If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

[Last Guardian]

I'd say Mobley if you need a big and Franz if you need a wing. Mobley, don't really have to defend that statement. For Franz, he's simply the most efficient wing, scores around 20ppg, is also unselfish and not a terrible defender.

[jasonxxx102]

Green has the same assist rate and tov rate as Franz, right behind Barnes in assist rate but has a better Tov rate, and Barnes is not a good defender right now either despite college rep.

Giddey can only play make and do nothing else rn which is problematic in itself

Green's taken a bit of a playmaking leap this year

Barnes' defense hasn't been good this year for sure, but he looks like prime Kawhi Leonard out there compared to Green's defense.

Not really.

And honestly they are good and bad for the exact opposite reasons. Green can keep guards in front him consistently on one on one defense at the perimeter. He horrible when he gets switched onto a big. Barnes has strength to handle bigs in paint. Guards blow by him easily though.

It's not even about individual on-ball defense. He's absolutely lost in a zone and when his man doesn't have the ball. He gives up like 10 wide open 3s a game because he's too busy ball watching and making poor rotations

[basketballRob]

Barnes should be guarding bigs. I don't think he can guard SGs

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[tooler]

As a Magic fan, I have a soft spot for Jalen Green because our team hasn’t had a dynamic scoring guard in more than a decade. I’m a little jealous.

He does seem like a bit of a knucklehead but I have no idea where I got that impression. I think he’ll be fine. Some consistency will help him.

[HotelVitale]

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Now show his efficiency stats.

I don't get why this is the 5th post about his efficiency in this thread. He's not very efficient now but it's not like he's been wildly embarrassingly bad at it, and everyone else hasn't been very good either. Mobley has a better TS but he's a big who doesn't shoot as much so he better, and Cade and Barnes of course are struggling worse than Green is. Green's still 20, too, so not sure why him being a few buckets a week from average efficiency means the only thing we should say about him is 'LOL that efficiency tho.'

Since you're a Magic fan I guess this is a Franz thing. That's cool and Franz is entitled to that--he's definitely a more consistent and in control scorer than Green now--but Green's still in his young prospect phase and always talking his inefficiency instead of other interesting/impressive things doesn't seem interesting or right. (Also Franz's superior efficiency means that he literally makes like one more bucket in 20 tries, it's a big difference in NBA efficiency terms but less so in absolute terms.)

[basketballRob]

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Now show his efficiency stats.

I don't get why this is the 5th post about his efficiency in this thread. He's not very efficient now but it's not like he's been wildly embarrassingly bad at it, and everyone else hasn't been very good either. Mobley has a better TS but he's a big who doesn't shoot as much so he better, and Cade and Barnes of course are struggling worse than Green is. Green's still 20, too, so not sure why him being a few buckets a week from average efficiency means the only thing we should say about him is 'LOL that efficiency tho.'

Since you're a Magic fan I guess this is a Franz thing. That's cool and Franz is entitled to that--he's definitely a more consistent and in control scorer than Green now--but Green's still in his young prospect phase and always talking his inefficiency instead of other interesting/impressive things doesn't seem interesting or right. (Also Franz's superior efficiency means that he literally makes like one more bucket in 20 tries, it's a big difference in NBA efficiency terms but less so in absolute terms.)

Green is 5 months younger than Franz.

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[tooler]

I think the reason people are talking past each other on Jalen Green is they should be looking at consistency rather than efficiency. From my box score watching, he's the type of player that will have an awesome stretch for a bunch of games and then a mediocre stretch. Total it all up and he looks pretty good overall. But now you have two perspectives on a player depending on which stretch you focus on.

I don't think Franz is lower ceiling so much as he's lower standard deviation. Aside from the Eurobasket hangover in October, he's been fairly consistent for a young player. He doesn't have the eye-popping mega games like most people like, but he has fewer bad games. That's one reason why Jalen has 13 30-pt games and Franz has 3 yet their career PPG is only different by 2.

I've always thought of star players as the ones that can perform at a high level night in and night out. That will be the next step for Green. He certainly has a chance as he gains more experience. Whereas Franz is slow, steady improvement on a solid baseline. He's inching his season PPG and 3PT% up this year.

[K_chile22]

I think the reason people are talking past each other on Jalen Green is they should be looking at consistency rather than efficiency. From my box score watching, he's the type of player that will have an awesome stretch for a bunch of games and then a mediocre stretch. Total it all up and he looks pretty good overall. But now you have two perspectives on a player depending on which stretch you focus on.

I don't think Franz is lower ceiling so much as he's lower standard deviation. Aside from the Eurobasket hangover in October, he's been fairly consistent for a young player. He doesn't have the eye-popping mega games like most people like, but he has fewer bad games. That's one reason why Jalen has 13 30-pt games and Franz has 3 yet their career PPG is only different by 2.

I've always thought of star players as the ones that can perform at a high level night in and night out. That will be the next step for Green. He certainly has a chance as he gains more experience. Whereas Franz is slow, steady improvement on a solid baseline. He's inching his season PPG and 3PT% up this year.

The thing that is causing this is home/away splits. Green, like a ton of young players, is much better at home vs on the road.

For his career he's at 21/4/4 on 58.6%TS at home, 16/3/3 on 50.2%TS on the road.

Franz has a pretty large difference of 5%TS as well but not as big as Jalen's, I'd guess a part of that is Franz' experience playing in professional setting at a young age like eurocup

[Michael Jackson]

As a Magic fan, I have a soft spot for Jalen Green because our team hasn’t had a dynamic scoring guard in more than a decade. I’m a little jealous.

He does seem like a bit of a knucklehead but I have no idea where I got that impression. I think he’ll be fine. Some consistency will help him.

Do not give up all hope on Suggs yet...

[supertruck97]

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Now show his efficiency stats.

TS% 53.5% on 11 2PA/7.6 3PA/5.8 FTA. His EFG is 48.5%

Compared with

Wagner
TS% 59.6% on 11.3 2PA/4.5 3PA/4.9 FTA. EFG of 54.4%.


Cade has a 49.2% TS% and a 45.3%EFG
Barnes is 51% TS% & 49% EFG

Green has better shooting efficiency than either of those guys, but I don't see anyone calling out their efficiency stats in this discussion...

[tooler]

The thing that is causing this is home/away splits. Green, like a ton of young players, is much better at home vs on the road.

For his career he's at 21/4/4 on 58.6%TS at home, 16/3/3 on 50.2%TS on the road.

Franz has a pretty large difference of 5%TS as well but not as big as Jalen's, I'd guess a part of that is Franz' experience playing in professional setting at a young age like eurocup

Good find. I see Franz has more home games than Green this year as well, so both players should trend a little closer together as the season progresses.

[LarsV8]

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[MarcusBrody]

I think the reason people are talking past each other on Jalen Green is they should be looking at consistency rather than efficiency. From my box score watching, he's the type of player that will have an awesome stretch for a bunch of games and then a mediocre stretch. Total it all up and he looks pretty good overall. But now you have two perspectives on a player depending on which stretch you focus on.

I don't think Franz is lower ceiling so much as he's lower standard deviation. Aside from the Eurobasket hangover in October, he's been fairly consistent for a young player. He doesn't have the eye-popping mega games like most people like, but he has fewer bad games. That's one reason why Jalen has 13 30-pt games and Franz has 3 yet their career PPG is only different by 2.

I've always thought of star players as the ones that can perform at a high level night in and night out. That will be the next step for Green. He certainly has a chance as he gains more experience. Whereas Franz is slow, steady improvement on a solid baseline. He's inching his season PPG and 3PT% up this year.

I think the reason people are talking past each other on Jalen Green is they should be looking at consistency rather than efficiency. From my box score watching, he's the type of player that will have an awesome stretch for a bunch of games and then a mediocre stretch. Total it all up and he looks pretty good overall. But now you have two perspectives on a player depending on which stretch you focus on.

I don't think Franz is lower ceiling so much as he's lower standard deviation. Aside from the Eurobasket hangover in October, he's been fairly consistent for a young player. He doesn't have the eye-popping mega games like most people like, but he has fewer bad games. That's one reason why Jalen has 13 30-pt games and Franz has 3 yet their career PPG is only different by 2.

I've always thought of star players as the ones that can perform at a high level night in and night out. That will be the next step for Green. He certainly has a chance as he gains more experience. Whereas Franz is slow, steady improvement on a solid baseline. He's inching his season PPG and 3PT% up this year.

The thing that is causing this is home/away splits. Green, like a ton of young players, is much better at home vs on the road.

For his career he's at 21/4/4 on 58.6%TS at home, 16/3/3 on 50.2%TS on the road.

Franz has a pretty large difference of 5%TS as well but not as big as Jalen's, I'd guess a part of that is Franz' experience playing in professional setting at a young age like eurocup

I am not sufficiently informed to have an opinion on this issue, having watched very few Franz games and only a few more Green games, but this is good basketball discussion and I feel like I learned something. Stuff like this keeps me coming back to the forum.

[Farhan0311]

I think the reason people are talking past each other on Jalen Green is they should be looking at consistency rather than efficiency. From my box score watching, he's the type of player that will have an awesome stretch for a bunch of games and then a mediocre stretch. Total it all up and he looks pretty good overall. But now you have two perspectives on a player depending on which stretch you focus on.

I don't think Franz is lower ceiling so much as he's lower standard deviation. Aside from the Eurobasket hangover in October, he's been fairly consistent for a young player. He doesn't have the eye-popping mega games like most people like, but he has fewer bad games. That's one reason why Jalen has 13 30-pt games and Franz has 3 yet their career PPG is only different by 2.

I've always thought of star players as the ones that can perform at a high level night in and night out. That will be the next step for Green. He certainly has a chance as he gains more experience. Whereas Franz is slow, steady improvement on a solid baseline. He's inching his season PPG and 3PT% up this year.

Green at home:
25 ppg 5 apg 4 rpg on 63% ts on a 10 game sample size.

Wagner at home:
22 ppg 3 apg 5 rpg on 63% ts on a 16 game sample size.

Both these guys are feasting at home and struggling on the road which btw is 100% expected for 20 and 21 year old sophomores.

You can imagine how bad Green's road numbers are if he's that great at home. And they played a record amount of road games in their first 25 games. So ya I expect the efficiencies for both players to normalize and get closer as the season progresses.

Edit: I saw others posted this. My bad.

[basketballRob]

I think the reason people are talking past each other on Jalen Green is they should be looking at consistency rather than efficiency. From my box score watching, he's the type of player that will have an awesome stretch for a bunch of games and then a mediocre stretch. Total it all up and he looks pretty good overall. But now you have two perspectives on a player depending on which stretch you focus on.

I don't think Franz is lower ceiling so much as he's lower standard deviation. Aside from the Eurobasket hangover in October, he's been fairly consistent for a young player. He doesn't have the eye-popping mega games like most people like, but he has fewer bad games. That's one reason why Jalen has 13 30-pt games and Franz has 3 yet their career PPG is only different by 2.

I've always thought of star players as the ones that can perform at a high level night in and night out. That will be the next step for Green. He certainly has a chance as he gains more experience. Whereas Franz is slow, steady improvement on a solid baseline. He's inching his season PPG and 3PT% up this year.

Green at home:
25 ppg 5 apg 4 rpg on 63% ts on a 10 game sample size.

Wagner at home:
22 ppg 3 apg 5 rpg on 63% ts on a 16 game sample size.

Both these guys are feasting at home and struggling on the road which btw is 100% expected for 20 and 21 year old sophomores.

You can imagine how bad Green's road numbers are if he's that great at home. And they played a record amount of road games in their first 25 games. So ya I expect the efficiencies for both players to normalize and get closer as the season progresses.

Edit: I saw others posted this. My bad.

Also, just glancing at the 10 games Green has played at home. He hasn't played any B2Bs and had a few multiple days off before a game .

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[tooler]

You can imagine how bad Green's road numbers are if he's that great at home.

Yeah they look rough. I took a look because I wanted to see the home/away splits myself. Franz is at 54% TS on the road and Green is at 47%.

The sample sizes get even smaller when we start splitting games, so we’ll see what happens over the season.

Teams have also thrown a lot of different defensive game plans at Franz. We’ll see if they find one that works.

[Shock Defeat]

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His usage rate is also the highest at 28%, Shot attempts the highest at 18FGA, shoots 42%FG all to only average 1.8 more PPG.

Tell me why Franz doesn't shoot more, then?

It's not like he's more efficient while the team is winning. No, the team needs Franz to score 30 more often, so that perhaps they can win more games.

Green's best games absolutely trump Franz's best games, and I have no doubt in my mind that Green has a level that Franz cannot ever reach. I'll take a inconsistent guy that shows flashes of being a superstar, over a guy that's consistently decent any day of the week.

[basketballRob]

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His usage rate is also the highest at 28%, Shot attempts the highest at 18FGA, shoots 42%FG all to only average 1.8 more PPG.

Tell me why Franz doesn't shoot more, then?

It's not like he's more efficient while the team is winning. No, the team needs Franz to score 30 more often, so that perhaps they can win more games.

Green's best games absolutely trump Franz's best games, and I have no doubt in my mind that Green has a level that Franz cannot ever reach. I'll take a inconsistent guy that shows flashes of being a superstar, over a guy that's consistently decent any day of the week.

He's more than decent .

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[OrlMagic05]

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His usage rate is also the highest at 28%, Shot attempts the highest at 18FGA, shoots 42%FG all to only average 1.8 more PPG.

Tell me why Franz doesn't shoot more, then?

It's not like he's more efficient while the team is winning. No, the team needs Franz to score 30 more often, so that perhaps they can win more games.

Green's best games absolutely trump Franz's best games, and I have no doubt in my mind that Green has a level that Franz cannot ever reach. I'll take a inconsistent guy that shows flashes of being a superstar, over a guy that's consistently decent any day of the week.

Listen, I am not hating on Green, but your logic makes no sense and only helps show how horribly inconsistent Green is.

Out of the 26 games he has played he has 15 games where he shot under 40%, 6 of those he shot under 30%!!! Where as Franz has only shot under 40% 4 times this season.

Give me the player that gives me a consistent 20ppg 4rebs 4 ast on 50% shooting than the guy that will shoot you out of a game any day of the week.

Edit- Also, Franz's best game matches Green's best game this year with 34 points and even then Franz was more efficient shooting 80% from the field.

[hardenASG13]

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His usage rate is also the highest at 28%, Shot attempts the highest at 18FGA, shoots 42%FG all to only average 1.8 more PPG.

Tell me why Franz doesn't shoot more, then?

It's not like he's more efficient while the team is winning. No, the team needs Franz to score 30 more often, so that perhaps they can win more games.

Green's best games absolutely trump Franz's best games, and I have no doubt in my mind that Green has a level that Franz cannot ever reach. I'll take a inconsistent guy that shows flashes of being a superstar, over a guy that's consistently decent any day of the week.

Exactly. Green is showing he likely will end up as a guy averaging around 30ppg for years and people want to bash his efficiency. Guys that can average that much are extremely valuable. This board is nuts over efficiency for some reason. Green clearly has room to improve and has shown improvement throughout his young career. He is the second best prospect in that class behind Mobley in my opinion, and it's not close. Cade was miscast as a number 1 pick, and if we're talking flaws and inconsistency, Barnes should be the poster boy. Guy disappears quite often and isn't close to Green as a scorer.