DPOY and All-Defense Thread 2023 (FINAL poll reset)

[cupcakesnake]

Early season discussion thread for who's good on defense this year and deserves award consideration for DPOY and the All-Defensive teams. It's never too early to talk about DEFENSE!

10 options this early in the season leaves a lot of guys off, so pump up your guy and I'll change the poll around eventually.

I tried to make the list have as many guys who I've heard get early season buzz. Apologies to mainstays: Marcus Smart, Rudy Gobert, and Draymond. Your defenses aren't good right now and some of those guys are being outplayed defensively by their own teammates.

Other guys who have buzz and should be on the list: Andrew Wiggins, Jayson Tatum, Jrue Holiday, PJ Tucker, Evan Mobley, Joel Embiid, Herb Jones, Jevon Carter, Larry Nance Jr, Pascal Siakam, Ivica Zubac, DFS, Dillon Brooks, Clint Capela, Onyeka Okongwu, Alex Caruso, Jaren Jackson Jr., Draymond Green, Marcus Smart, De'Anthony Melton.



1st Poll results (pre-Christmas):
OG Anunoby 24%
Brook Lopez 17%
Giannis 16%
Jarrett Allen 11%
Other 11%

2nd Poll results (January 22)
OG Anunoby 22%
Jaren Jackson Jr. 18%
Brook Lopez 13%
Giannis 11%
Nic Claxton 10%
Other 10%
Bam Adebayo 7%
Joel Embiid 6%

3rd Poll Results (March 17th)
Jaren Jackson Jr. 20%
Giannis 17%
Other 14%
Brook Lopez 12%
Nic Claxton 10%
Bam Adebayo 9%
Joel Embiid 7%

[BAMAFREAK]

Jaren Jackson Jr. The block panther

[timO]

Evan Mobley

[cupcakesnake]

Jaren Jackson Jr. The block panther

He's picked up right where he left off, but has only played 8 games so far this season.
He'll be in the DPOY conversation (this year and every year) as long as he stays healthy

[ATLTimekeeper]

I put my vote in for Jarrett Allen, because I like the idea of best defender on the best defensive team and he's covering for some weak links like Mitchell, Garland and LaVert.

OG is doing serious work right now, but there aren't really any weak defenders on that team and they still aren't near the top.

[ijspeelman]

As much as I love the Cavs guys, I think its gotta be Brook if it ended today. He's been an unreal drop big and super mobile for his size and leading the way for the number two defense in the league (behind my Cavs). Obviously Giannis helps with their defensive rating, but just watch Lopez. He's crazy.

[yoyoboy]

The Cavs have the #1 defense despite guys like Mitchell, Love, Garland, LeVert, and Cedi playing heavy minutes. And the only other defense in the league that’s close is Milwaukee, and they have Holiday, Carter, and a cast of other solid defensive players to support Lopez and Giannis. So I don’t see how the frontrunner isn’t one of Allen or Mobley at this point.

Brook is awesome, but he wouldn’t be able to get away with dropping so far down in the paint if he didn’t have the defenders up top that he does. He’s just not asked to do as much as a guy like Allen is for this team where he has to cover a lot of space across the floor as well as protect the rim.

[spanishninja]

Jaren Jackson Jr. The block panther

He's picked up right where he left off, but has only played 8 games so far this season.
He'll be in the DPOY conversation (this year and every year) as long as he stays healthy

health (along with fouls) has always been his downfall. haven't seen any reason to change my mind on that yet.

[cupcakesnake]

I put my vote in for Jarrett Allen, because I like the idea of best defender on the best defensive team and he's covering for some weak links like Mitchell, Garland and LaVert.

OG is doing serious work right now, but there aren't really any weak defenders on that team and they still aren't near the top.

Eh they've managed to stay around a top 10 defense without a primary rim protector and without a lot of their strong defenders:
Siakam, Precious, Otto have all missed half the season or more. FVV has been banged up. GTH's offense

So when we look at Toronto's defense, it's been a whole lot of OG holding the fort down.

But I have Jarrett Allen (with OG and Brook) as a top candidate as well so no argument there.

[cupcakesnake]

The Cavs have the #1 defense despite guys like Mitchell, Love, Garland, LeVert, and Cedi playing heavy minutes. And the only other defense in the league that’s close is Milwaukee, and they have Holiday, Carter, and a cast of other solid defensive players to support Lopez and Giannis. So I don’t see how the frontrunner isn’t one of Allen or Mobley at this point.

Brook is awesome, but he wouldn’t be able to get away with dropping so far down in the paint if he didn’t have the defenders up top that he does. He’s just not asked to do as much as a guy like Allen is for this team where he has to cover a lot of space across the floor as well as protect the rim.

Brook and Giannis vs. Mobley and Allen is a fun comparison.

I agree that the Bucks have a whole lot more going on in their backcourt. Both teams are a little smooshy on the wing, though Milwaukee still has an edge there if Middleton is looking okay.

Brook's block numbers will lift up his DPOY case, but Giannis being on his team will have a lot of voters preferring the starrier name. In terms of Brook vs. Allen, Brook looks a little more solid in drop and pure rim protection, but Allen covers a lot more ground with his foot speed and athleticism.

I have Brook and Allen ahead of Mobley and Giannis, I obviously think that role is simply more valuable/impactful. But Mobley and Giannis are legit candidates regardless.

[Ron Swanson]

If you're gonna reward the Cavs for being the current #1 defense then it's Jarret Allen by a country mile. Because Mobley's been straight up bad so far this season (they're +8.5 points-per-100 better on defense when he sits). He's certainly not playing at an All-Defense level, let alone being worthy of in the discussion for DPOTY.

[God Squad]

My three went as follows
J.Allen
OG
Brook

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Bucks homer derailing - Crazy to think Bucks have 2 of the top 5 defenders in the league, then you have Jrue as probably on some All-D team, Carter as the 4th defender being an absolute pest and then Midds being the weak link but someone who can turn it up on D when needed.

[Duke4life831]

Brook Lopez has been the most impactful defender I’ve seen so far this year

[danvato]

20 players mentioned, not even a he's having a good season for nic claxton?

[cupcakesnake]

If you're gonna reward the Cavs for being the current #1 defense then it's Jarret Allen by a country mile. Because Mobley's been straight up bad so far this season (they're +8.5 points-per-100 better on defense when he sits). He's certainly not playing at an All-Defense level, let alone being worthy of in the discussion for DPOTY.

I don't agree with just using on/off as a hard indicator for defensive success. If you're going to do lineup based on/off analysis, you have to dig through a lot before you really have an explanation for why. Sometimes a player is used to stabilize bad defensive lineups. In non-Allen minutes, Cleveland likes to use Mobley and Okoro to balance out heavy offensive lineups (usually with some combination of Love, Osman, Garland, Mitchell, or Levert). Being on the floor in strong defensive lineups sometimes causes on-off to make someone look better than they are, and vice versa. Whenever Mobley isn't out there, Jarrett Allen is, and he's been arguably the DPOY this year. Jarrett Allen has been on the floor for half the minutes that Mobley has been off.

[cupcakesnake]

20 players mentioned, not even a he's having a good season for nic claxton?

There's nothing stopping you from doing it!

I've been avoiding watching the Nets a bit this year. I think I've seen 3 games, and one of those was an unfortunate matchup for Claxton (against the Kings and Sabonis just treated him like a teenager). But I thought of Claxton when making the list. He's always been a fantastic switch defender, and Brooklyn has been solidifying on defense.

[TravisScott55]

OG is the leader in the clubhouse

[yoyoboy]

If you're gonna reward the Cavs for being the current #1 defense then it's Jarret Allen by a country mile. Because Mobley's been straight up bad so far this season (they're +8.5 points-per-100 better on defense when he sits). He's certainly not playing at an All-Defense level, let alone being worthy of in the discussion for DPOTY.

Mobley’s been “bad” on defense? This seems like a wild statement to make especially if you’re just basing it off of a quarter-season’s worth of noisy plus-minus data.

The Cavs have the #1 defense in the league. Most people are comfortable saying Mitchell, Garland, Love, LeVert, etc, are bad defenders or at least below average. The team has limited defenders with real wing size. It’s really not possible for Mobley to also be a legitimately negative defender considering the personnel on the team coupled with the team-level results the Cavs are getting. Because you look at the 2nd ranked defense in Milwaukee and they have Lopez, Giannis, Holiday, Carter, and now even Middleton to a lesser extent yet they’re still not as good on defense as a team that in your eyes only has Allen? It doesn’t make sense.

Yeah, the Cavs are around 9 points per 100 better defensively with Mobley on the bench this season. But opponents are also shooting 38.3% from 3 with Mobley on and 26.0% from 3 with him off. Is Kevin Love, the backup at the 4, managing to shut down all these shooters? Even though he notoriously doesn’t even close out and instead parks in the paint waiting for the rebound (and this is coming from a big Love fan but I’m just being honest). Or is opponent 3P% simply highly variable and truthfully takes multiple seasons to regress to the mean. It’s pretty obvious Mobley is just at the wrong end of noisy lineups and opponent shooting so far. His ability to cover ground so effectively and be a terrifying help defender are big reasons why we’re so good on defense despite playing such a small backcourt. In the 5 game stretch that Allen recently missed before last game where Mobley played center, the Cavs posted a 99.6 DRTG.

Allen is still the most impactful defender on the team and my current frontrunner for DPOY. I would place Lopez second. But I still think Mobley deserves to make an All-Defensive team, regardless of the plus-minus numbers.

[Son Goku 25]

OG