00 SHAQ VS 03 DUNCAN

[falcolombardi]

00 shaq>> anybody but maybe Jordan and Wilt.

Duncan 03 wasn't all THAT efficient, how are folks clamoring to have him over peak most dominant ever Shaq?

Duncan was a VERY significatively better defender than shaq and the efficiency/volume scoring gap shrinks in the playoffs as duncan is one of the rare players whose numbers go up against stronger playoffs competition (hakeem, reggie and to an extent kobe other ones)

Plus-minus data actually paints duncan as slightly more impactful too

[Cavsfansince84]

00 shaq>> anybody but maybe Jordan and Wilt.

Duncan 03 wasn't all THAT efficient, how are folks clamoring to have him over peak most dominant ever Shaq?

Worth noting I think that Duncan in 02(his top scoring year) was at 33.5 pp100 on a ts+ of 111. In 03 he goes for 31.6/109.
Shaq in 00 was at 38.1pp100 on a ts+ of 111.

So equal efficiency in each player's top scoring year with Shaq scoring more. Passing is roughly equal imo which apg also shows.

[ShaqAttac]

00 shaq>> anybody but maybe Jordan and Wilt.

Duncan 03 wasn't all THAT efficient, how are folks clamoring to have him over peak most dominant ever Shaq?

Worth noting I think that Duncan in 02(his top scoring year) was at 33.5 pp100 on a ts+ of 111. In 03 he goes for 31.6/109.
Shaq in 00 was at 38.1pp100 on a ts+ of 111.

So equal efficiency in each player's top scoring year with Shaq scoring more. Passing is roughly equal imo which apg also shows.

does shaq get a boost for putting teams in foul trouble

[Eagle4]

00 shaq>> anybody but maybe Jordan and Wilt.

Duncan 03 wasn't all THAT efficient, how are folks clamoring to have him over peak most dominant ever Shaq?

Worth noting I think that Duncan in 02(his top scoring year) was at 33.5 pp100 on a ts+ of 111. In 03 he goes for 31.6/109.
Shaq in 00 was at 38.1pp100 on a ts+ of 111.

So equal efficiency in each player's top scoring year with Shaq scoring more. Passing is roughly equal imo which apg also shows.

does shaq get a boost for putting teams in foul trouble

serious question did teams have multiple disposable bigs solely to guard/foul Duncan like they did prime Shaq?

[hoosierdaddy34]

Peak Shaq was definitely better than peak Duncan. But Duncan obviously had the longer career and stayed at his peak longer.

[Cavsfansince84]

does shaq get a boost for putting teams in foul trouble

serious question did teams have multiple disposable bigs solely to guard/foul Duncan like they did prime Shaq?

No though a big part of that is due to Shaq being a terrible ft shooter.

[70sFan]

Worth noting I think that Duncan in 02(his top scoring year) was at 33.5 pp100 on a ts+ of 111. In 03 he goes for 31.6/109.
Shaq in 00 was at 38.1pp100 on a ts+ of 111.

So equal efficiency in each player's top scoring year with Shaq scoring more. Passing is roughly equal imo which apg also shows.

does shaq get a boost for putting teams in foul trouble

serious question did teams have multiple disposable bigs solely to guard/foul Duncan like they did prime Shaq?

Which teams really had such players?

[onedayattatime]

serious question did teams have multiple disposable bigs solely to guard/foul Duncan like they did prime Shaq?

i can't speak about all teams, but in the summer of 2002, the nets traded key rotation players (van horn and macculloch) for an old mutombo, who they knew would do nothing for them during the regular season. their explicit rationale was that they hoped to make the finals and wanted insurance against shaq OR duncan. and in fact, he did get to guard duncan in the finals; it just wasn't enough.

[ShaqAttac]

does shaq get a boost for putting teams in foul trouble

serious question did teams have multiple disposable bigs solely to guard/foul Duncan like they did prime Shaq?

No though a big part of that is due to Shaq being a terrible ft shooter.

are there any other players who would make teams pick bad bigs just to foul them

[ShaqAttac]

cool to see pro-shaq points. everyone telling me he worse than x, y, or z.

duncan got good points too tho. idk.

[ceoofkobefans]

I’m high on Duncan’s peak but I can’t really see him competing with Shaq p4p. Looking at some stats

00 Shaq

30.3 IA PTS/75
3.9 IA AST/75
13.9 IA TRB/75
.5 STL/75
2.9 BLK/75
2.7 TOV/75
+5.5 rTS%
5.4 Box OC
5.1 Passer Rating
63 Spacing
8.4 cTOV%
43 Offensive Load
19.3 AST%
18.3 TRB%
+9.3 BPM (9 VORP)
+7.3 BP BPM
+8.12 RAPTOR
+7 APM
+6.1 AuPM

03 Duncan

25.4 IA PTS/75
4.3 IA AST/75
14 IA TRB/75
.7 STL/75
3 BLK/75
3.2 TOV/75
+4.5 rTS
4.3 Box OC
6.3 Passer rating
83 spacing
10.8 cTOV%
38.8 Offensive Load
+7.6 BPM
+6.3 BP BPM
+7.51 RAPTOR
+5.7 APM
+5.6 AuPM

Shaq clears from a RS look at impact metrics let’s look at PO

00 Shaq

30.7 IA PTS/75
3.1 IA AST/75
15.5 IA TRB/75
.5 STL/75
2.2 BLK/75
2.3 TOV/75
+4.8 rTS
+8.1 BPM
+7.1 BP BPM
+6.3 3yr AuPM

03 Duncan

24.9 IA PTS/75
5.4 IA AST/75
15.5 IA TRB/75
.6 STL/75
3.1 BLK/75
2.9 TOV/75
+6.2 rTS%
+10.2 BPM
+8 BP BPM
+8.2 3yr AuPM

Duncan wins in the PO but I don’t see anything on film that indicates that he’d be this big of a PO riser from his RS results (or that he’d be a bigger riser than Shaq). Shaq has a better statistical footprint for Single and multi year peaks and I think he looks better on film. I think the offensive gap is too big.

[70sFan]

Defensive gap is bigger though...

I get that some people value offense way higher than defense, but it's just intelectually dishonest to say thay you don't see any case for Duncan, when the case is quite straightforward.