Karl. At some point, you gotta say, “it’s not me, it’s you” and break up.

I’m pretty sure that if he stayed in Minnesota, he would never have become this version. It also helps me sleep and night when I see DLo throw three passes to no one in particular, breaking open a close fourth quarter for OKC. If I thought we traded the new Wiggins for this DLo, I’d jump off a roof.

Amen to that.

Wigs always had the talent but we couldn't get it out of him. GS did! They put him in a position to succeed.

[fattymcgee]

And we ran him out of town!

I was the least of them. Andrew was easily a way above average basketball player with big upside. We had expectations placed on him that he couldn't reach which wasn't all his fault.

Now that he can be just one of the boys look at how his game has sprouted. He's just what we hoped he'd be.

Maybe it was us and how we handled him that is the issue.

We tried everything with the guy. Multiple coaches and multiple approaches, where he was the #1 guy, the #2 guy, #3 guy, point Wiggins, and we brought in Jimmy thinking he’d mature Andrew and Karl. At some point, you gotta say, “it’s not me, it’s you” and break up.

I’m pretty sure that if he stayed in Minnesota, he would never have become this version. It also helps me sleep and night when I see DLo throw three passes to no one in particular, breaking open a close fourth quarter for OKC. If I thought we traded the new Wiggins for this DLo, I’d jump off a roof.

Amen to that.

Wigs always had the talent but we couldn't get it out of him. GS did! They put him in a position to succeed.

But GS didn't get it out of him either. Talent wise he should be 1st team NBA, but he's not even Allstar caliber. They got more out of him than we could but he's still a failure compared to the talent he has.

[shrink]

And we ran him out of town!

I was the least of them. Andrew was easily a way above average basketball player with big upside. We had expectations placed on him that he couldn't reach which wasn't all his fault.

Now that he can be just one of the boys look at how his game has sprouted. He's just what we hoped he'd be.

Maybe it was us and how we handled him that is the issue.

We tried everything with the guy. Multiple coaches and multiple approaches, where he was the #1 guy, the #2 guy, #3 guy, point Wiggins, and we brought in Jimmy thinking he’d mature Andrew and Karl. At some point, you gotta say, “it’s not me, it’s you” and break up.

I’m pretty sure that if he stayed in Minnesota, he would never have become this version. It also helps me sleep and night when I see DLo throw three passes to no one in particular, breaking open a close fourth quarter for OKC. If I thought we traded the new Wiggins for this DLo, I’d jump off a roof.

Amen to that.

Wigs always had the talent but we couldn't get it out of him. GS did! They put him in a position to succeed.

I think that GSW had a few advantages we could never match:

1. We wanted him to be a superstar, because of his gifts, his draft position, and later the max deal. He didn’t have the psyche to rise up to that level. GSW was happy with him being a helper. “Just try to be as good as DLo was here” isn’t a lot of pressure.

2. GSW had leaders like Draymond and Steff. Their organization wasn’t always in the midst of constant change.

Lately I’ve been giving more and more thought to the mental make up of players. What makes some of them such good leaders, and others so poor? How can a guy have the work ethic to turn himself into an NBA player, but lack team-building skills, either as a leader or a follower? I don’t think Wiggins could ever become a leader, or expand to be a creative player. But to me, his psyche is “give me a small, specified role and don’t ask for more,” and he can apply his massive physical ability to that task. We wanted more.

[Calinks]

I think people vastly underestimate how important fit and team structure is. The right player in the right system is a total game changer. Wiggins went to a championship-caliber team that already knew who they are and how they want to play. He had leaders to follow, a tailor made role, and he just had to learn how to fill it with skills he had. Stability, and leadership from players, coaches,and organizations. Clear vision. All of these things matter greatly.

The Wovles have always been in flux. New coaches, new schemes, new directions, new players, new GM's, One minute Wiggins si the guy, then he's the number 2, etc. He never had consistent vets, he never had consistent leaders. Nearly every player with talent can look exponentially better if they are in the right situation. Golden State is that for Wiggins. He was very smart not to jump ship and take a bigger pay day elsewhere.

[PharmD]

And we ran him out of town!

I was the least of them. Andrew was easily a way above average basketball player with big upside. We had expectations placed on him that he couldn't reach which wasn't all his fault.

Now that he can be just one of the boys look at how his game has sprouted. He's just what we hoped he'd be.

Maybe it was us and how we handled him that is the issue.

We tried everything with the guy. Multiple coaches and multiple approaches, where he was the #1 guy, the #2 guy, #3 guy, point Wiggins, and we brought in Jimmy thinking he’d mature Andrew and Karl. At some point, you gotta say, “it’s not me, it’s you” and break up.

I’m pretty sure that if he stayed in Minnesota, he would never have become this version. It also helps me sleep and night when I see DLo throw three passes to no one in particular, breaking open a close fourth quarter for OKC. If I thought we traded the new Wiggins for this DLo, I’d jump off a roof.

Agree on all points.

However DLo is worse than Wiggins ever was.

[TwolvesFanRome]

Bad L. We had to W this game to gain confidence and continuity.

Sometimes I don't understand the coach: Gobert gets ejected. Towns isn't there. Why not give Garza a few minutes? Come on... he too has his faults. He's had the team at hand for months now and it's still not running as it should. He didn't find the right square.

[BlacJacMac]

Bad L. We had to W this game to gain confidence and continuity.

Sometimes I don't understand the coach: Gobert gets ejected. Towns isn't there. Why not give Garza a few minutes? Come on... he too has his faults. He's had the team at hand for months now and it's still not running as it should. He didn't find the right square.

Garza was sent back to Iowa on the 1st.

[Biff Cooper]

Garza was sent back to Iowa on the 1st.

He was on the bench and active on the roster last night.

Some props to OKC. They have a few real nice young players. They could have easily beat us the first time we played. We were pretty stupid down the stretch in the 4th Q and the Refs were bad and stubborn. Should have been a win for us despite OKC playing well.

[Calinks]

Some like to blame it all on Towns, some od Dlo, but collectively we have a lot a of problems. Roster construction isn't great, Ant and Dlo do not complement each other well defensively with how they have to play when we are running two bigs. They both have a lot of laspes that screw up the entire defense. Dlo makes some bad choices and he is just physically limited. Ant is still very clueless and unfocused.

Our mentally is funky. We struggle with resiliency, we don't have an identity we can fall back on. Teams can easily knock us off kilter because we have nothing to fall back on. There isn't anything we are confident about executing. Once again we made some big changes and messed up some consistency we were building starting from the Denver and Dlo trades that Rosas started.

Not saying taking a big shot was a bad move, I t think you have to do that when you get a chance an think it will propel you but the cost of that is starting over chemistry-wise. The seamless fit talk between KAT and Gobert was BS, it's been an incredibly difficult fit and its worsened by our poor guard play.

Still, I think the team will start to gel around Rudy in the coming weeks. Rudy will also hopefully start looking like his old self. Finch needs to push this along by putting Rudy in more situations he was used to in Utah. KAT isn't out there so there is no reason to not use Rudy more traditionally in these coming games.

[twolves31]

I didn't get a chance to watch the game. Can anyone tell me why Ant only had 1 shot (3pter when game was already decided] in the 4th quarter?

Conditioning, he pulled himself out of the 3rd quarter when he was gassed. He had an awesome sequence of points steals and hustle and than he was tired.

[shrink]

We have enough talent to beat the best, but we have enough stupidity to lose to the worst.

This team is so frustrating. Every game is unsettling, no matter who we play.

[Foye]

Some like to blame it all on Towns, some od Dlo, but collectively we have a lot a of problems. Roster construction isn't great, Ant and Dlo do not complement each other well defensively with how they have to play when we are running two bigs. They both have a lot of laspes that screw up the entire defense. Dlo makes some bad choices and he is just physically limited. Ant is still very clueless and unfocused.

Our mentally is funky. We struggle with resiliency, we don't have an identity we can fall back on. Teams can easily knock us off kilter because we have nothing to fall back on. There isn't anything we are confident about executing. Once again we made some big changes and messed up some consistency we were building starting from the Denver and Dlo trades that Rosas started.

Not saying taking a big shot was a bad move, I t think you have to do that when you get a chance an think it will propel you but the cost of that is starting over chemistry-wise. The seamless fit talk between KAT and Gobert was BS, it's been an incredibly difficult fit and its worsened by our poor guard play.

Still, I think the team will start to gel around Rudy in the coming weeks. Rudy will also hopefully start looking like his old self. Finch needs to push this along by putting Rudy in more situations he was used to in Utah. KAT isn't out there so there is no reason to not use Rudy more traditionally in these coming games.

The hilarious part is that Wolves were actually in a decent position because of the emergence of Vanderbilt and the leadership from Beverly. All they needed to do to have a decent future is:
1) Keep Beverly, Vanderbilt
2) Trade this Russell bum expiring for a PG upgrade to a team looking to shred salary at the trade deadline
3) Get value in a KAT trade to build around McDaniels, Edwards and Vanderbilt

Had they done that you are looking at playoffs for the next decade.
It is hilarious how bad this franchise is really.

[Note30]

Some like to blame it all on Towns, some od Dlo, but collectively we have a lot a of problems. Roster construction isn't great, Ant and Dlo do not complement each other well defensively with how they have to play when we are running two bigs. They both have a lot of laspes that screw up the entire defense. Dlo makes some bad choices and he is just physically limited. Ant is still very clueless and unfocused.

Our mentally is funky. We struggle with resiliency, we don't have an identity we can fall back on. Teams can easily knock us off kilter because we have nothing to fall back on. There isn't anything we are confident about executing. Once again we made some big changes and messed up some consistency we were building starting from the Denver and Dlo trades that Rosas started.

Not saying taking a big shot was a bad move, I t think you have to do that when you get a chance an think it will propel you but the cost of that is starting over chemistry-wise. The seamless fit talk between KAT and Gobert was BS, it's been an incredibly difficult fit and its worsened by our poor guard play.

Still, I think the team will start to gel around Rudy in the coming weeks. Rudy will also hopefully start looking like his old self. Finch needs to push this along by putting Rudy in more situations he was used to in Utah. KAT isn't out there so there is no reason to not use Rudy more traditionally in these coming games.

The hilarious part is that Wolves were actually in a decent position because of the emergence of Vanderbilt and the leadership from Beverly. All they needed to do to have a decent future is:
1) Keep Beverly, Vanderbilt
2) Trade this Russell bum expiring for a PG upgrade to a team looking to shred salary at the trade deadline
3) Get value in a KAT trade to build around McDaniels, Edwards and Vanderbilt

Had they done that you are looking at playoffs for the next decade.
It is hilarious how bad this franchise is really.

I really don't like how you come around here just to troll and put the forum down, but....

You're right.

[MN7725]

Some like to blame it all on Towns, some od Dlo, but collectively we have a lot a of problems. Roster construction isn't great, Ant and Dlo do not complement each other well defensively with how they have to play when we are running two bigs. They both have a lot of laspes that screw up the entire defense. Dlo makes some bad choices and he is just physically limited. Ant is still very clueless and unfocused.

Our mentally is funky. We struggle with resiliency, we don't have an identity we can fall back on. Teams can easily knock us off kilter because we have nothing to fall back on. There isn't anything we are confident about executing. Once again we made some big changes and messed up some consistency we were building starting from the Denver and Dlo trades that Rosas started.

Not saying taking a big shot was a bad move, I t think you have to do that when you get a chance an think it will propel you but the cost of that is starting over chemistry-wise. The seamless fit talk between KAT and Gobert was BS, it's been an incredibly difficult fit and its worsened by our poor guard play.

Still, I think the team will start to gel around Rudy in the coming weeks. Rudy will also hopefully start looking like his old self. Finch needs to push this along by putting Rudy in more situations he was used to in Utah. KAT isn't out there so there is no reason to not use Rudy more traditionally in these coming games.

The hilarious part is that Wolves were actually in a decent position because of the emergence of Vanderbilt and the leadership from Beverly. All they needed to do to have a decent future is:
1) Keep Beverly, Vanderbilt
2) Trade this Russell bum expiring for a PG upgrade to a team looking to shred salary at the trade deadline
3) Get value in a KAT trade to build around McDaniels, Edwards and Vanderbilt

Had they done that you are looking at playoffs for the next decade.
It is hilarious how bad this franchise is really.

Dejaunte Murray was the move, I remember Zach Lowe talking that up all summer

He rebounds his position so well, that it can be argued that going from Russell to Murray would help out in that area more than Gobert from the guys whose minutes he's effectively replaced (JV, Reid)

[TimberKat]

The energy and intensity got us back in the game which was great to see but I don't think we can rely on that for the entire game or season. We need to play smarter and better rotation on D.

I am going to get a lot of milage out of the Jim Mora Playoff clip this year. Forget about the playoffs, just hope we get to the play in.

[shrink]

The hilarious part is that Wolves were actually in a decent position because of the emergence of Vanderbilt and the leadership from Beverly. All they needed to do to have a decent future is:
1) Keep Beverly, Vanderbilt
2) Trade this Russell bum expiring for a PG upgrade to a team looking to shred salary at the trade deadline
3) Get value in a KAT trade to build around McDaniels, Edwards and Vanderbilt

Had they done that you are looking at playoffs for the next decade.
It is hilarious how bad this franchise is really.

Teams only succeed in the modern NBA with stars. Vanderbilt and Beverley were useful floor-raisers, but both have limitations that would keep us from truly competing with the league’s best. Coming in sixth in the West isn’t a “decent position” to me.

The Gobert trade may not be the right path to that goal - time will tell. But at least it is A path that might get us out of our forest of mediocrity - or worse.

[Grubie024]

Gobert cost us this win. Dirty play. Stupid play. Don't wanna hear about our poor defense, Gobert effed up big time.

[minimus]

get value in a KAT trade to build around McDaniels, Edwards and Vanderbilt

Rebuild around Vanderbilt

[Revived]

I think people vastly underestimate how important fit and team structure is. The right player in the right system is a total game changer. Wiggins went to a championship-caliber team that already knew who they are and how they want to play. He had leaders to follow, a tailor made role, and he just had to learn how to fill it with skills he had. Stability, and leadership from players, coaches,and organizations. Clear vision. All of these things matter greatly.

The Wovles have always been in flux. New coaches, new schemes, new directions, new players, new GM's, One minute Wiggins si the guy, then he's the number 2, etc. He never had consistent vets, he never had consistent leaders. Nearly every player with talent can look exponentially better if they are in the right situation. Golden State is that for Wiggins. He was very smart not to jump ship and take a bigger pay day elsewhere.

Did Wiggins really even offers to jump ship for higher pay? I think other teams would’ve been skeptical, seeing him as a “Warriors system player” that would look similar to how he did in Minnesota on most other teams.

Plus they still paid him very well, he gets paid significantly more than someone like Mikal Bridges who is better than him.