Around The League 2022-2023 season

[eyriq]

It will always amaze me that the magic built their team around two guys in AG and Vuc who are basically role players and Evan who doesn't even get playing time anymore.

Haha, what a nightmare period. To think a rebuild netted that core... I'm just thankful we didn't stick with that build for long and went pretty quickly to another rebuild.

[basketballRob]

Aaron Gordon shot chart on team where he isn't allow to do bulls*** and pretend he is Paul George




vs



Aaron Gordon on team that does not know how to say no to mediocre player that is trying things he can't even make at practice.

On the Nuggets
61% of shots taken inside 10 feet, 28% are threes. Only 11% of shots are mid range.

On Orlando Magic:
45% shots taken inside 10 feet, 31% threes. 24% shots are mid range.



Over span of a season, on 800 shots taken, it means he went from shooting, 200 mid range jumpers ( at just awful accuracy) a year to 88.
In other words, great team, and great coaching, one that does not empowers delusions due draft stock, delited from his existence 120 bad shots a year.
How much his role changed? On Magic he had 100 or more dunks -once. Normally he would have 70 dunks over 70-80-ish games of a season.
On Nuggets this year in 18 games alone he has 44 dunks. On Nuggets last year he had 130 dunks. In season where he played equal amount of min for both Magic and Nuggets ( 25) he had 19 dunks on Magic and 33 on Nuggets.
They just know his strenghts ( finishing around rim, being super athletic, being target man in open floor transition, some missmatch postups ) and limit his weaknesses ( decision making, ballhandling, mid range, pullups ).

Magic always empowered his weaknesses and glorified them, and he didn't want to play to his strenghts. Lose -lose situation it was.


This also goes for Vuc as well. Vuc flat out does NOT shoot mid range jumpers at all any more. And ofc, his TS% went from mediocre 54% to 57%.

Better teams know how to say no to their players. Poorly runned teams empower primadonna behavior on and off the court .



I really hate this about majority of fans in general. They don't understand context. Bad teams stay bad because they empower bad behavior and celebrate usless counting stats. Good teams are good because players know their roles and they are not allowed to play to their weaknesses. And fans still can't understand that "role player on great team" could easly average +20 ( Jeremy Grant example) on bad team. That doesn't make him "bad on good team" or "great on bad team" , it just means he has green light to jack enough shots to get some arbitrary numbers that are only important in minds of fans who judge players based on PPG, RPG & APG. Ignoring literally context of how those numbers were made.

AG took bad shots because that's the opportunities buddy ball gave him. NY is better without playing Fournier. The Bulls will be better off when Vuc doesn't play.

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[Bergmaniac]

Yeah, it was Vuc and Fournier that forced AG to shoot the fadeaways which he loved but had about 15% ssuccess rate...Your obsession with them is beyond parody at this point.

[Husky1]

[/quote]Haha, what a nightmare period. To think a rebuild netted that core... I'm just thankful we didn't stick with that build for long and went pretty quickly to another rebuild.[/quote]
Huh? We watched that treadmill team for 7 years. Weltham wasted 3 years “evaluating”.

[drsd]

Huh? We watched that treadmill team for 7 years. Weltham wasted 3 years “evaluating”.

Well in the end Vučević was traded for F-Wagner.
Add to that that Orlando got to dump Aminu, a truly awful player AND got Carter as a "throw-in".

That will go down as one of the best trades in Magic history.


..

[pepe1991]

Huh? We watched that treadmill team for 7 years. Weltham wasted 3 years “evaluating”.

Well in the end Vučević was traded for F-Wagner.
Add to that that Orlando got to dump Aminu, a truly awful player AND got Carter as a "throw-in".

That will go down as one of the best trades in Magic history.


..

In theory Magic could have draft Franz with own pick and hold Vuc.

Eventually it was long comming divorce as all Magic vets wanted no part of whatever front office was ( or not ) doing.

Magic won that trade, other trades ( Evan, Gordon) were pretty crappy . Evan for esencially nothing. Gordon's whole return value is dependent on 2025 pick. And given how Nuggets play, and age of Jokic, and his exstension, i'm not holdling my breath about that pick.

At the end of a day everybody in nba is on a borrowed time. I think in whole damn league there are only handful of players who spent +10 years on same teams. And longer than that list is super short. Haslem, Curry... Klay, Green, and i think that's about it.

[drsd]

Huh? We watched that treadmill team for 7 years. Weltham wasted 3 years “evaluating”.

Well in the end Vučević was traded for F-Wagner.
Add to that that Orlando got to dump Aminu, a truly awful player AND got Carter as a "throw-in".

That will go down as one of the best trades in Magic history.


..

In theory Magic could have draft Franz with own pick and hold Vuc.

Eventually it was long comming divorce as all Magic vets wanted no part of whatever front office was doing ( or not ) doing.

Magic won that trade, other trades ( Evan, Gordon) were pretty crappy . Evan for esencially nothing. Gordon's whole return value is dependent on 2025 pick. And given how Nuggets play, and age of Jokic, and his exstension, i'm not holdling my breath about that pick.

Suggs is ice-cold. Complete fearlessness is a talent. So I do think there is still hope he can develop to an NBA-level talent.

..

[pepe1991]

It looks like Pacers even nailed second round pick. Andrew Nembhard looks great on bigger PT.

[tooler]

It looks like Pacers even nailed second round pick. Andrew Nembhard looks great on bigger PT.

That organization knows guards, or perhaps the offense makes them look good. I always wonder if some of these young players around the league would turn into Cole Anthony if they suddenly played for our organization.

[Skybox]

It looks like Pacers even nailed second round pick. Andrew Nembhard looks great on bigger PT.

I was happy to get Houstan, but Nembhard was def my 2nd round hope...can't say I saw this coming.

[tiderulz]

It looks like Pacers even nailed second round pick. Andrew Nembhard looks great on bigger PT.

That organization knows guards, or perhaps the offense makes them look good. I always wonder if some of these young players around the league would turn into Cole Anthony if they suddenly played for our organization.

well, when you dont really have an offensive scheme or game planner, our offense should look bad

[pepe1991]

It looks like Pacers even nailed second round pick. Andrew Nembhard looks great on bigger PT.

That organization knows guards, or perhaps the offense makes them look good. I always wonder if some of these young players around the league would turn into Cole Anthony if they suddenly played for our organization.

Guy had 31 points, 13 assists vs full strenght Warriors team without Turner and Haliburton. And Pacers won.

He isn't "normal" rookie, he is 22 years old ,but still for second round pick guy is having very good 5 games streach.

[Skybox]

It looks like Pacers even nailed second round pick. Andrew Nembhard looks great on bigger PT.

That organization knows guards, or perhaps the offense makes them look good. I always wonder if some of these young players around the league would turn into Cole Anthony if they suddenly played for our organization.

Guy had 31 points, 13 assists vs full strenght Warriors team without Turner and Haliburton. And Pacers won.

He isn't "normal" rookie, he is 22 years old ,but still for second round pick guy is having very good 5 games streach.

"Too old" to draft...

He was 21 years old!!!

[basketballRob]

Yeah, it was Vuc and Fournier that forced AG to shoot the fadeaways which he loved but had about 15% ssuccess rate...Your obsession with them is beyond parody at this point.

Do you think it's possible that Vuc and Fournier make players around them worse?

Did Boston even make the playoffs with Fournier? Then NY looked like an up-and-coming team until they signed him.

Chicago looks like a version of the Magic teams that Vuc anchored.

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[eyriq]

Huh? We watched that treadmill team for 7 years. Weltham wasted 3 years “evaluating”.

Ok, fair enough.

2013-15 were rebuild years
2016-21 were try and figure it out years

The whole era was a disaster. I guess they don't deserve much credit for blowing it up, it was a real steaming pile of ****.

[NavalAviator94]

Yeah, it was Vuc and Fournier that forced AG to shoot the fadeaways which he loved but had about 15% ssuccess rate...Your obsession with them is beyond parody at this point.

Do you think it's possible that Vuc and Fournier make players around them worse?

Did Boston even make the playoffs with Fournier? Then NY looked like an up-and-coming team until they signed him.

Chicago looks like a version of the Magic teams that Vuc anchored.

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NY's record with Fournier was 6-7 and with Fournier on the Bench NY is 5-6. Fournier isn't the problem although he clearly struggles with inconsistent minutes as Thibs was looking for things with all the different lineups.

Vuc is also not the reason for Chicago's problems. They aren't moving the ball, they're losing by like 9 3's a game I read somewhere? And Lavine is shooting.42% from the field. Add in the regression it seems from some of their young guys and you can see why they're struggling. They really need Ball to come back or this team needs to dig deeper and find some sort of offensive rhythm. They've beaten Boston and Milwaukee.

[basketballRob]

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[pepe1991]

BS agenda as usual from BSrob

It's not even worth engaging into it. He claimed Bamba will average 20-10 in nba for 4 years

For people who actually understand basketball it's not hard to see history of Thib to see cycle that repeats itself every time.

Starts well, overworks starters, they get hurt, he stiffs rotations even more, he puts people in doghouse for whatever reason, over time loses team and gets fired due beefs with just about everybody. Happend in Chicago, happend in Minessota, happening in NY. It's his MO. Just like everybody knows he has his favorites who he is biased about. His over a top love for mediocrity named Taj Gipson is well documented. He brought him on each and every team he was part of. Despite Taj being nothing more but undersized C who game left behind 20 years ago.


Bulls have no starting level PF nor PG due Ball being hurt and Pat Will being flat out mediocre/bad. And there is Lavine problem. Guy averaged 19 shots for 20 ppg last month. And he can't play all the time due previous ACL tear. And Derozan is year older, and Vuc is year older. But nothing hurts them more than Ball injury.

This isn't just Knicks- Bulls issue. Miami is playing poorly as well, Toronto has massive issues as well, Hawks coach and best player aren't talking, Nuggets look like team that is missing something, Clippers have major issue with Kawhi, Warriors just menaged to got over .500, Minessota is falling aparat as one of most expensive PF-C duos don't fit...

Apart from Celtics, Bucks, Cavs, Grizzlies, Suns and Pelicans it seems like majority of a league is playing mediocre basketball and is stuck around .500

For crying out loud, Kings are one of best nba teams

[Skybox]

Man, I love watching Donovan Mitchell…I wish we had emptied the vault for him. Amway crowds would be on the edge of their seats again…He’s electric!

[tooler]

SGA one-upping Paolo tonight with 4-14 FG and 17-19 FT.