Was Patrick Ewing an elite center?

[LewisnotMiller]

Whats the tierlist for 90s Centers? Are Robinson and Olajuwon in the same tier? Where does Ewing rank among those 2?

The tiers are strange since there are levels within each tier, so let's do this with 1/2 tiers in between. This is for the early-mid '90s only.

Tier 1:
Olajuwon, Robinson

Tier 1 1/2:
Shaq (at the time)

Tier 2: Ewing

Tier 2 1/2: Mourning, Mutombo

Tier 3: Smits, Divac, Daugherty

Tier 4: Elden Campbell, Seikaly, Parish, Duckworth

Parish in Tier 4 WTH......you do realize that Parish uis a HOF player. Those players shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath with the Chief

I always just assume posts like this are the result of only seeing Parish from age 35 onwards (ya know, the last 15 years of his career - J/K)

[axeman23]

Obviously I'm in the minority, it seems. But I don't see the insult in a "better Rik Smits", and can see the similarities. Which is the way i voted. To me, Hakeem & D-Rob were just more varied offensively, while young Shaq was just a force of nature. That's my Top tier there...

[big-shot-ROB]

His teams won a lot of games and if Starks actually could hit a shot in game 7 he'd be a champion.

Looking at the Knicks over the 22 years since he left, I'd say he very much is a winner.

i would say, looking back, that it was pitino and then riley who changed the culture @nyk. specifically, ewing barely made a bump

in his first year nyk was a .360 ball club. when they hired pitino they made a 12game bump. and then of course came riley and then jvg added a bit, and when ewing was traded the knicks never took a hit and seattle didn't get better.

but what i remember most about ewing was choking at inopportune times, whether at the ft line or dumb finger rolls when he never finger rolled in his life. it was these little things he did at poorly timed moments but then that's the diff between winners, non-winners, and losers. doing the wrong things at the wrong time. ewing benefitted from playing in new york city

nyk was a blue collar grind it down team and they were riley's team, not pat's

Other than 1995, a razor thin loss to Indiana. Ewings Knicks were losing to teams/superstars that were better than the Knicks/Ewing himself.

It's not like he/they lost series they were supposed to win.

And imho Ewings performance vs a vastly superior Boston Celtics team in 1990 is the greatest individual against the odds/back against the wall ball busting comeback performance in a playoff series in NBA history.

The Knicks didn't even look like an NBA team the first 2 games to start that series (one loss they gave up a NBA playoff record 157 points).

After that....Ewing went bat crazy.

Given LeBron made a 73-9 win team go and sign the 2nd best player in the league after he won 3 straight all by himself, I think it's at least a debate

[Invictus88]

No reasonable person thinks that Ewing is considered better than Robinson. Robinson was a MVP level player for years, while Ewing just wasn’t. Outside of biased Knick fans, you will not find many people to agree with you.

Just b/c most people agree on something doesn't make them right, no matter how reasonable. We will not agree, but Robinson was empty stats and was never true MVP candidate in my book b/c he did nothing of consequence until a real impact player joined the roster. Ewing was a true MVP, b/c most of those knicks teams would of never been in contention without him.
...and yet another forgotten and underrated aspect of Ewing's accomplishments is that he did this in New York, one of the hardest places to lead a team to victory.

It is funny seeing obtuse logic being posted.

I appreciate the reply and the laugh you gave me.

According to the prior poster's logic it's impossible for a player with no supporting cast to ever be considered an MVP candidate; unless they give a transcendent performance to overcome that.

You have some of the greatest players ever (Jordan and LeBron) that couldn't do it alone...

[Moose]

Yes, he was elite

This question is borderline insulting lol

[Wilfried]

If you’re chosen to the 50 greatest of all-time list, you are elite

Ewing was

[tsherkin]

Obviously I'm in the minority, it seems. But I don't see the insult in a "better Rik Smits", and can see the similarities. Which is the way i voted. To me, Hakeem & D-Rob were just more varied offensively, while young Shaq was just a force of nature. That's my Top tier there...

Not the same tier of play on either end of the floor. Taking a career 15/6 guy (20/8 PER36 if you like) on 54.8% TS who was never anything close to Ewing on D makes "better Rik Smits" seem like a comparison to a roleplayer who featured well on an ensemble Pacers cast as opposed to a high-end franchise anchor.

[76ciology]

As a center, Ewing is closer to Vucevic. 5-6 BPM center.

and Vucevic isn’t an elite C in today’s era where this era is not even far from over.

[SweetTouch]

he couldn't even complete a finger roll and was exposed

[Gary Cokeman]

As a center, Ewing is closer to Vucevic. 5-6 BPM center.

and Vucevic isn’t an elite C in today’s era where this era is not even far from over.

[Perishable517]

Some great big guys throughout history. That was one of the high water peaks.

Sent from my CPH2417 using RealGM mobile app

[Bob Ross]

Ewing was elite no question

[Lalouie]

His teams won a lot of games and if Starks actually could hit a shot in game 7 he'd be a champion.

Looking at the Knicks over the 22 years since he left, I'd say he very much is a winner.

i would say, looking back, that it was pitino and then riley who changed the culture @nyk. specifically, ewing barely made a bump

in his first year nyk was a .360 ball club. when they hired pitino they made a 12game bump. and then of course came riley and then jvg added a bit, and when ewing was traded the knicks never took a hit and seattle didn't get better.

but what i remember most about ewing was choking at inopportune times, whether at the ft line or dumb finger rolls when he never finger rolled in his life. it was these little things he did at poorly timed moments but then that's the diff between winners, non-winners, and losers. doing the wrong things at the wrong time. ewing benefitted from playing in new york city

nyk was a blue collar grind it down team and they were riley's team, not pat's

Lol you're just a hater. Keep on hating.

yes i am,,,when it comes to ewing.
i started the club
and happily watched his first game against shaq when shaq treated ewing like a boy. i cant remember how many times ewing was blocked or nailed his baseline shot to the side of the backboard

oh, and its hard to forget ewing promising a ring trying to follow messier promising the cup to nyc.......one failed the other didn't

in the near future ewiing will drop 4 additional spots behind giannis, embiid, jokic, and,,,,,,wemby

[NowWHYcee7]

after already reaching elite defensive level, he ascended completely in1990 - averaging 29pts 11boards and 4 blocks - playing 40 minutes for 82 games. Injuries had already started affecting his fluid gate, but for six years he averaged 25pts 11 boards 3 blocks.
The Dream for about that same amount of time starting in 1990 averaged 26 pts 12 boards 4 blocks.
They were on the same tier -- until Ewing's knees and wrist took away his extra level.
The one thing that this argument seems to miss, especially those who incorrectly think Robinson deserves to even be in this conversation, is that both these guys intimidated the hell out of players, and won b/c of it. Even Shaq was intimidated by an already declining Ewing. Ewing's impact has always been underrated. I still remember how knick fans thought the knicks would be better without an aging Ewing. Yeah, how did that work out.

No reasonable person thinks that Ewing is considered better than Robinson. Robinson was a MVP level player for years, while Ewing just wasn’t. Outside of biased Knick fans, you will not find many people to agree with you.

Plenty of people think that. Robinson laid down and died in front of Hakeem. Patrick went to war.

[Blame Rasho]

after already reaching elite defensive level, he ascended completely in1990 - averaging 29pts 11boards and 4 blocks - playing 40 minutes for 82 games. Injuries had already started affecting his fluid gate, but for six years he averaged 25pts 11 boards 3 blocks.
The Dream for about that same amount of time starting in 1990 averaged 26 pts 12 boards 4 blocks.
They were on the same tier -- until Ewing's knees and wrist took away his extra level.
The one thing that this argument seems to miss, especially those who incorrectly think Robinson deserves to even be in this conversation, is that both these guys intimidated the hell out of players, and won b/c of it. Even Shaq was intimidated by an already declining Ewing. Ewing's impact has always been underrated. I still remember how knick fans thought the knicks would be better without an aging Ewing. Yeah, how did that work out.

No reasonable person thinks that Ewing is considered better than Robinson. Robinson was a MVP level player for years, while Ewing just wasn’t. Outside of biased Knick fans, you will not find many people to agree with you.

Plenty of people think that. Robinson laid down and died in front of Hakeem. Patrick went to war.

Hahaha…Knick fans are cute and lying to themselves.

Went to war… hahaha. I doubt you were alive during in 95 much less saw basketball games.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/david-robinson-stats-vs-hakeem-playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/patrick-ewing-vs-hakeem-finals

Face it, Ewing wasn’t better than Robinson, if you want to live in a world where that happens , have at it. I mean accolades should be in his favor if that was the case, I mean, he did play in the Mecca compared to San Antonio but you are right… he went to war in one series lol.

I been here long enough to laugh at absurdities and bad posters.

[NowWHYcee7]

No reasonable person thinks that Ewing is considered better than Robinson. Robinson was a MVP level player for years, while Ewing just wasn’t. Outside of biased Knick fans, you will not find many people to agree with you.

Plenty of people think that. Robinson laid down and died in front of Hakeem. Patrick went to war.

Hahaha…Knick fans are cute and lying to themselves.

Went to war… hahaha. I doubt you were alive during in 95 much less saw basketball games.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/david-robinson-stats-vs-hakeem-playoffs

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/patrick-ewing-vs-hakeem-finals

Face it, Ewing wasn’t better than Robinson, if you want to live in a world where that happens , have at it. I mean accolades should be in his favor if that was the case, I mean, he did play in the Mecca compared to San Antonio but you are right… he went to war in one series lol.

I been here long enough to laugh at absurdities and bad posters.

I’m a Knicks fan and Hakeem is my favorite player of all time, period. That may be strange but I’m not biased. We aren’t comparing Michael Jordan to Mitch Richmond here. It’s not so black and white. Robinson was a better athlete and put up better numbers, but Ewing was dominant in his own right and left it all out on the court night in night out, battled with the greatest of all time for years, helped take Hakeems rockets to 7 games in 94, played on one leg in that 99 season and helped us get to the finals when nobody gave us a shot….The question this thread poses is disrespectful.

[Ayt]

If he’s elite then that era is weak

He was 1st Team All-NBA in 1989-90. You think that era was weak?

[FuShengTHEGreat]

i would say, looking back, that it was pitino and then riley who changed the culture @nyk. specifically, ewing barely made a bump

in his first year nyk was a .360 ball club. when they hired pitino they made a 12game bump. and then of course came riley and then jvg added a bit, and when ewing was traded the knicks never took a hit and seattle didn't get better.

but what i remember most about ewing was choking at inopportune times, whether at the ft line or dumb finger rolls when he never finger rolled in his life. it was these little things he did at poorly timed moments but then that's the diff between winners, non-winners, and losers. doing the wrong things at the wrong time. ewing benefitted from playing in new york city

nyk was a blue collar grind it down team and they were riley's team, not pat's

Other than 1995, a razor thin loss to Indiana. Ewings Knicks were losing to teams/superstars that were better than the Knicks/Ewing himself.

It's not like he/they lost series they were supposed to win.

And imho Ewings performance vs a vastly superior Boston Celtics team in 1990 is the greatest individual against the odds/back against the wall ball busting comeback performance in a playoff series in NBA history.

The Knicks didn't even look like an NBA team the first 2 games to start that series (one loss they gave up a NBA playoff record 157 points).

After that....Ewing went bat crazy.

Given LeBron made a 73-9 win team go and sign the 2nd best player in the league after he won 3 straight all by himself, I think it's at least a debate

LBJ did not beat GS all by himself in 2016. His 2nd best player perennial all star Kyrie played better that series than anyone on GS's team. Kyrie was right there matching LBJ point for point in that series.

Obviously the stakes were much in the 2016 Finals than New York vs Boston in 1990. But the talent gap between the Celtics and Knicks outside of Patrick Ewing was wide. Boston was better at every other position outside of the C spot And Ewing still had to go through Parrish who was a effective all star Center that season.

Ewing leading the Knicks back down 0-2 vs Boston was the greatest individual comeback performance in NBA playoff history imho.

[ShazamDaShiznt]

LOL of course he was elite scorer! From 88 till 97 he pretty much just missed couple games at most per each season. 10 years of elite basketball. It's not his fault that Charles Smith is scared to dunk or John Starks forgets how to score a basket.

He is close to Hakeem. Hakeem himself had problems with the Rockets and people forget he was actually asking for a trade back in early 90s before Rockets made a great choice surrounding him with guys who can shoot threes and win games without stacking themselves up with big names. Ewing unfortunately had too many guys who couldn't score further than a free throw line.

[MagicFan12345]

Can moderators ban original posters for stupid questions like this?