General Blue Jays Thread

[Schad]

Will wait on the terms to see just how much we paid (and almost certainly overpaid given the market), but Kiermaier is the exact profile of the kind of player this team needed. They’ve been a complete disaster in the outfield for years now defensively and it has cost them games (including very clearly the last game of the season last year). He may not be the best defender in the league any longer but he’s still an enormous upgrade on what they had out there (Springer can barely move anymore).

I’d expect he will play every day against RHPs in CF this year.

Agreed. Unless the numbers are nuts, this is a very good addition. When healthy, Kiermaier is extremely productive. He has a career 4.52 fWAR/650, which is downright spectacular. His splits/health reduce the impact somewhat, but at the same time, he provides a lot of value in a position and with the sort of profile that works perfectly with the rest of our lineup.

If it's a short-term deal, this is probably the most sensible option available.

[bluerap23]

Will wait on the terms to see just how much we paid (and almost certainly overpaid given the market), but Kiermaier is the exact profile of the kind of player this team needed. They’ve been a complete disaster in the outfield for years now defensively and it has cost them games (including very clearly the last game of the season last year). He may not be the best defender in the league any longer but he’s still an enormous upgrade on what they had out there (Springer can barely move anymore).

I’d expect he will play every day against RHPs in CF this year.

Agreed. Unless the numbers are nuts, this is a very good addition. When healthy, Kiermaier is extremely productive. He has a career 4.52 fWAR/650, which is downright spectacular. His splits/health reduce the impact somewhat, but at the same time, he provides a lot of value in a position and with the sort of profile that works perfectly with the rest of our lineup.

If it's a short-term deal, this is probably the most sensible option available.

When was the last time he was healthy?

[Schad]

When was the last time he was healthy?

2021. For what it's worth, Kiermaier has played in 100+ games 5 times in 9 seasons. Brandon Nimmo, who just signed for $160m, has played in 100+ games 2 times in 6 seasons.

[Raps in 4]

This is a good move if the contract is reasonable. This team doesn't need more offence. I couldn't care less about replacing Teo's bat. We needed defence in the outfield, and this move gives us that. The only question mark is his health. He's made of glass and just had hip surgery. Will his defensive production take a hit? Can he stay healthy? Again, if the contract is reasonable, I'm fine with the risk.

[Cyrus]

This hopefully viewed internally the Jackie Bradley/Zimmer replacement, and not some sort of Teo type replacement. Good to use as 6-7th inning defense sub, and against RH, but sort of meh on it. And i hope we didn't have to over pay for him. Basically I'm vary on anyone that Tampa Turns down, they make the right moves like every time basically. So if they thought 14 mill for 1 year was too rich, not sure how I feel on a multi-year 2 or 3, 25 mill or whatever.

[SharoneWright]

Always admired his game. Glad to be able to cheer for him.

[bluerap23]

When was the last time he was healthy?

2021. For what it's worth, Kiermaier has played in 100+ games 5 times in 9 seasons. Brandon Nimmo, who just signed for $160m, has played in 100+ games 2 times in 6 seasons.

He’s played in 100 games twice in the last six years

[Schad]

When was the last time he was healthy?

2021. For what it's worth, Kiermaier has played in 100+ games 5 times in 9 seasons. Brandon Nimmo, who just signed for $160m, has played in 100+ games 2 times in 6 seasons.

He’s played in 100 games twice in the last six years

Indeed, Kiermaier and Nimmo have played about the same number of games in the past six years. Which is a bit concerning for the team giving one of them $160m, which thankfully wasn't us.

[Lateral Quicks]

Very underwhelming. He'll be coming off hip surgery and any step back with the bat would make him borderline unplayable. On the other hand, if he can keep up his trademark defense and hold his own against RHP, he could be a useful player.

I hope we didn't make a long-term commitment.

A Kiermaier/Merrfield platoon in the 3rd outfield spot would not inspire confidence. That would mean you'd have plenty of days with both bats in the lineup... ugghh...

[bluerap23]

2021. For what it's worth, Kiermaier has played in 100+ games 5 times in 9 seasons. Brandon Nimmo, who just signed for $160m, has played in 100+ games 2 times in 6 seasons.

He’s played in 100 games twice in the last six years

Indeed, Kiermaier and Nimmo have played about the same number of games in the past six years. Which is a bit concerning for the team giving one of them $160m, which thankfully wasn't us.

I’ve never supported signing Nimmo.

Teoscar, on the other hand has played at least 125 games for the last 4 regular seasons. 50/60 in the Covid year.

It is concerning if the plan is to replace Teo with Kiermaier

For a more sobering view on the downgrade https://stoeten.substack.com/p/the-jays-have-signed-kevin-kiermaier

[Cyrus]

Crazy we still don't know the term and dollars yet. Our writers have no sources?

[James_Raptors]

I'm very curious as well as any subsequent moves we make (via trade possibly?)

[polo007]

Rosenthal: What I’m hearing about how the MLB free-agent market is evolving - The Athletic

• Yes, the Pirates are willing to entertain moving center fielder Bryan Reynolds, if only because clubs are almost always willing to listen to trade offers. Teams interested in Reynolds, however, say the price tag is similar to what it was in the past — exceedingly high.

One rival official, in what surely was an exaggeration, said the Pirates want a “Soto-type package” for Reynolds. Another said Reynolds is “super expensive.” A third described him as “unlikely to move.”

• The Diamondbacks, on the other hand, seem likely to trade one of their left-handed hitting center fielders — Daulton Varsho, Alek Thomas or Jake McCarthy (as reported earlier, Corbin Carroll, the most highly regarded of their emerging outfielders, is not in play).

The Yankees, Rangers, Blue Jays, Rays and Marlins are among the teams chasing young outfielders in trades. So are the Reds, as I explain in the item below. But with the Diamondbacks seeking major-league-ready help, it’s difficult to see how the Reds could entice them.

• OK, about the Reds. One rival official says they are aggressively pursuing trades in which they work off their surplus of shortstop prospects to acquire outfielders with similar upside. Even if none of those deals come to fruition, the Reds’ stable of young infielders, bolstered by the additions of Noelvi Marte and Edwin Arroyo in the Luis Castillo trade, gives the team numerous options going forward.

The Reds’ top five prospects and seven of their top eight are infielders, according to Baseball America’s latest rankings, which will be published this week. For now, the Reds are dealing with the glut by trying some of their shortstops at other positions.

Elly De La Cruz played third base and Matt McLain played second at Double A last season to make room for each other at short. Marte played third in the Arizona Fall League and Jose Barrero appeared in seven major-league games in center field in 2021. De La Cruz also is a possibility in center — he runs well, covers ground and has good instincts, Reds people say.

[Randle McMurphy]

He’s played in 100 games twice in the last six years

Indeed, Kiermaier and Nimmo have played about the same number of games in the past six years. Which is a bit concerning for the team giving one of them $160m, which thankfully wasn't us.

I’ve never supported signing Nimmo.

Teoscar, on the other hand has played at least 125 games for the last 4 regular seasons. 50/60 in the Covid year.

It is concerning if the plan is to replace Teo with Kiermaier

For a more sobering view on the downgrade https://stoeten.substack.com/p/the-jays-have-signed-kevin-kiermaier

I read that a few days back and didn't agree with Stoeten's take or tone at all. Kiermaier is hell of a lot better than he's giving him credit for and it ignores a very clear need being addressed with this roster through his addition. Calling him Tapia with a glove isn't respecting just how incredibly elite a defender he's been in his career. It's also just December 12th, so the overall negativity about the offseason also makes little sense.

Honestly, he's probably still just down about the Dutch loss in penalties last week.

[bluerap23]

Indeed, Kiermaier and Nimmo have played about the same number of games in the past six years. Which is a bit concerning for the team giving one of them $160m, which thankfully wasn't us.

I’ve never supported signing Nimmo.

Teoscar, on the other hand has played at least 125 games for the last 4 regular seasons. 50/60 in the Covid year.

It is concerning if the plan is to replace Teo with Kiermaier

For a more sobering view on the downgrade https://stoeten.substack.com/p/the-jays-have-signed-kevin-kiermaier

I read that a few days back and didn't agree with Stoeten's take or tone at all. Kiermaier is hell of a lot better than he's giving him credit for and it ignores a very clear need being addressed with this roster through his addition. Calling him Tapia with a glove isn't respecting just how incredibly elite a defender he's been in his career. It's also just December 12th, so the overall negativity about the offseason also makes little sense.

Honestly, he's probably still just down about the Dutch loss in penalties last week.

Even if he didn’t get excited enough about his elite d, the facts are accurate. Kiermaier doesn’t hit and is injured all the time. Though I’m surprised the comparison to JBJ isn’t made, since his overall game is a lot more similar than it is to Tapia.

Regardless, he doesn’t come close to replacing Teo. If he is the 4th OF and paid like it, no problem. Let’s see what the contract is and if they get something else in the OF.

[Randle McMurphy]

I’ve never supported signing Nimmo.

Teoscar, on the other hand has played at least 125 games for the last 4 regular seasons. 50/60 in the Covid year.

It is concerning if the plan is to replace Teo with Kiermaier

For a more sobering view on the downgrade https://stoeten.substack.com/p/the-jays-have-signed-kevin-kiermaier

I read that a few days back and didn't agree with Stoeten's take or tone at all. Kiermaier is hell of a lot better than he's giving him credit for and it ignores a very clear need being addressed with this roster through his addition. Calling him Tapia with a glove isn't respecting just how incredibly elite a defender he's been in his career. It's also just December 12th, so the overall negativity about the offseason also makes little sense.

Honestly, he's probably still just down about the Dutch loss in penalties last week.

Even if he didn’t get excited enough about his elite d, the facts are accurate. Kiermaier doesn’t hit and is injured all the time. Though I’m surprised the comparison to JBJ isn’t made, since his overall game is a lot more similar than it is to Tapia.

Regardless, he doesn’t come close to replacing Teo. If he is the 4th OF and paid like it, no problem. Let’s see what the contract is and if they get something else in the OF.

Kiermaier has never hit and has been injured all the time and has still been the more valuable player than Teoscar since Teoscar entered the league due to his ridiculous defense. The guy is one of the best outfield defenders in baseball history. A fairly important point that was seemingly lost in that.

And the goal isn't to "replace Teoscar." The goal is to build a team that is overall in the aggregate good enough to win a championship. Adding Kiermaier to a team with one of the worst outfield defenses in the league is going to help them do that.

There's also little chance he's going to be a 4th OF for the Jays considering how good he is and what his value is when he's been on the field in his career. Barring some other surprise significant addition, I have to think he'll start most days against RHPs in CF and the team will be miles better defensively for it. Now I would hope that they'll sign another outfielder due to just how injury prone Kiemaier and Springer are (and so that a player as bad as Tapia doesn't get that kind of run again this year), but I wouldn't expect such a player to take away major playing time from either when they are healthy.

[brwnman]

I've always had an issue with WAR when it comes to defense, because I don't think the assigned "value" is appropriate. If a player's WAR is mainly derived from their defense, I tend to feel the player is overrated. CF is definitely a position you need to have a strong defender but when using WAR, KK and Pillar were 4th and 9th respectively in overall WAR in 2015 (I know it's a long time ago but just using this as an example). However, no one is going to truly believe they were the 4th and 9th most valuable player in the league that year. Truth is, they played a premium position and were exceptional defenders. This has value, but WAR is "busted" when it comes to the true value of those players.

Let's assume 100% health of all players, I dont see KK & Springer being more valuable to the Jays than Springer + Teo in 2023. KK is the perfect type of player you should acquire mid-season to shore up your defense for the stretch run and put in there for defense late in games. I think if Springer was a stiff in CF, this would be something that the Jays would need to do. This is to protect Springer from diving in the OF and hurting himself, but I don't think anyone expects him to make it through a full season regardless and with KK's injury history, it is concerning regardless.

Personally, I think the Jays miscalculated the market (FA and trade market). They thought they could either be in the race for Nimmo (bullet dodged), or be able to acquire an OF at a relatively low cost. They didn't think the market would go haywire, and they have considerably less to spend than they anticipated because the extensions for Vlad, Bo and Manoah are going to cost a lot more now. I wasn't against a trade of Teo, but I think we sold him too cheaply. Having him as a trade chip now, his 1yr contract seems like a bargain and I think we'd be able to get more value out of that. Jays are in a tough spot with needing to move a catcher and teams know it, and one of their trade partners just went out and signed a catcher (STL) leaving them with one less suitor. There's still time, but I think it'll be an underwhelming offseason unless Jays decide they don't care about a budget and sign players without worrying about what the back half of their contracts look like.

[polo007]

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[polo007]

Blue Jays add Kevin Kiermaier to outfield, but offseason picture still incomplete - The Athletic

Signs suggest the Blue Jays are planning for more impactful additions, including aiming for another left-handed outfielder, a starting pitcher and perhaps more bullpen reinforcements. The Kiermaier deal is one part of a still-to-be-completed plan. The order in which that plan comes together won’t matter as long as they address all their priorities. The cabinets sometimes get delivered before the countertops.

Kiermaier’s deal is pending a physical. The exact terms of the 32-year-old’s contract were not immediately known, although it’s believed to be a short-term deal. The signing was first reported by Sportsnet’s Shi Davidi and subsequently confirmed via major-league sources by The Athletic.

Of roster positions, the outfield is an area where the Blue Jays have had to do the most rebuilding ahead of the 2023 season. Veteran outfielder Jackie Bradley Jr. departed in free agency, Hernández was traded and both Raimel Tapia and Bradley Zimmer were non-tendered.

Kiermaier joins an outfield group that includes regulars Lourdes Gurriel Jr. and George Springer, with Cavan Biggio and Whit Merrifield functioning as utility types who can fill in as well. Nathan Lukes and Otto Lopez are 40-man depth.

A team priority this offseason has been run prevention and Kiermaier’s elite defence — he’s put up above-average defensive metrics since his first regular season in 2014 — should be a difference-maker for the Blue Jays, which sported the 18th-ranked outfield defence in 2022.

[Michael Bradley]

The terms of the deal might change my opinion, but adding Kiermaier in isolation is a positive, IMO. The best (only?) CF prospect in the system is Dasan Brown and he's years away. Kiermaier is a legitimately great defensive CF and good baserunner who hits well enough (~90 wRC+) to be a passable starting OF. He's older now and coming off a hip issue, so there's no guarantee that he can maintain that level, but the Jays are so devoid of outfielders that it's a reasonable gamble to take.

I would assume that there's going to be one more outfield acquisition, and Kiermaier will move into the Tapia role where he will get 400+ plate appearances while the team rotates players around the DH spot. Conforto would be a great fit. Can do an outfield of Gurriel-Springer-Conforto some nights, or Conforto-Kiermaier-Springer, or Gurriel-Kiermaier-Conforto with Springer at DH, etc.