2022-23 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.1)

[eyeatoma]

"Murray did the heavy lifting", against the Jazz Murray was the more important player, until the biggest game, game 7, where Jokic carried them to a win.

In the next round, it was clearly Jokic, when they were facing the WC favorites (according to those Vegas odds that people kept bringing up last year ).

Jamal Murray is coming back from a season and a half off, I think it's fair to give him half a season to return to form.

Regarding the Sixers "performing better than the Nuggets, sans the lone WCF run", what are you using to quantify this?

2020: Jokic WCF, Embiid swept by team that didn't make it out of conference
2021: Jokic 2nd round, swept by eventual WC champs, Embiid 2nd round, beat by team that didn't make it out of conference
2022: Jokic 1st round, beat by best team in NBA, Embiid 2nd round, beat by team that didn't make it out of conference

Note that Jokic was missing, at minimum, his 2nd best player in each of the last 2 years.

The teams eliminating Jokic each of the last 3 years were either the best team in NBA (2x) or 2nd best team (1x).
The teams eliminating Embiid were not even close...

They. Are. Not. The. Same.

You forget that 2020 the Sixers lost the series because of Simmons. That definitely counts for something. Embiid was the reason they were going to win.

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So another excuse?

Please address 2021 and 2022. Did you not read all the way or stopped at 2020? Looking forward to the excuses for 2021 and 2022.

I meant 2021 my bad...

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[Blaze4G]

Jayson Tatum is not in the same stratosphere as both of these players. Stop bringing him up.

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How many times has Tatum beat the supposedly better player in Embiid in the playoffs again? Sorry, my memory is foggy. Maybe you can remind me.

*awaits excuses*

So because his team beat him that makes him better? Yeah, they're the better team, but Tatum at best is a top 5 to 10 player while Embiid is a top 3 player at worst.



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The better team? In 2018 Philly was OVERWHELMING favorites to win that series but I am sure you have an excuse why that doesn't matter.

[Blaze4G]

You forget that 2020 the Sixers lost the series because of Simmons. That definitely counts for something. Embiid was the reason they were going to win.

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So another excuse?

Please address 2021 and 2022. Did you not read all the way or stopped at 2020? Looking forward to the excuses for 2021 and 2022.

I meant 2021 my bad...

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okay, well you still havent addressed 2020 and 2022. Why ae you ignoring those years? Dont deflect.

[Sharkboy242]

First ESPN straw poll is out

1) Tatum
2) Giannis
3) Doncic
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Morant
7) Durant
8) Zion
9) Booker
10) Embiid

[Feed Your Head]

I’ve posted it before, but the Celtics are just a bad team when Tatum isn’t in the game. Because they are so deep and talented, people assume otherwise, but it’s just not the case. I know it’s even more extreme in Steph and Jokic’s case, but Tatum is absolutely in the 99th percentile when it comes to impact on the game. This is the Celtics net ratings with these players off the floor, it’s a gap of 6 points for the next closest player, that’s insane.

[Archx]

I’ve posted it before, but the Celtics are just a bad team when Tatum isn’t in the game.

Yep,they deserve better. Tatum and Luka need better teams (I'm only half joking )

Read on Twitter

[Statlanta]

Tatum makes sense since the 2 players with unworldly stats are either injured or have voter fatigue.

[jokeboy86]

Tatum makes sense since the 2 players with unworldly stats are either injured or have voter fatigue.

Watch out for Ja and Zion as dark horses if they can stay healthy and their teams keep winning. 3 new young North American stars who the talking heads and tv media love a lot more than all of the international players so they're going to start generating a lot more hype and coverage if their teams continue to win.

[Blaze4G]

Tatum makes sense since the 2 players with unworldly stats are either injured or have voter fatigue.

imo I still have Luka as long as he can get the Mavs to 6th seed or better. His supporting cast is just that bad. Personally team record has never been a big factor for me for my personal MVP vote (with exceptions).

[Cubbies2120]

Embiid, Maxey and Harden have played 5 games together lol.

Wait a minute...are you saying it's crucial for an MVP candidate to have his 2nd and 3rd option?! Where did I hear this downplayed last season....hmm I'm trying to remember

If Harden plays zero games all season, and Maxey plays 9 games all season, then you'll get to experience what Nuggets fans got to watch last year...an MVP candidate with his 2 main helpers in suits on the bench.

Until then, you don't get to complain

Alright, so then when Embiid leads his team to the 6th seed, without his stars, I can expect an MVP?

Got it!

Yep, just gotta sit Harden and Maxey for the rest of the season! Harden has played more games this season than Murray + MPJ COMBINED last season.

If Embiid gets them to 6th seed and Harden/Maxey sit rest of year, he deserves MVP.

[bisme37]

NBA MVP straw poll: Luka? Giannis? Tatum? 100 league insiders make their picks

Boston Celtics forward Jayson Tatum, who is averaging a career-high 30.2 points per game, claimed 47 first-place votes and was on 98 of 100 ballots cast in the 2022-23 debut of ESPN's NBA MVP straw poll, which was conducted from Sunday to Tuesday.

Tatum led the way with 759 total points, followed by Milwaukee Bucks forward Giannis Antetokounmpo (36 first-place votes, 687 total points) in second and Dallas Mavericks guard Luka Doncic (10 first-place votes, 392 total points) in third.

Rounding out the top five behind Tatum, Antetokounmpo and Doncic were Golden State Warriors guard Stephen Curry (six first-place votes, 250 total points) and Denver Nuggets center (and reigning two-time NBA MVP) Nikola Jokic, who had one first-place vote and 195 total points.

Tatum, Antetokounmpo, Doncic, Curry and Jokic were the only five players to receive a first place vote.

Others receiving votes included Memphis Grizzlies guard Ja Morant (sixth), Brooklyn Nets forward Kevin Durant (seventh), Williamson (eighth), Phoenix Suns guard Devin Booker (ninth), Philadelphia 76ers center Joel Embiid (10th), Cleveland Cavaliers guard Donovan Mitchell (11th), Los Angeles Lakers forward Anthony Davis (12th), and Gilgeous-Alexander, who, with a lone fifth-place vote, rounded out the poll in 13th place.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35253462/nba-mvp-straw-poll-luka-giannis-tatum-100-league-insiders-make-their-picks

[bisme37]

Can we get a new poll please? Past the quarter mark now...

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The poll is set up so people are able to change their vote. So I don't see the need for a totally new poll until the thread gets to 100 pages and we make a new one.

[Cubbies2120]

Can we get a new poll please? Past the quarter mark now...

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The poll is set up so people are able to change their vote. So I don't see the need for a totally new poll until the thread gets to 100 pages and we make a new one.

No no, the poll should be reset, the ESPN straw poll has Embiid as #10, and our poll shows #9, I'd like people to be able to recast their votes to get Embiid in a more appropriate spot!

[ty 4191]

Tatum makes sense since the 2 players with unworldly stats are either injured or have voter fatigue.

Everyone cited "voter fatigue" last year, and it didn't happen; (I'm not convinced it's even a real phenomenon).

Ask yourself, if a guy finished on a three seed putting up 25/10/9 with +10-+12 rTS%, shouldn't he be the favorite? Who many players in NBA History have come close to doing what Jokic is doing this year?

[bisme37]

Latest MVP Ladder from NBA.com...

1 Tatum
2 Giannis
3 Jokic
4 Morant
5 Durant
T-6 Luka
T-6 Zion
8 Embiid
9 Curry
10 Davis

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-dec-16-2022-edition

[bisme37]

There are too many MVP candidates for the poll lol. Can only fit 10.

I'm thinking KD should def be in there but who comes out? KD was actually in the poll until a couple weeks ago and only had 1 total vote if I'm remembering correctly, so he came out in favor of Morant I think.

[liquidswords]

Tatum makes sense since the 2 players with unworldly stats are either injured or have voter fatigue.

Everyone cited "voter fatigue" last year, and it didn't happen; (I'm not convinced it's even a real phenomenon).

Ask yourself, if a guy finished on a three seed putting up 25/10/9 with +10-+12 rTS%, shouldn't he be the favorite? Who many players in NBA History have come close to doing what Jokic is doing this year?

That really set in for me this AM when I looked up some advanced stats for the MVP candidates. What Jokic is doing is unprecedented. I think that needs to be part of the criteria. Tatum averaging 30ppg on good %'s but on an offensively historic NBA team? Not unprecedented. Luka averaging 32-11-8 on a 45 win team? Not unprecedented. Embiid's #'s are going to be absurd but the Sixers will be a 4-5 seed. Not unprecedented.

At this point in the young season, it feels like Jokic's to lose

[bisme37]

I am personally ranking the guys who have missed a lot of games lower than fans of those players might like. Like with Joel, he's played at an MVP level when he's played but he's missed a third of the season. So he doesn't have the full body of work some of the other guys have.

And the other part of it is, it's easier to play at a high level when you take games off and are well rested. The MVP of the NBA regular season needs to embrace the grind of the NBA regular season.

[DarkXaero]

Can anyone tell me why KD isn't even an option on this thread poll? He has arguably been the best player in the league this season.

[bisme37]

Can anyone tell me why KD isn't even an option on this thread poll? He has arguably been the best player in the league this season.

I actually just commented on this, but he was in the poll until a couple weeks ago and had 1 total vote. I agree he should be there but who would you take out?