If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

[Farhan0311]

I think at this point we know what kind of skills translate to winning. It's safe to say that Green is lacking in many of those skills. He's an incredible athlete and a great shooter but unless he dramatically improves his efficiency, passing and defense he's not going to be an impact player. In fact, he will continue to be a net negative.

Actually I don't think you do.

Dismissing Green as not a winning player when he can't legally buy alcohol yet and has shown rapid improvement in things like pnr ball handling and on ball defense is silly.

I'm sure a winning team can use an elite dribble seperation player who constantly collapses defenses.

[Los_29]

I think at this point we know what kind of skills translate to winning. It's safe to say that Green is lacking in many of those skills. He's an incredible athlete and a great shooter but unless he dramatically improves his efficiency, passing and defense he's not going to be an impact player. In fact, he will continue to be a net negative.

Actually I don't think you do.

Dismissing Green as not a winning player when he can't legally buy alcohol yet and has shown rapid improvement in things like pnr ball handling and on ball defense is silly.

I'm sure a winning team can use an elite dribble seperation player who constantly collapses defenses.

I'm not saying Green can't be a winning player, I'm saying he's not one right now. Of course, he's young and that's why I'm not dismissing him. My point is his flaws are extremely worrisome as they are all very hard to improve upon.

Yes, winning teams can always use a player like that. But that player won't be playing meaningful minutes in the playoffs. Green has a lot of work to do.

[Farhan0311]

It is ironic that people are spamming Green as some loser player when as the best player of his team at 20 he's led them with a winning record the past ten games, many of those wins against playoff teams.

Like has there even been a single stench for other sophmores who have done this as the best player on their team yet?

Obviously Mobley has been part of winning stretches but he isn't the best player on his team that is most reasonable for wins like Green is.


When Green plays well, the Rockets win.


Also, the Rockets are about to play a crap ton of home games where Green and the Rockers florish. They are literally an above average team at home.

[Shock Defeat]

I think at this point we know what kind of skills translate to winning. It's safe to say that Green is lacking in many of those skills. He's an incredible athlete and a great shooter but unless he dramatically improves his efficiency, passing and defense he's not going to be an impact player. In fact, he will continue to be a net negative.

That's ironic because look at the Rockets record when Green scores 25+

They're actually 6-0 the last 6 times Green has scored over 25, and 8-3 on the year. Matter of fact the Rockets only have 1 win when he does NOT score 25.

How does that not translate to winning?

[Farhan0311]

I think at this point we know what kind of skills translate to winning. It's safe to say that Green is lacking in many of those skills. He's an incredible athlete and a great shooter but unless he dramatically improves his efficiency, passing and defense he's not going to be an impact player. In fact, he will continue to be a net negative.

Actually I don't think you do.

Dismissing Green as not a winning player when he can't legally buy alcohol yet and has shown rapid improvement in things like pnr ball handling and on ball defense is silly.

I'm sure a winning team can use an elite dribble seperation player who constantly collapses defenses.

I'm not saying Green can't be a winning player, I'm saying he's not one right now. Of course, he's young and that's why I'm not dismissing him. My point is his flaws are extremely worrisome as they are all very hard to improve upon.

Yes, winning teams can always use a player like that. But that player won't be playing meaningful minutes in the playoffs. Green has a lot of work to do.

Lol reread your post I replied to. You were obviously implying his trajectory as a losing player.


Green is a high usage guard who's 20. How many high usage guards at 20 even if they become winning superstars are going to be leading actual good teams to wins at this stage of their development? The nature of Green's role means that if he goes to a current contender, the players that have his role are literally MVP level players who finished their development. Of course Green can't contribute on those type of teams yet.

[Los_29]

I think at this point we know what kind of skills translate to winning. It's safe to say that Green is lacking in many of those skills. He's an incredible athlete and a great shooter but unless he dramatically improves his efficiency, passing and defense he's not going to be an impact player. In fact, he will continue to be a net negative.

That's ironic because look at the Rockets record when Green scores 25+

They're actually 6-0 the last 6 times Green has scored over 25, and 8-3 on the year. Matter of fact the Rockets only have 1 win when he does NOT score 25.

How does that not translate to winning?

You can say that about a lot of players in this league. Bad defense, 1.3 AST/TO ratio and a low 50's TS% isn't a recipe for success in the playoffs. He's not a finished product by any means and has time to get a lot better. But if those areas don't improve he's not going to be an impact player in this league.

[Time for Change]

1. Mobley - same as last year. Elite defensive potential, offensive game coming along. Could be Anthony Davis
2. Franz - playing on a weird team with little spacing and still putting up huge numbers. Great shot making ability
3. Green - teams will always need someone who can score and especially players who can create their own shots
4. Scottie - disappointing season so far but it's not as disastrous as it's made out to be. He's been less aggressive this year and worse defensively but still a good playmaker and rebounder. Just needs to assert himself and not settle for midrange jumpers as often
5. Cade - injury is definitely concerning and he's going to miss a year of development now
6. Sengun - could be a sabonis/JV type of player which is great for where he was selected
7. Giddey - good 3rd-4th starter on a competitive team. Playmaking forwards are always valuable. I haven't seen too much of him tbh
8. Kuminga - the potential is there, idk if he'll be able to realize it on the Warriors but they are giving him more opportunities. Has all the physical tools to be success

This looks good to me. I although might push Cade down to 6th, due to the injury and awkward contract situation looming. He’s going to be asking for a max deal after next season, which will essentially be his sophomore season. I’d feel more confident extending Sengun than Cade, unless Cade takes a massive leap forward next year.

[AaronB]

I think at this point we know what kind of skills translate to winning. It's safe to say that Green is lacking in many of those skills. He's an incredible athlete and a great shooter but unless he dramatically improves his efficiency, passing and defense he's not going to be an impact player. In fact, he will continue to be a net negative.

That's ironic because look at the Rockets record when Green scores 25+

They're actually 6-0 the last 6 times Green has scored over 25, and 8-3 on the year. Matter of fact the Rockets only have 1 win when he does NOT score 25.

How does that not translate to winning?

Here is how to interpret it differently:

Green takes a lot of shots.

When he misses them, he does not score 25 points, Rockets lose.

When he makes them, he scores over 25 shots, Rockets win.

This is the point that people are making about his efficiency.

[basketballRob]

Use whatever metrics you want. There are people here arguing Franz his similar ability to Green in creating off the bounce/from the perimeter. If they can't see the absurdity in this when watching both play, nothing will change their mind. Yes Franz is very good, extremely so going to the basket. Green looks like he will be a superstar scorer, Franz will be a second option to Banchero. It appears some would just rather have that efficient, second option to a potential superstar player (saying Green can't be a winner is just completely unfounded speculation because he shoots a lot? And is top tier athlete which many on here refuse to acknowledge as a main trait to developing as a superstar perimeter player).

Green would be a second option to Banchero.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[AaronB]

Use whatever metrics you want. There are people here arguing Franz his similar ability to Green in creating off the bounce/from the perimeter. If they can't see the absurdity in this when watching both play, nothing will change their mind. Yes Franz is very good, extremely so going to the basket. Green looks like he will be a superstar scorer, Franz will be a second option to Banchero. It appears some would just rather have that efficient, second option to a potential superstar player (saying Green can't be a winner is just completely unfounded speculation because he shoots a lot? And is top tier athlete which many on here refuse to acknowledge as a main trait to developing as a superstar perimeter player).

Green would be a second option to Banchero.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Franz's trajectory looks like a slightly smaller, more mobile Dirk Nowitzki. I know it seems lazy to compare him to another tall German, but he projects to Dirk with less rebounds and more assists.

Was Dirk a superstar? I don't know, but I am Dirk will be a HoFer.

[jasonxxx102]

Use whatever metrics you want. There are people here arguing Franz his similar ability to Green in creating off the bounce/from the perimeter. If they can't see the absurdity in this when watching both play, nothing will change their mind. Yes Franz is very good, extremely so going to the basket. Green looks like he will be a superstar scorer, Franz will be a second option to Banchero. It appears some would just rather have that efficient, second option to a potential superstar player (saying Green can't be a winner is just completely unfounded speculation because he shoots a lot? And is top tier athlete which many on here refuse to acknowledge as a main trait to developing as a superstar perimeter player).

Name a single one dimension superstar in the last 10 years.

Define one demensional....if Green were to hit 30/7/5 in a few years (definitelya possibility), would he be one dimensional?

You're just making up random numbers. What makes you think that's a possibility? The odds and history of the NBA tell you that is extremely unlikely.

[jasonxxx102]

Players with at least 30/5/5 in the last 20 years

Wade
LeBron
Steph
KD
Westbrook
Harden
Kobe
AI (if you round up assists)

If you think Green is in this tier of player you are absolutely delusional

[tooler]

No the original statement was Franz cant create off the bounce/from the perimeter like Green can, which he cant/doesnt. It was countered by posting shooting percentages, ignoring the whole point and potential thing.

For the record, I posted % of field goals assisted because I wasn’t sure how to quantify what you were comparing. Clearly Franz isn’t getting a ton of field goals setup for him by someone else like a Mobley for example. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

If you’re saying that Green is better at it by the eye test then I can’t debate that because I didn’t pay much attention to him when they played. I’ll look out for him next time.

[hardenASG13]

Players with at least 30/5/5 in the last 20 years

Wade
LeBron
Steph
KD
Westbrook
Harden
Kobe
AI (if you round up assists)

If you think Green is in this tier of player you are absolutely delusional

It seems like guys are averaging alot more points these days. 30 isn't what it used to be.

[hardenASG13]

Name a single one dimension superstar in the last 10 years.

Define one demensional....if Green were to hit 30/7/5 in a few years (definitelya possibility), would he be one dimensional?

You're just making up random numbers. What makes you think that's a possibility? The odds and history of the NBA tell you that is extremely unlikely.

30ppg isn't what it used to be. The top 6-7 scorers are right there, which is a trend I see continuing. And I see Green as having the potential to be a top scorer in the league. Thus would take him over Franz in a redraft.

[reanimator]

The passion people have about a "redraft" in year 2 is quite entertaining.

[jasonxxx102]

Define one demensional....if Green were to hit 30/7/5 in a few years (definitelya possibility), would he be one dimensional?

You're just making up random numbers. What makes you think that's a possibility? The odds and history of the NBA tell you that is extremely unlikely.

30ppg isn't what it used to be. The top 6-7 scorers are right there, which is a trend I see continuing. And I see Green as having the potential to be a top scorer in the league. Thus would take him over Franz in a redraft.

and all of them are over 50% from the field besides Tatum at 47%.

The only 30ppg scorers for a season who shot less than 45% from the field were Iverson, Harden (barely) and Westbrook.

The odds of Green becoming a 30ppg scorer without a huge jump in efficiency are extremely low, so low that it makes no sense to project.

[Farhan0311]

I think at this point we know what kind of skills translate to winning. It's safe to say that Green is lacking in many of those skills. He's an incredible athlete and a great shooter but unless he dramatically improves his efficiency, passing and defense he's not going to be an impact player. In fact, he will continue to be a net negative.

That's ironic because look at the Rockets record when Green scores 25+

They're actually 6-0 the last 6 times Green has scored over 25, and 8-3 on the year. Matter of fact the Rockets only have 1 win when he does NOT score 25.

How does that not translate to winning?

You can say that about a lot of players in this league. Bad defense, 1.3 AST/TO ratio and a low 50's TS% isn't a recipe for success in the playoffs. He's not a finished product by any means and has time to get a lot better. But if those areas don't improve he's not going to be an impact player in this league.

Why would you think it wouldn't improve lol? He's literally in the most rapid stage of NBA development (19-22 years of age) players go through.

I mean the dude has massive home and road splits differences and played a record amount of road games in the first 24 games of the season. The Magic near the opposite end of the spectrum and both Green and Wagner have large deltas between their home and road splits. It's just Wagner has played A LOT more at home so far. I'm sure their efficiency numbers will normalize to be closer to each other as he season progresses to probably where it was last year where Wagner and Green were seperated by 1% in both ts% and efg%.

[basketballRob]

Define one demensional....if Green were to hit 30/7/5 in a few years (definitelya possibility), would he be one dimensional?

You're just making up random numbers. What makes you think that's a possibility? The odds and history of the NBA tell you that is extremely unlikely.

30ppg isn't what it used to be. The top 6-7 scorers are right there, which is a trend I see continuing. And I see Green as having the potential to be a top scorer in the league. Thus would take him over Franz in a redraft.

Green just gets the ball a little more than Franz currently. European players take a little longer to be selfish.

Green 27.9 usage and 30.5 per 100 possessions TS 537
Franz 25.0 usage and 29.1 per 100 possessions Franz TS 596

Franz looks like he is the better scorer currently.


Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Farhan0311]

You're just making up random numbers. What makes you think that's a possibility? The odds and history of the NBA tell you that is extremely unlikely.

30ppg isn't what it used to be. The top 6-7 scorers are right there, which is a trend I see continuing. And I see Green as having the potential to be a top scorer in the league. Thus would take him over Franz in a redraft.

Green just gets the ball a little more than Franz currently. European players take a little longer to be selfish.

Green 27.9 usage and 30.5 per 100 possessions TS 537
Franz 25.0 usage and 29.1 per 100 possessions Franz TS 596

Franz looks like he is the better scorer currently.


Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Suggestion.


Look at their home and road splits. And then look at how many home games each team has played.


Now come back and tell me you'd be confident those efficiency numbers are going to stay somewhat the same by the end of the season. Keep in mind their efficiency numbers last season when they actually played a full one which has even amount of road and home games played. That's probably more indicative of how far apart they will be by the end of the season.