Was Patrick Ewing an elite center?

[KodiakBear]

he was not a winner

His teams won a lot of games and if Starks actually could hit a shot in game 7 he'd be a champion.

Looking at the Knicks over the 22 years since he left, I'd say he very much is a winner.

[BostonCouchGM]

absolutely. One of the best at his position. Unfortunately for him he played in the wrong era. If he had come earlier or later he'd have put up truly monstrous numbers and people wouldn't need to ask whether he was elite or not. I think because he's not quite on that Wilt, Shaq, Kareem and Hakeem level people forget about him or don't consider him elite. But he's right there with David Robinson, Embiid, Moses, Jokic, and Dwight in that second tier and all were elite so yes. 100%

[bradybunch]

Big Pat would smack you silly for this.

[Lalouie]

he was not a winner

His teams won a lot of games and if Starks actually could hit a shot in game 7 he'd be a champion.

Looking at the Knicks over the 22 years since he left, I'd say he very much is a winner.

i would say, looking back, that it was pitino and then riley who changed the culture @nyk. specifically, ewing barely made a bump

in his first year nyk was a .360 ball club. when they hired pitino they made a 12game bump. and then of course came riley and then jvg added a bit, and when ewing was traded the knicks never took a hit and seattle didn't get better.

but what i remember most about ewing was choking at inopportune times, whether at the ft line or dumb finger rolls when he never finger rolled in his life. it was these little things he did at poorly timed moments but then that's the diff between winners, non-winners, and losers. doing the wrong things at the wrong time. and ewing's fame benefitted from playing in new york city

nyk was a blue collar grind it down team and they were riley's team, not pat's

[Onlytimewilltel]

If he’s elite then that era is weak

Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning(Mutombo)
vs
Jokic, Embiid, Adebayo, Gobert, KAT(Ayton)

I pick the Ewing era for centers 10/10 times. Would you not?
It has arguably 2 top10 players of all time, 1 borderline top20 and 3 all time defenders.
How's that "weak"?
Ewing was a great player. Nothing less.
The best Knick I've ever seen, they were contenders with him, irrelevant when he left(this continues until today).
Great defender, when truly healthy his athleticism was a joy to watch.
He had a nice jumpshot and ofc he was a physical beast under the basket.
Ofc he wasn't Hakeem. But that's like comparing Gobert to Embiid for example. Gobert isn't Embiid.
Which means absolutely nothing. He's great on his own right.

Im referring to era, not just centers. Suddenly trying to compare it to a sample size favorable to you shows the weakness in your argument.

If Ewing is considered as an elite player of that era, then that era is weak. 4-5BPM player at his prime. If you are comparing him to Towns, who has reached 7.8BPM and he aint even at his prime yet.

Just think about it.. the guys being compared to Michael are mostly from this era. LeBron, Steph, Kobe and KD. The guy probably outside both era that can enter the conversation is Wilt chamberlain.

You don’t see Clyde Drexler, Hakeem or Shaq entering the GOAT conversation.

Ewing is more comparable to Nikola Vucevic. And if you have Nikola Vucevic as an elite player of an era, then maybe that era is weak.

[PhilBlackson]

You don't get a Snickers commercial if you ain't elite...Rik Smits could never.

Watch on YouTube

PATRICKCHEWING

[Got Nuffin]

lol at Ewing being compared to Vucevic !

Try and imagine a Vucevic-led team giving Michael Jordan so much trouble over the years.

From a talent perspective, The Admiral had more of it than post-injury Ewing, but you could argue that Pat Ewing did more on the Knicks with less than Robinson had (until they drafted Duncan of course). Very similarly tiered players, imo.

Olajuwon and Shaq of course are tier 1.The other giants like Mutombo, Smits, Mourning were a tier below Ewing and DRob after that.

[LewisnotMiller]

If he’s elite then that era is weak

Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning(Mutombo)
vs
Jokic, Embiid, Adebayo, Gobert, KAT(Ayton)

I pick the Ewing era for centers 10/10 times. Would you not?
It has arguably 2 top10 players of all time, 1 borderline top20 and 3 all time defenders.
How's that "weak"?
Ewing was a great player. Nothing less.
The best Knick I've ever seen, they were contenders with him, irrelevant when he left(this continues until today).
Great defender, when truly healthy his athleticism was a joy to watch.
He had a nice jumpshot and ofc he was a physical beast under the basket.
Ofc he wasn't Hakeem. But that's like comparing Gobert to Embiid for example. Gobert isn't Embiid.
Which means absolutely nothing. He's great on his own right.

Im referring to era, not just centers. Suddenly trying to compare it to a sample size favorable to you shows the weakness in your argument.

If Ewing is considered as an elite player of that era, then that era is weak. 4-5BPM player at his prime. If you are comparing him to Towns, who has reached 7.8BPM and he aint even at his prime yet.

Just think about it.. the guys being compared to Michael are mostly from this era. LeBron, Steph, Kobe and KD. The guy probably outside both era that can enter the conversation is Wilt chamberlain.

You don’t see Clyde Drexler, Hakeem or Shaq entering the GOAT conversation.

Ewing is more comparable to Nikola Vucevic. And if you have Nikola Vucevic as an elite player of an era, then maybe that era is weak.

You're suggesting Ewing was at the level of Nik Vucevic?

[2LeTTeRS]

If he’s elite then that era is weak

Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning(Mutombo)
vs
Jokic, Embiid, Adebayo, Gobert, KAT(Ayton)

I pick the Ewing era for centers 10/10 times. Would you not?
It has arguably 2 top10 players of all time, 1 borderline top20 and 3 all time defenders.
How's that "weak"?
Ewing was a great player. Nothing less.
The best Knick I've ever seen, they were contenders with him, irrelevant when he left(this continues until today).
Great defender, when truly healthy his athleticism was a joy to watch.
He had a nice jumpshot and ofc he was a physical beast under the basket.
Ofc he wasn't Hakeem. But that's like comparing Gobert to Embiid for example. Gobert isn't Embiid.
Which means absolutely nothing. He's great on his own right.

Im referring to era, not just centers. Suddenly trying to compare it to a sample size favorable to you shows the weakness in your argument.

If Ewing is considered as an elite player of that era, then that era is weak. 4-5BPM player at his prime. If you are comparing him to Towns, who has reached 7.8BPM and he aint even at his prime yet.

Just think about it.. the guys being compared to Michael are mostly from this era. LeBron, Steph, Kobe and KD. The guy probably outside both era that can enter the conversation is Wilt chamberlain.

You don’t see Clyde Drexler, Hakeem or Shaq entering the GOAT conversation.

Ewing is more comparable to Nikola Vucevic. And if you have Nikola Vucevic as an elite player of an era, then maybe that era is weak.

Hmmm. Maybe peak Vucevic with elite defense (which is not similar to Vuc at all). Ewing was an absolute problem, and I say that as a man who only remembers old man version of Pat with bad knees.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

Ewing just had the misfortune of playing in the GOAT era of prime HOF C play which got him overlooked to a degree.

For a 4 year stretch from 92-93 to 95-96 there were 5 different Centers averaging at least 20+ppg 10rpg 2+ bpg.

In 93-94 & 94-95 the top 3 leading scorers in the league were Centers. Never happened before and hasn't happened since.

Both those seasons Ewing averaged 24ppg 11 rpg 2 blks a night........and that still wasn't even good enough to qualify for an all NBA team selection.

[Eagle4]

If there was ever a need for -1 on RGM it'd be the Ewing = Vucevic post. Wow.

Ewing definitely gets criminally underrated due to the slew of dominant bigs he competed against in the 90s. Also, due to his lack of hardware but that was partly because the GOAT ruled for almost the entirety of his career (considering he was drafted a year later).

[Calvin Klein]

Awards
1985-86 Rookie of the Year
1985-86 Sporting News Rookie of the Year
1996-97 50 Greatest Players in NBA History
2021-22 NBA 75th Anniversary Team

All-Star Games
1986 NBA
1988 NBA
1989 NBA
1990 NBA
1991 NBA
1992 NBA
1993 NBA
1994 NBA
1995 NBA
1996 NBA
1997 NBA


All-League
1985-86 All-Rookie (1st)
1987-88 All-Defensive (2nd)
1987-88 All-NBA (2nd)
1988-89 All-Defensive (2nd)
1988-89 All-NBA (2nd)
1989-90 All-NBA (1st)
1990-91 All-NBA (2nd)
1991-92 All-Defensive (2nd)
1991-92 All-NBA (2nd)
1992-93 All-NBA (2nd)
1996-97 All-NBA (2nd)

MVP Award Shares
1988-89 NBA 0.235 (4)
1989-90 NBA 0.176 (5)
1990-91 NBA 0.021 (11)
1991-92 NBA 0.104 (5)
1992-93 NBA 0.366 (4)
1993-94 NBA 0.252 (5)
1994-95 NBA 0.219 (4)
1996-97 NBA 0.050 (8)

[Snacks]

after already reaching elite defensive level, he ascended completely in1990 - averaging 29pts 11boards and 4 blocks - playing 40 minutes for 82 games. Injuries had already started affecting his fluid gate, but for six years he averaged 25pts 11 boards 3 blocks.
The Dream for about that same amount of time starting in 1990 averaged 26 pts 12 boards 4 blocks.
They were on the same tier -- until Ewing's knees and wrist took away his extra level.
The one thing that this argument seems to miss, especially those who incorrectly think Robinson deserves to even be in this conversation, is that both these guys intimidated the hell out of players, and won b/c of it. Even Shaq was intimidated by an already declining Ewing. Ewing's impact has always been underrated. I still remember how knick fans thought the knicks would be better without an aging Ewing. Yeah, how did that work out.

[BrianFitz]

If he’s elite then that era is weak

Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning(Mutombo)
vs
Jokic, Embiid, Adebayo, Gobert, KAT(Ayton)

I pick the Ewing era for centers 10/10 times. Would you not?
It has arguably 2 top10 players of all time, 1 borderline top20 and 3 all time defenders.
How's that "weak"?
Ewing was a great player. Nothing less.
The best Knick I've ever seen, they were contenders with him, irrelevant when he left(this continues until today).
Great defender, when truly healthy his athleticism was a joy to watch.
He had a nice jumpshot and ofc he was a physical beast under the basket.
Ofc he wasn't Hakeem. But that's like comparing Gobert to Embiid for example. Gobert isn't Embiid.
Which means absolutely nothing. He's great on his own right.

Im referring to era, not just centers. Suddenly trying to compare it to a sample size favorable to you shows the weakness in your argument.

If Ewing is considered as an elite player of that era, then that era is weak. 4-5BPM player at his prime. If you are comparing him to Towns, who has reached 7.8BPM and he aint even at his prime yet.

Just think about it.. the guys being compared to Michael are mostly from this era. LeBron, Steph, Kobe and KD. The guy probably outside both era that can enter the conversation is Wilt chamberlain.

You don’t see Clyde Drexler, Hakeem or Shaq entering the GOAT conversation.

Ewing is more comparable to Nikola Vucevic. And if you have Nikola Vucevic as an elite player of an era, then maybe that era is weak.

All this writing to not understand the thread title asked - was he an elite CENTER.

[Blame Rasho]

after already reaching elite defensive level, he ascended completely in1990 - averaging 29pts 11boards and 4 blocks - playing 40 minutes for 82 games. Injuries had already started affecting his fluid gate, but for six years he averaged 25pts 11 boards 3 blocks.
The Dream for about that same amount of time starting in 1990 averaged 26 pts 12 boards 4 blocks.
They were on the same tier -- until Ewing's knees and wrist took away his extra level.
The one thing that this argument seems to miss, especially those who incorrectly think Robinson deserves to even be in this conversation, is that both these guys intimidated the hell out of players, and won b/c of it. Even Shaq was intimidated by an already declining Ewing. Ewing's impact has always been underrated. I still remember how knick fans thought the knicks would be better without an aging Ewing. Yeah, how did that work out.

No reasonable person thinks that Ewing is considered better than Robinson. Robinson was a MVP level player for years, while Ewing just wasn’t. Outside of biased Knick fans, you will not find many people to agree with you.

[DayofMourning]

Imagine being able to drop 28/11 on 55%, with 4 blocks and DPOY defense and people asking if you're elite. lmao.

Yeah. This is a pretty ignorant/naive/trolling attempt at starting a debate.

A top 50 player of all time was probably elite. I don't get it.

[DrCoach]

11 all star games, #1 pick, ROY

What a stupid question

[PhilBlackson]

This is where sometimes I feel bad for certain players historically...

While guys like Starks, Oakley, Mason, McDaniel etc were all really, really good tough players, most of them were mainly just defensive players, no real offensive firepower for help...Ewing really never got a chance to play with another elite player yet somehow gets penalised by not getting through the GOAT and a team on paper that the Knicks have no business giving the kind of wars they did to the Bulls but each year they battled the hell out of one of the most stacked teams in NBA history and held their own. Imagine Ewing had a legitimate multiple time all-star (don't say Starks lol) to play with how different he may been viewed as a player right now...but instead he's almost looked upon as some sort of failure.

Robinson (who's same tier as Ewing) didn't do anything until he got Duncan. It's part of why I put Hakeem in a completely different class but he was able to do it essentially without another big time player his first go round but then he got Drexler and won another. Even Malone had Stockton (and Hornacek), Kemp had Payton, Shaq had Penny, meanwhile Ewing with no real true 2nd star was somehow expected to beat MJ/Pipp/Grant or Rodman...plus Kukoc lol. Bit of a rant but a thread as ridiculous as this one goes to show just how underrated & underappreciated Ewing was/is. EASILY was an elite center, no question about it.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

between the two options, he's close to Hakeem obviously lol

[Phish Tank]

As many said earlier, Ewing simply played in an era of HOF centers, so his impact is often underappreciated more than anything.

Yes, Hakeem's a step above him. Shaq's definitely above him too. But Ewing's quite comparable to David Robinson and definitely is steps above Alonzo Mourning & Dikembe Mutombo in that regards too.

Consider that Ewing had 10 straight seasons where he only missed no more than 6 games in a given season. That durability is hard to find amongst bigs. Shaq isn't the most durable. Hakeem is the most comparable honestly. The others didn't have longer sustained runs like Ewing did.

Additionally, the Knicks front office never paired Ewing with a legit secondary scorer ever (until it was too late) and the Pat Riley/Jeff Van Gundy offensive systems sacrificed offensive creativity and production for stingy defense and super low scoring games.