2022-2023 Regular Season Game 28: Toronto Raptors (13-13) at Orlando (7-20) - 6pm

[Redphilly]

What’s wrong with Suggs?

[basketballRob]

What’s wrong with Suggs?

He broke his ankle during the offseason and is still having pain.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Knightro]

What’s wrong with Suggs?

He broke his ankle during the offseason and is still having pain.

This isn't totally accurate.

Suggs sprained his ankle twice last year. They did an MRI at the end of the season and discovered he actually had suffered a stress fracture. He had surgery on it shortly after the regular season.

He came to camp totally healthy with no restrictions or pain.

Then he sprained the same ankle on October 21 in Atlanta. He missed 5 games and a total of 11 days. He returned on November 1 and played 12 more games with no real issues before spraining the ankle again on November 25 in Indiana.

He has missed a total of 17 days and counting with this new ankle injury.

4 ankle sprains and ankle surgery on the same ankle in 9 months.

It's not NOT concerning.

[RookieStar]

Im readong the Raps board and they are already claiming that Franz >>>>> Barnes.

The only worse thing i think would have been if Suggs wasnt injured and out-produced Scottie.

They’re in full depression mode, best to leave them alone. Enthusiastic acceptance seems to be their coping strategy, hah.

We should be more worried they go full tank and start threatening our draft pick. But I think that’s a low risk.

Naaah, I don't post in the Raps board anymore. I just think they are overreacting to what is an obvious sophomore-slump. I mean they have to hop that it is just that because the alternative is so much worse.

[RookieStar]

Barnes always felt overrrated simply because he was drafted into a competent organization. He'll be a meaningful and helpful player but he has zero star ability. Same could probably be said about Franz but Franz is simply way more more skilled than Barnes.

This is what I said from the beginning.

Give a rookie 4 competent vets, that have recently been a deep playoff team, and a bunch of minutes and they’ll look like a RoY.

He looked a bit disinterested and a like he was carrying some bad weight to me.(face and neck seemed a bit plump)

My personal theory is he is really injured or just not 100%. Also, since they are fighting for a PO-spot, they really rush or force players to play unlike us who keeps players out if they just cut their fingernails wrong.

[RookieStar]

I have been over to the Toronto board. I really admire their passion. I like the Magic along with a few other teams, but cannot generate the kind of passion that many Toronto fans have.

WTS, what separates Franz and Banchero is their offensive footwork, They put on a offensive footwork master class of footwork on almost every night.

All players learn good footwork. Many apply what they have learned to the games. However, Franz and Banchero actually trust their footwork, That is a completely different level and most players never learn to trust their footwork until their talent has taken a dive.

To have 2 young players on the same team that trust their offensive footwork is really rare. If they stay healthy (I know, this is the magic), the sky is the limit for them. Really good to see for Magic fans.

I think you forget something else.... for 6'10-6'11 guys, their handles are some of the best. Dribbling through traffic they aren't forced to pick up their dribbles and thus could swerve through the obstacles going to the hoop.

[jezzerinho]

I have been over to the Toronto board. I really admire their passion. I like the Magic along with a few other teams, but cannot generate the kind of passion that many Toronto fans have.

WTS, what separates Franz and Banchero is their offensive footwork, They put on a offensive footwork master class of footwork on almost every night.

All players learn good footwork. Many apply what they have learned to the games. However, Franz and Banchero actually trust their footwork, That is a completely different level and most players never learn to trust their footwork until their talent has taken a dive.

To have 2 young players on the same team that trust their offensive footwork is really rare. If they stay healthy (I know, this is the magic), the sky is the limit for them. Really good to see for Magic fans.

Paolo was on my draft list for the no. 1 pick purely for that sublime footwork. He needs to make his defensive foot speed match his offensive one and we'll be on the pig's back .

[p0peye]

What’s wrong with Suggs?

He broke his ankle during the offseason and is still having pain.

This isn't totally accurate.

Suggs sprained his ankle twice last year. They did an MRI at the end of the season and discovered he actually had suffered a stress fracture. He had surgery on it shortly after the regular season.

He came to camp totally healthy with no restrictions or pain.

Then he sprained the same ankle on October 21 in Atlanta. He missed 5 games and a total of 11 days. He returned on November 1 and played 12 more games with no real issues before spraining the ankle again on November 25 in Indiana.

He has missed a total of 17 days and counting with this new ankle injury.

4 ankle sprains and ankle surgery on the same ankle in 9 months.

It's not NOT concerning.

Steph Curry reborn!

[jezzerinho]

Just rewatched the game and i can safely say that Fultz was straight trash for the vast majority of his minutes. Like rubbish at both ends.

Cole was pretty decent. Defensively he couldn't have tried any harder. With the ball, he did a lot of good stuff. Enough to make you think he can be a good NBA guard. He does need to calm the fúck down tho. A lot of his inefficiency issues come from barreling into tough spots and being forced to take low percentage shots. He needs to slow it down and use footwork to get opponents on his back, so he has more time to play. But the instincts and core talent are good.

[NavalAviator94]

Just rewatched the game and i can safely say that Fultz was straight trash for the vast majority of his minutes. Like rubbish at both ends.

Cole was pretty decent. Defensively he couldn't have tried any harder. With the ball, he did a lot of good stuff. Enough to make you think he can be a good NBA guard. He does need to calm the fúck down tho. A lot of his inefficiency issues come from barreling into tough spots and being forced to take low percentage shots. He needs to slow it down and use footwork to get opponents on his back, so he has more time to play. But the instincts and core talent are good.

Weird that we have the 5th best defense based on points allowed over the last 4 games he’s started at PG. The ball movement is significantly better, turnovers are down and he’s hitting guys in ideal spots, although some are still struggling to finish.

I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

[Bergmaniac]

Just rewatched the game and i can safely say that Fultz was straight trash for the vast majority of his minutes. Like rubbish at both ends.

Cole was pretty decent. Defensively he couldn't have tried any harder. With the ball, he did a lot of good stuff. Enough to make you think he can be a good NBA guard. He does need to calm the fúck down tho. A lot of his inefficiency issues come from barreling into tough spots and being forced to take low percentage shots. He needs to slow it down and use footwork to get opponents on his back, so he has more time to play. But the instincts and core talent are good.

Weird that we have the 5th best defense based on points allowed over the last 4 games he’s started at PG. The ball movement is significantly better, turnovers are down and he’s hitting guys in ideal spots, although some are still struggling to finish.

I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.

Turnovers are way up in the minutes Fultz is playing. It's the main reason our offense has been so underwhelming with him on the court (only 104.5 ORTG despite him playing with at least 2 of our 3 best scorers almost all the time). Take a look at this on/off stats for the last 7 games (since Fultz came back) - https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/onoffcourt-advanced?LastNGames=7&dir=D&sort=TM_TOV_PCT

Turnover rate with Fultz on the court - 21.4 (dreadful, would be by far the worst in the league)
Turnover rate with Fultz off the court - 12.0 (great, would be the best in the league)

This is the main reason the offense has been much better when Fultz has been on the bench in these games. The TS% is fine, but we just turn the ball over way too much.

[basketballRob]

Fultz has been in a bad slump since he's been back. Last season he was much better .

I like Cole off the bench.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[tiderulz]

Fultz has been in a bad slump since he's been back. Last season he was much better .

I like Cole off the bench.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

well, he is playing with new players to him. He had never played with Paolo, and only a few games with Franz.

[zaymon]

Fultz has been in a bad slump since he's been back. Last season he was much better .

I like Cole off the bench.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

well, he is playing with new players to him. He had never played with Paolo, and only a few games with Franz.

Fultz is bad since before he got injured. Real talent shines from the beginning. Franz was great since he arrived, same with Paolo. Wagner actually rises his level of play when times are tough and lineup changes every game.
Markelle just cant handle nba pressure on consistent basis. He looks more happy injured than on the floor. It should be obvious for front office, i will be shocked and disgusted if we keep him longterm.

[tiderulz]

What’s wrong with Suggs?

He broke his ankle during the offseason and is still having pain.

This isn't totally accurate.

Suggs sprained his ankle twice last year. They did an MRI at the end of the season and discovered he actually had suffered a stress fracture. He had surgery on it shortly after the regular season.

He came to camp totally healthy with no restrictions or pain.

Then he sprained the same ankle on October 21 in Atlanta. He missed 5 games and a total of 11 days. He returned on November 1 and played 12 more games with no real issues before spraining the ankle again on November 25 in Indiana.

He has missed a total of 17 days and counting with this new ankle injury.

4 ankle sprains and ankle surgery on the same ankle in 9 months.

It's not NOT concerning.

hopefully they get it right. i remember Curry being thought to have glass ankles and once he got it right, hasnt been much of an issue. though even with his issues, he didnt miss the time Suggs has. i get it, we want him right and healthy on the court, no reason to push thru an injury

[Last Guardian]

Fultz has been in a bad slump since he's been back. Last season he was much better .

I like Cole off the bench.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

His shooting #s aren't bad. He doesn't take the ball away from the best players, in fact looks to create for them. And his defense has raised a level so far. If this is a bad slump then I'm really impressed. Not to mention that the Magic suddenly are on a winning streak shortly after his return when they looked like an absolute disaster of a team before.

[j_n]

Just rewatched the game and i can safely say that Fultz was straight trash for the vast majority of his minutes. Like rubbish at both ends.

Cole was pretty decent. Defensively he couldn't have tried any harder. With the ball, he did a lot of good stuff. Enough to make you think he can be a good NBA guard. He does need to calm the fúck down tho. A lot of his inefficiency issues come from barreling into tough spots and being forced to take low percentage shots. He needs to slow it down and use footwork to get opponents on his back, so he has more time to play. But the instincts and core talent are good.

Weird that we have the 5th best defense based on points allowed over the last 4 games he’s started at PG. The ball movement is significantly better, turnovers are down and he’s hitting guys in ideal spots, although some are still struggling to finish.

I’m not seeing what you’re seeing.

Turnovers are way up in the minutes Fultz is playing. It's the main reason our offense has been so underwhelming with him on the court (only 104.5 ORTG despite him playing with at least 2 of our 3 best scorers almost all the time). Take a look at this on/off stats for the last 7 games (since Fultz came back) - https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/onoffcourt-advanced?LastNGames=7&dir=D&sort=TM_TOV_PCT

Turnover rate with Fultz on the court - 21.4 (dreadful, would be by far the worst in the league)
Turnover rate with Fultz off the court - 12.0 (great, would be the best in the league)

This is the main reason the offense has been much better when Fultz has been on the bench in these games. The TS% is fine, but we just turn the ball over way too much.

Drawing conclusions from like 5 games with new teammates (no Carter, Suggs and Harris), no real big man, and he averaged like 20 minutes per game so far, let's wait until the all star.

I wouldn't mind trying Fultz as a 6th man, he does the little things that can make our second unit respectable, he's the only guard that finds his teammates in their comfortable spots, and he's constantly looking for a the hot hand.
Between Franz and Paolo you got enough playmaking, what we need next to them is a knockdown shooter at Pg.

[pepe1991]

Fultz has been in a bad slump since he's been back. Last season he was much better .

I like Cole off the bench.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

His shooting #s aren't bad. He doesn't take the ball away from the best players, in fact looks to create for them. And his defense has raised a level so far. If this is a bad slump then I'm really impressed. Not to mention that the Magic suddenly are on a winning streak shortly after his return when they looked like an absolute disaster of a team before.

Define " shooting aren't bad" ?

His eFG is 47% , his current eFG is 48%. League's average is 54%.

His TS% for career is 49% , currentlly 51,3%. League's average is 55%.

His FT% is career 71%, currentlly 75%. League's average is 78%.

His value over replacment has been negative whole his career. Still is.
His BPM has been negative his whole career. Still is.

His win share paints picture of backup who's impact is between zero and negative. It still is.


Among PGs who suited up for more than 60 min this season, by RAPTOR data, he is 7th worst among 108 players.




You can talk about his "defense" but there is no data in a world that would back up claim he is playing good defense.

Magic are on win streak. In two of three games Magic won, he was the worst player on the floor , among starters, on both teams. They won Clippers game in particular despite him. In 28 min he scored 1 point and had 3 turnovers on 4 assists.

"Give him time" is same song that is being played on repeat since 2017. We are 16 days away from 2023.


We know what Fultz is. At least level headed portion of fans do. He is backup PG in nba. spark off bench that could be useful if you put some hybrid small lineup from bench made out of 4 three and D players that will spread floor ,get rebounds and kick open floor. Magic apsolutley don't have personell any more to keep investing into Fultz-starter delusion any longer. And even Magic bench doesn't fit Fultz any more.


At the end of a day whole Fultz topic is split into two groups:
-people who can distance themself from 2017 draft hype and see player what he is, not what somebody told you he will be 6 years ago
- people who still can't accept fact that just because scouts told you he will be athletic Harden, that doesn't mean it was set in stones to happen.

[JBSouthpaw]

Fultz has been in a bad slump since he's been back. Last season he was much better .

I like Cole off the bench.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

His shooting #s aren't bad. He doesn't take the ball away from the best players, in fact looks to create for them. And his defense has raised a level so far. If this is a bad slump then I'm really impressed. Not to mention that the Magic suddenly are on a winning streak shortly after his return when they looked like an absolute disaster of a team before.

Here is what Fultz (and Cole to a degree) does to help this team.

Look at the 2 plays in this thread, it's about Paolo not letting it fly in C&S situations, but dang does Fultz get him wide open looks

Read on Twitter