Re-Signed: The PJ Washington Jr. Thread (3yrs/$48m)

[amcoolio]

Yeah the advanced stats say if you simply replaced him with McDaniels you'd have a better team. Very disappointing player, thought he would break out by now. I'm sure some team will trade for him

[Diop]

I know per 36 doesn’t tell a complete story but Washingtons defensive rebounding stats are truly pathetic.

[CuseMayne]

I know per 36 doesn’t tell a complete story but Washingtons defensive rebounding stats are truly pathetic.

Simply need better production from the starting PF. Especially when considering rebounding as a whole has been a struggle for some time now...

[Hornet Mania]

I've been out on PJ for a couple of weeks now.

I hoped he might make a mini-leap but it just hasn't panned out. He has some strengths as a player, mainly stretching the floor and defense when he feels like it, but he's ultimately a role player not a foundational piece. His actual value, imo, is somewhere around a Morris twin. Not a bad player but not one worth heavily investing.

Our front office would be fools to hand him a fat extension...but, then again, our front office are well-known fools so I can't rule it out.

[amcoolio]

I've been out on PJ for a couple of weeks now.

I hoped he might make a mini-leap but it just hasn't panned out. He has some strengths as a player, mainly stretching the floor and defense when he feels like it, but he's ultimately a role player not a foundational piece. His actual value, imo, is somewhere around a Morris twin. Not a bad player but not one worth heavily investing.

Our front office would be fools to hand him a fat extension...but, then again, our front office are well-known fools so I can't rule it out.

This is where I'm at. He's a good 5th player on a team like the Bucks where there is no focus on him, and he's around the level of Markieff Morris (I'd say prime Marcus Morris was a lot better). 4/60 is the highest I would go, which is what we likely offered and he turned down.

[luciano-davidwesley]

If we can get a late 2023 first for him at the deadline from a contender he is as good as gone.

Atlanta, Golden State, Memphis, Philadelphia, Toronto, Phoenix, New Orleans and Miami are playoff teams that own their first rounder this year or someone elses and aren't stopped by the Stepien rule that might flip it for PJ at the deadline.

I doubt we deal with ATL and MIA as division rivals though. New Orleans are also probably going to steal an early first off the Lakers as part of the AD deal pick swap so unless LAL go on a big winning run they may not be realistic either.

I think there is a high probability this happens before the trade deadline.

[fatlever]

Read on Twitter

?t=BqbxW8atPbeE5652cGXrHA&s=19

A tweet with a video collage of PJ playing some excellent defense. His defense isn't the question at this point, we are all worried about his offensive ceiling. Kind of looks like we're at the point contract-wide of what is the value of a versatile 6 ft 7 forward with mediocre to erratic offensive output? Feels like Brandon Clarke.

We gave Cody Martin 4 years 32 million for being a great defender with a mediocre bag of offensive skills. And we offered PJ double that which includes a steep increase for youth and size. That 4 years 60 mil contract was very fair.

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[Bassman]

PJ just has a very defined ceiling IMO, but doubtful he or his agent see it that way. Most disappointing is his rebounding. Not nearly strong enough to be a starting PF. Inconsistent shooter, scorer. Good defender (not great). He’s a contributor for sure, but we need to discern where his $ number is, and trade him if that figure is not to our advantage…OR we get a good trade offer.

[JDR720]

He's probably at his offensive ceiling. A 15pts per game 3pt specialist. Still think we need to keep him, every good team needs 3&D players. Especially one that can play C sometimes.

[JMAC3]

Read on Twitter

?t=BqbxW8atPbeE5652cGXrHA&s=19

A tweet with a video collage of PJ playing some excellent defense. His defense isn't the question at this point, we are all worried about his offensive ceiling. Kind of looks like we're at the point contract-wide of what is the value of a versatile 6 ft 7 forward with mediocre to erratic offensive output? Feels like Brandon Clarke.

We gave Cody Martin 4 years 32 million for being a great defender with a mediocre bag of offensive skills. And we offered PJ double that which includes a steep increase for youth and size. That 4 years 60 mil contract was very fair.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM Forums mobile app

We didn't offer him 60 million though.

Michael Scotto: The Charlotte Hornets were discussing a contract extension of around four years, $50-52 million, with forward PJ Washington, league sources told HoopsHype. That offer was nearly identical to the extension Wendell Carter Jr. previously signed with the Orlando Magic. However, Washington was seeking closer to $20 million annually, league sources told HoopsHype.

I know it doesn't seem drastic, but yeah 10 million more goes a long way in real life.

[JMAC3]

If we can get a late 2023 first for him at the deadline from a contender he is as good as gone.

Way overvaluing these late firsts.... Guys taken picks 20-30 the last two years. NONE OF THEM ARE AVERAGING 15 PPG and Aldama is probably the only one who has started more than 10 games. but yeah lets give away our 24 year PF who makes 37% of his threes and has 173 starts for a player that can play 12 mpg and average 5.5 ppg.


Jalen Johnson
Keon Johnson
Isaiah Jackson
Usman Garuba
Josh Christopher
Quentin Grimes
Bones Hyland
Cam Thomas
Jaden Springer
Day'Ron Sharpe
Santi Aldama
Malaki Branham
Christian Braun
Walker Kessler
David Roddy
MarJon Beauchamp
Blake Wesley
Wendell Moore Jr.
Nikola Jović
Patrick Baldwin Jr.
TyTy Washington
Peyton Watson

[luciano-davidwesley]

If we can get a late 2023 first for him at the deadline from a contender he is as good as gone.

Way overvaluing these late firsts.... Guys taken picks 20-30 the last two years. NONE OF THEM ARE AVERAGING 15 PPG and Aldama is probably the only one who has started more than 10 games. but yeah lets give away our 24 year PF who makes 37% of his threes and has 173 starts for a player that can play 12 mpg and average 5.5 ppg.


Jalen Johnson
Keon Johnson
Isaiah Jackson
Usman Garuba
Josh Christopher
Quentin Grimes
Bones Hyland
Cam Thomas
Jaden Springer
Day'Ron Sharpe
Santi Aldama
Malaki Branham
Christian Braun
Walker Kessler
David Roddy
MarJon Beauchamp
Blake Wesley
Wendell Moore Jr.
Nikola Jović
Patrick Baldwin Jr.
TyTy Washington
Peyton Watson

You make it sound like PJ doesn't have any warts. His rebounding would be mediocre for a 2 guard and that's not mentioning incredibly his streaky offense.

You'd rather pay PJ $20 million over 4 years to become the next millstone around our neck or let him walk for free in restricted free agency?

Also waaaaaay too early to be evaluating the rookies and second year players you've listed above here. We've got plenty of tape on PJ however and he isn't moving the needle for us. I'll take the lottery ticket and cost control.

[Braggins]

Way overvaluing these late firsts....

"A pick between 20-30 actually has the same value as the 13th pick." - Mitch Kupchak

Spoiler:

I'm in favor of trying to keep PJ within reason. Just wanted to slam the front office again.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Way overvaluing these late firsts....

"A pick between 20-30 actually has the same value as the 13th pick." - Mitch Kupchak

Spoiler:

I'm in favor of trying to keep PJ within reason. Just wanted to slam the front office again.

I've read articles where they have analysed the win shares of every pick and the conclusion was that late first rounders have on average similar career performance and trajectory to late lottery/mid first rounders.

[JMAC3]

You make it sound like PJ doesn't have any warts. His rebounding would be mediocre for a 2 guard and that's not mentioning incredibly his streaky offense.

You'd rather pay PJ $20 million over 4 years to become the next millstone around our neck or let him walk for free in restricted free agency?

Also waaaaaay too early to be evaluating the rookies and second year players you've listed above here. We've got plenty of tape on PJ however and he isn't moving the needle for us. I'll take the lottery ticket and cost control.

Nobody is claiming PJ doesn't have warts. You make it seem like teams are dying to give PJ 20+ million. There are like 4 teams that even have that much money to spend and they probably have 10 potential targets to spend that on.

I can go back further years... but its going to net out as like a 10% starter hit rate and the misses are bad, real bad.

So yeah if you want to have a 10% chance at Tyrese Maxey, Kevin Porter Jr and a 50% chance at Dylan Windler and Chandler Hutchinson's of the world then have at it. Those numbers don't seem in our favor so I would probably pass.

[Braggins]

Way overvaluing these late firsts....

"A pick between 20-30 actually has the same value as the 13th pick." - Mitch Kupchak

Spoiler:

I'm in favor of trying to keep PJ within reason. Just wanted to slam the front office again.

I've read articles where they have analysed the win shares of every pick and the conclusion was that late first rounders have on average similar career performance and trajectory to late lottery/mid first rounders.

I wasn't trying to comment on this argument. I'm just still complaining about the draft trade with Detroit last summer lol.

[UNCNYC]

If we can get a late 2023 first for him at the deadline from a contender he is as good as gone.

Way overvaluing these late firsts.... Guys taken picks 20-30 the last two years. NONE OF THEM ARE AVERAGING 15 PPG and Aldama is probably the only one who has started more than 10 games. but yeah lets give away our 24 year PF who makes 37% of his threes and has 173 starts for a player that can play 12 mpg and average 5.5 ppg.


Jalen Johnson
Keon Johnson
Isaiah Jackson
Usman Garuba
Josh Christopher
Quentin Grimes
Bones Hyland
Cam Thomas
Jaden Springer
Day'Ron Sharpe
Santi Aldama
Malaki Branham
Christian Braun
Walker Kessler
David Roddy
MarJon Beauchamp
Blake Wesley
Wendell Moore Jr.
Nikola Jović
Patrick Baldwin Jr.
TyTy Washington
Peyton Watson

Thanks for the post. I guess I am a better drafter than I thought because there are only 2 players on this list who were MY PLAYERS lol. TyTy Washington and Bones Hyland

[UNCNYC]

Rebuttal I forgot I did say Christopher would be better than Green but it's still early haha

[SWedd523]

PJ isn't a needle mover by any means and isn't the type of guy you commit to long term without there being an established core in front of him. Otherwise you're just paying a mediocre dude to do mediocre things on a mediocre team.

He needs to be traded so they can roll the dice on a draft pick or some other young guy who isn't getting minutes somewhere else

[JMAC3]

PJ isn't a needle mover by any means and isn't the type of guy you commit to long term without there being an established core in front of him. Otherwise you're just paying a mediocre dude to do mediocre things on a mediocre team.

He needs to be traded so they can roll the dice on a draft pick or some other young guy who isn't getting minutes somewhere else

I wouldn't say he is mediocre, but he is a master of none. He isn't great at any one thing.

But guys in the league averaging 10+ ppg, 1+ block, 2+ assists, 1+ 3 made per game. (None of these are cherrypicked or wild stats)

List of guys.
Kyrie, KD, Tatum, Embiid, Porzingis, Horford and PJ.
*He is youngest guy on this list and also makes/will make least money*

Also, just to show I wasn't cutting stats off to help PJ... here is his stats. I could of used no buffer and the list would of been a lot smaller.

15.1 ppg (5.1 buffer)
2.4 assists (0.4 buffer)
1.8 3's made (0.8 buffer)
Block 1 (0 buffer)