With the insane level of talent in the league right now are we likely to see fewer dominant and fewer really bad teams?

[ardee]

It is legitimately bonkers how loaded the league is right now.

You have at least 8 guys who all have legitimate top 5 cases: Giannis, Jokic, Curry, Luka, Tatum, Embiid, AD, Durant, and then on the outside of that you have Shai, Zion, Booker, Mitchell, Brown, Morant and Siakam all absolutely tearing it up too.

That's not even mentioning guys like LeBron, Kawhi, PG, Lillard, Kyrie, Harden and Trae who have had various factors limiting their level of play so far. A guy like Tyrese Haliburton might not even be a top 25 player and that is just a testament to how many good players there are right now.

To win 65+ games you need a competitive edge in terms of talent and to be really bad (<25 wins) you need to have a pretty poor roster. Now it seems increasingly like most teams have at least 1-2 really good players, and there are more coming in each successive draft class. Does anyone else think we're going to enter a phase of league history where a lot of teams have 45-48 wins and the 1 seed might have 55 since each game is going to be so hard fought?

[Dutchball97]

There was some news in the last few days how the most teams ever are around .500 at the quarter point of the season. It's definitely reasonable to see more parity happening in the upcoming years. The middle of the pack will likely be more bunched up and play-off spots are more hotly contested.

However there will still be outliers. Last year there were 5 teams with 25 wins or less, while the top record was held by the Suns with 64 wins. This season so far there are once again 5 teams on pace for 25 wins or less (Magic, Spurs, Pistons, Hornets, Rockets), while the Celtics are on pace for a better record than the Suns last year with the Bucks also on 60+ win pace.

[HeartBreakKid]

this thread is made every year at this point in the season.

[penbeast0]

I think you will continue to see a few teams (maybe 5?) deliberately tanking under the incentives the league has set up. Some others will be bad but not tanking (the Wizards for example), then over half the league seriously competing.

[70sFan]

this thread is made every year at this point in the season.

Yeah, I think I even remember ardee making similar thread a few years ago. The league is definitely stacked with talent, but let's not forget that someone like Siakam, Booker or Mitchell won't be remembered after 20 years.

[Laimbeer]

As a Piston fan I can assure you there are bad teams.

[Colbinii]

this thread is made every year at this point in the season.

Yeah, I think I even remember ardee making similar thread a few years ago. The league is definitely stacked with talent, but let's not forget that someone like Siakam, Booker or Mitchell won't be remembered after 20 years.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2191134&hilit=level+of+talent

[Colbinii]

this thread is made every year at this point in the season.

Yeah, I think I even remember ardee making similar thread a few years ago. The league is definitely stacked with talent, but let's not forget that someone like Siakam, Booker or Mitchell won't be remembered after 20 years.

I will say this about Devin Booker--it looks like he has made a leap this year from a Mitch Richmond level player to closer to Clyde Drexler level player (Think average Prime Season). Not a huge sample size but Booker is going to have an incredible amount of "Career Totals" given his early start of his career and high usage rate since a rookie.

Devin Booker already has more regular season points than Kawhi Leonard.

[1993Playoffs]

this thread is made every year at this point in the season.

Yeah, I think I even remember ardee making similar thread a few years ago. The league is definitely stacked with talent, but let's not forget that someone like Siakam, Booker or Mitchell won't be remembered after 20 years.

Why won’t they?

[70sFan]

this thread is made every year at this point in the season.

Yeah, I think I even remember ardee making similar thread a few years ago. The league is definitely stacked with talent, but let's not forget that someone like Siakam, Booker or Mitchell won't be remembered after 20 years.

Why won’t they?

Because nobody remembers Paul Pressey, Gus Williams or Mark Aguirre now.

[AEnigma]

Even ignoring the extreme presumptuousness of the claim, if we can still nostalgically think back to Derrick Coleman and Elton Brand and Walter Davis and Hersey Hawkins, I doubt team leaders like Siakam or Booker or Mitchell are in the slightest danger.

[AEnigma]

Yeah, I think I even remember ardee making similar thread a few years ago. The league is definitely stacked with talent, but let's not forget that someone like Siakam, Booker or Mitchell won't be remembered after 20 years.

Why won’t they?

Because nobody remembers Paul Pressey, Gus Williams or Mark Aguirre now.

That group combined for five all-star appearances and two all-NBA. Unless you think it is all downhill for that trio you list, they are well past that pace.

[70sFan]

Why won’t they?

Because nobody remembers Paul Pressey, Gus Williams or Mark Aguirre now.

That group combined for five all-star appearances and two all-NBA. Unless you think it is all downhill for that trio you list, they are well past that pace.

I mean, it's not direct comparison. All players that were less than top tier are forgotten among most basketball fans, you can exchange my names to a different ones if you wish.

[AEnigma]

Because nobody remembers Paul Pressey, Gus Williams or Mark Aguirre now.

That group combined for five all-star appearances and two all-NBA. Unless you think it is all downhill for that trio you list, they are well past that pace.

I mean, it's not direct comparison. All players that were less than top tier are forgotten among most basketball fans, you can exchange my names to a different ones if you wish.

So what is the relevance? Fine, the average casual fan memory is short and only can keep a few key players in their mind. But seems meaningful how high the calibre of “fringe-all-star” is compared to eras past, even if they ultimately fail to stick in the collective memory because of how memory works.

[70sFan]

That group combined for five all-star appearances and two all-NBA. Unless you think it is all downhill for that trio you list, they are well past that pace.

I mean, it's not direct comparison. All players that were less than top tier are forgotten among most basketball fans, you can exchange my names to a different ones if you wish.

So what is the relevance? Fine, the average casual fan memory is short and only can keep a few key players in their mind. But seems meaningful how high the calibre of “fringe-all-star” is compared to eras past, even if they ultimately fail to stick in the collective memory because of how memory works.

The relevance is that we always forget how good fringe all-stars were in older eras. Pascal Siakam is a really good player, but nobody would use him as an example of "insane talent" had he played in the 1970s.

[AEnigma]

I mean, it's not direct comparison. All players that were less than top tier are forgotten among most basketball fans, you can exchange my names to a different ones if you wish.

So what is the relevance? Fine, the average casual fan memory is short and only can keep a few key players in their mind. But seems meaningful how high the calibre of “fringe-all-star” is compared to eras past, even if they ultimately fail to stick in the collective memory because of how memory works.

The relevance is that we always forget how good fringe all-stars were in older eras. Pascal Siakam is a really good player, but nobody would use him as an example of "insane talent" had he played in the 1970s.

Strong strong strong disagree. You think someone averaging 24/9/7 would not be cited obsessively? George McGinnis won an MVP doing that!

Centre play has maintained well. Maybe could argue declined depending on your framing. But pretty much every other position has seen huge leaps in quality of play. I like Gus Williams a lot, but he was probably the second best guard in the league at his peak, and I do not see him coming close to that level today. Bob Dandridge was one of the top forwards; again, like him as a player, but certainly not today.

[Cavsfansince84]

this thread is made every year at this point in the season.

Yeah, I think I even remember ardee making similar thread a few years ago. The league is definitely stacked with talent, but let's not forget that someone like Siakam, Booker or Mitchell won't be remembered after 20 years.

idk about this, its sort of relative to who you are talking about. I mean I think most of us remember someone like Joe Dumars quite well and its mainly because he was a big part of title teams. So if Booker or Mitchell play on a title team I think they automatically will be remembered more because of that and I think both are good enough to make an impression on average fans. Anyone who makes a few all star games tends to be remembered imo. I can remember most any player that made an all star team in the 80's or 90's minus a few who I didn't get to see much of and that was when far less games were televised or we had the internet.

[70sFan]

Strong strong strong disagree. You think someone averaging 24/9/7 would not be cited obsessively? George McGinnis won an MVP doing that!

I mean, you're proving my point - nobody remembers McGinnis now, outside of hardcore NBA history fans. Nobody says that the 1970s was full of talent, because McGinnis played in that era.

Centre play has maintained well. Maybe could argue declined depending on your framing. But pretty much every other position has seen huge leaps in quality of play. I like Gus Williams a lot, but he was probably the second best guard in the league at his peak, and I do not see him coming close to that level today. Bob Dandridge was one of the top forwards; again, like him as a player, but certainly not today.

That's not what I'm arguing though. it seems that you miss my point.

[colts18]

Siakam is going to be easily forgotten in 20 years. Hell he is forgotten now and he won a title. How many people still remember and talk about Vin Baker, Steve Francis, Alex English, Glen Rice, or Danny Manning? Not many. Tom Chambers was a star player and he is forgotten outside of one dunk.

[70sFan]

Siakam is going to be easily forgotten in 20 years. Hell he is forgotten now and he won a title. How many people still remember and talk about Vin Baker, Steve Francis, Alex English, Glen Rice, or Danny Manning? Not many. Tom Chambers was a star player and he is forgotten outside of one dunk.

That's my point exactly.