All-NBA players from earlier decades rated low here

[Laimbeer]

Pete Maravich (Captain)
Connie Hawkins
Earl Monroe
Dave Bing
Elgin Baylor
Bob Love
George McGinnis
Spencer Haywood
Tiny Archibald
Elvin Hayes
Dominique Wilkins
some I'm forgetting

My impression is these are considered overrated players here, perhaps even having a negative impact on their teams. Yet in their time there considered very good or elite.

Am I mistaken? Are any of these players well thought of here, or at least good in your own estimation?

[70sFan]

Connie Hawkins definitely isn't considered overrated. In fact, he has a lot of supporters on this board.

Elgin Baylor has some critics here, but a lot of people understand that he was excellent player in his prime.

Elvin Hayes is (rightfully) criticized for his offensive style, but his defense was actually underappreciated during his prime and most people know here that he was very good defender.

The rest you mentioned were definitely seen as clear positive players, most of them were definitely all-star level.

[Doctor MJ]

So, I'd say the big pattern I'm seeing is that these guys were volume scorers, some of whom were never able to be efficient, and some of whom were inefficient for part of their career. Since efficiency wasn't well understood in the old days, inefficient players were often overrated.

I'll single out Hawkins as someone I'm super-high on for his prime - which was short in the NBA, but not short in terms of how long he was actually that good - but whose career ended with a bit of whimper, although there were other things going on than dropping efficiency.

[tsherkin]

My impression is these are considered overrated players here, perhaps even having a negative impact on their teams. Yet in their time there considered very good or elite.

Kind of natural, though. Setting aside even the whole considerations of the eras in which those players played, the understanding of how one player or another impacts the game changes as a sport evolves. Someone like Nique, for example... he was exciting and put up box score numbers, but he was a classical inefficient gunner for the bulk of his career. So while he was a fan favorite, he wasn't nearly as good as some of his peers who weren't quite as flashy. Maravich is another example of "flashy but not so effective."

Doc had a nice post about inefficiency, so I won't say much more than that.

There is also the roll of years to consider. Even before you examine the individuals very much, decades of play where guys come in and do more, are awarded more and such will leave even some really good players behind. I think for the bulk of those guys on this list, that more than anything hurts them.

Elvin Hayes was the leading scorer on a title team. He wasn't an amazing scorer, he was actually below league average in TS% in 78 when the Bullets won, and that as a 19.7 ppg guy, which really isn't hot. He was sort of the 01 Iverson, but with a ring, in a way. SOMEONE needed to put up some shots, and it sure wasn't gonna be Wes Unseld volume scoring. But he, like UNseld, hit the offensive boards well, the team didn't turn the ball over that much and they were decent at drawing fouls (even if Unseld and Hayes were crap at hitting the FTAs).

Food for thought.

[CharityStripe34]

Haven't you heard? Basketball was not a real sport until 2012 or so.

(an obvious troll)

[penbeast0]

Another category is the guys who were very good but not ever mentioned at all. Lenny Wilkens, Lou Hudson, Chet Walker, Joe Caldwell, Jimmy Jones, Roger Brown, Paul Westphal, Walter Davis; these were seriously good players relative to their peers and rarely mentioned (though Westphal and Walker at least have one or two advocates here).

[Texas Chuck]

I'll always love Nique and I don't care if looking back the numbers tell us he wasn't as good as we thought. He was a big part of why I fell in love with basketball. Kids love dunks and nobody dunked with his combination of style and power in games. I know Vince gets a lot of love for that and rightfully so, but Nique to me remains the most entertaining in-game dunker ever.

So he may be 123th in your rankings but he's close to #1 in my heart.

Ironically Nique is basically the only player of this archetype I've ever really been a fan of.

[penbeast0]

I loved Gus Johnson as my favorite great dunker; he wasn't Elgin Baylor or Connie Hawkins but he was a brutal power dunker who was the first guy to break multiple backboards in the NBA. Not a super efficient scorer either but an All-Defense candidate and strong rebounder held back by knee issues.

[HeartBreakKid]

I feel like Elvin Hayes has seen a bit of a renaissance. I think he has been decent the rare times he's been brought up.

I'm not sure about Wilkins being rated low. I suppose there are way less popular players who do as good or better than him but if we are listing Wilkins then I would assume James Worthy is in the same boat.

[penbeast0]

Lenny was an inefficient scorer but his strengths were as a strong defender and good passer but his numbers don't impress anyone other than maybe longevity. Worthy was an efficient scorer and good defender, his weakness was weak rebounding (especially when seeing him as a 4).

[wojoaderge]

Lenny was an inefficient scorer but his strengths were as a strong defender and good passer but his numbers don't impress anyone other than maybe longevity. Worthy was an efficient scorer and good defender, his weakness was weak rebounding (especially when seeing him as a 4).

When was he a 4?

[AEnigma]

Lenny was an inefficient scorer but his strengths were as a strong defender and good passer but his numbers don't impress anyone other than maybe longevity. Worthy was an efficient scorer and good defender, his weakness was weak rebounding (especially when seeing him as a 4).

When was he a 4?

When Green or Rambis went to the bench.

[wojoaderge]

Lenny was an inefficient scorer but his strengths were as a strong defender and good passer but his numbers don't impress anyone other than maybe longevity. Worthy was an efficient scorer and good defender, his weakness was weak rebounding (especially when seeing him as a 4).

When was he a 4?

When Green or Rambis went to the bench.

Maybe half of that

[Owly]

First glance I'd say the above with the likes of Lucas, Kupchack, latterly Perkins, some Thompson, sometimes some McAdoo (others debatable - Wilkes played PF in GS and probably next to Dantley; Spriggs generally listed as heavier than Worthy [though fluctuating] and regarded as an enforcer in very limited reading, though both seem to be rebounding less than Worthy) seem to crowd out all the PF minutes for a few years of Worthy's prime. At first glance at least. I think Magic sometimes shunted him down a position on D too.

[prolific passer]

Haven't you heard? Basketball was not a real sport until 2012 or so.

(an obvious troll)

I always thought it started in 1991.

[countryboy667]

These players will never get the respect they deserve because today's young fans never have seen them other than in grainy old clips.That and the CANDIDE syndrome of Millennials and Gen Zers (literary types will get the reference.)

[wojoaderge]

These players will never get the respect they deserve because today's young fans never have seen them other than in grainy old clips.That and the CANDIDE syndrome of Millennials and Gen Zers (literary types will get the reference.)

Tony Orlando and Dawn

[AEnigma]

Haven't you heard? Basketball was not a real sport until 2012 or so.

(an obvious troll)

I always thought it started in 1991.

Started in 1991, took a break for a couple of years in 1994 and 1995, then ended in 1998. Everything else has just been a shadow of real basketball.

[AEnigma]

These players will never get the respect they deserve because today's young fans never have seen them other than in grainy old clips.That and the CANDIDE syndrome of Millennials and Gen Zers (literary types will get the reference.)

Ah, yes, Millennials and Zoomers are famously panglossian.

Thinking sports improve over time is not blind optimism, it is a recognisable reality and logical inevitability. We never hear this s*** in other sports, but I guess no other sport fandom builds total personality cults around its players the way so many like to with the NBA…

[prolific passer]

Maravich, Tiny, and Nique are probably my most favorites from that list. Bob Love was really the first Bulls superstar. Earl Monroe was one of the first playground legends to be a star in the NBA. Haywood was the one who paved the way for high schoolers to get drafted even though it was rare up until the 2000s. Baylor considered the first point forward in NBA history.