How Much of Shaq's Dominance Can Be Explained by the Lack of Quality Centers?

[70sFan]

Very little. There are few players in league history who forced opposing contenders to carry so many specialized guys on their roster just so they had enough credible fouls to get through the game. In fact, I'd argue no other player in league history impacted opposing roster construction from a one-on-one defensive standpoint quite like Shaq.

Edit: even though Shaq showed up ridiculously out of shape in 01, he was so dominant in 00 that teams decided they needed to give him 13 FTAs per game the following year as a preferred way of guarding him. They basically stacked their rosters with extra WWF guys just to make sure they could foul him enough to tip the scales away from his dominant FG% in straight up situations.

Which teams would you use as an example of that phenomenon?

[migya]

Dwight Howard's relative dominance is more early explained by the lack of quality bigs in his era. His career would've been significantly less impressive had he played twenty years earlier.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

True, but Shaq absorbed more defensive pressure and faced much tougher assignments. Besides, why do you think the other 2 games don't matter? These games were not close in big part because of Shaq play.

I never said they didn't matter. Those 2 games don't change the fact kobe Bryant was more problematic for SA than Shaq over the course of the 01 series. . Even when Shaq had a off game 2 by his standards LA still won. Duncan couldn't afford that luxury.

[/quote]You see, now you praise Kareem for dominating their stronger frontcourt (rightfully so), but you use the same argument AGAINST Shaq, because Kobe was "more problematic" for Spurs. You see, if Twin Towers could easily deal with Shaq, they would likely have done a better job against Kobe as well, as help defenders

Game 1 where he dropped 45 points.....a tonne of these baskets were a result of him beating everyone down the floor in transition or rising up for jumpers from the perimeter and had little to do with the presence of Shaq opening up space for him.

Kareem in 85 anchored a defense and was a true go to presence vs Boston. He obviously wasn't as good as 01 Shaq but his role vs Boston was heavier.

But Drexler wasn't a real MVP level player. It was more about the media narrative of him being a big rival of Jordan, when in reality he was never on that level. That's why he has no other top 3 MVP voting finish in his career

Drexler led Portland to the 2nd best record in the NBA in 91-92. Bringing up other years he didn't qualify for MVP votes is pretty disingenuous imho. He clearly was worthy in 91-92. He was annually the best SG in the league for a good 5 seasons prior to the 92 Finals. He was much closer to MJ skillwise than Deke was to Shaq.

Dikembe only ascended on all NBA teams when guys like Ewing, Robinson and Hakeem aged and were befelled by injuries. For a good 5 year stretch he was just honorable mention amongst Cs

Mutombo shut down Shaq in their previous season meetings to the degree we have not seen before in Shaq's case. He proved himself more than enough in their previous meetings

In a rather meaningless regular season game. Every player in NBA history has random regular season games in a 82 game schedule where they shoot poorly from the floor.

And as evidenced in the contrast between 00 season and 01 on defense (and it's been documented by Shaq himself) he was increasingly not giving his all in the regular season and more focused on the playoffs. That doesn't change the fact Dikembe was no offensive threat whatsoever. David Robinson when he was MVP steamrolled him in the 95 playoffs h2h when he was DPOY as well and nobody is singing praises to him. But Shaq does it and it's the greatest thing since sliced bread to many.

So now Mutombo was DPOY only because Shaq had a down year defensively? This is absurd, Mutombo had to compete against Robinson, Duncan and Garnett for that award. Shaq was no factor for him winning it. I can't believe you believe that's the reason

Younger Peak Shaq missing no significant time with all that talent alongside him had no business either anchoring a 21st ranked defense, nor finishing behind 34 year old Dikembe on the all Defensive team. This barely months after anchoring the league's best defense.

Oh yeah Shaq surely couldn't get away with that sort of effort 6 or 7 years earlier on a nightly basis that's for sure.

Mutombo is one of the greatest defenders ever and he was still top tier pressence in 2001. I can see a lot of elite centers losing all-defensive team against him. We have seen even Hakeem losing DPOY to Deke.

As great as Dikembe was defensively, he wasn't supplanting Hakeem on a all defensive team until he lost a slight step in athleicism in the 94-95 season or was missing significant time.

Yeah, he was one way player. It doesn't matter, he was clearly an all-nba level center[quote]

Yes Dikembe sure was. But as evidenced by his career it took certain perennial all star/HOF Centers falling out the picture for him to reach that level.

[70sFan]

Agree to disagree, I just think you don't use the same criteria for all players.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

We'll agree to disagree.

Hakeem in 95 regular season 27.8ppg - 10 rpg.
Vs Orlando in the NBA finals....32ppg 11rpg

Shaq had all NBA defensive help in the frontcourt with a PF with 3 NBA titles.

Karl Malone in 1998 27ppg 10rpg in regular season
Vs Los Angeles 30ppg 10 rpg

34 year old Karl Malone mind you, running circles around a much younger Shaq on switches, when Shaq was by far the best C in the league. Outrebounded him for the series too. Of course Shaq did have a efficient 31ppg & 59% FG. But just mailed it in on the defensive end that entire series. Only 4 blocks for the entire series. Fewer than Utahs aging backup bench Center Antoine Carr.

Tim Duncan in 98-99 regular season 21ppg

Vs Los Angeles 29ppg

Isn't the common excuse thrown around about how 'young' Shaq was in 1995 going against Hakeem and not at his peak. Yet younger 2nd year Duncan with FAR less NBA experience under his belt runs roughshod over his squad en route to a title?

Tim Duncan in 03 regular season 23ppg

Vs Los Angeles in the playoffs 28ppg.

It's funny how you look at Shaqs playoff resume and you don't see any significant increases performance wise when these guys were opponents.....but they could do it vs his teams.

Its clear to see once who and the calibre all these increase type series Shaq put up in his NBA career came against.....

[70sFan]

We'll agree to disagree.

Hakeem in 95 regular season 27.8ppg - 10 rpg, 56.3 TS%
Vs Orlando in the NBA finals....32ppg 11rpg, 51.4 TS%

If you want to compare numbers, it would be nice to include efficiency.

Karl Malone in 1998 27ppg 10rpg in regular season
Vs Los Angeles 30ppg 10 rpg

If you want to use Malone, you should also use a series when Malone got shut down the year before to be honest.

Tim Duncan in 98-99 regular season 21ppg

Vs Los Angeles 29ppg

...

Tim Duncan in 03 regular season 23ppg

Vs Los Angeles in the playoffs 28ppg.

Again, you use only these series when Duncan improved his scoring numbers, but you ignore 2001 and 2004 when Duncan regressed against the Lakers. Besides, Shaq rarely guarded Duncan in these series.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

, 56.3 TS%51.4 TS%
If you want to compare numbers, it would be nice to include efficiency.

If you want to use Malone, you should also use a series when Malone got shut down the year before to be honest.

Again, you use only these series when Duncan improved his scoring numbers, but you ignore 2001 and 2004 when Duncan regressed against the Lakers. Besides, Shaq rarely guarded Duncan in these series.

1. Why would I gloss over Hakeems "Ts" given how lopsided that series ended in houstons favor?. Hakeem was very aggressive with FG attempts and dragged Shaq out of the paint on several occasions weakening their rim protection. Houston was getting a lot of points at the rim because Shaq was facing someone he couldnt just stay home in the paint against. And also points in transition (just like Utah ....Shaq not always tracking back on defense) .

Shaq just couldn't camp out in the paint on defense like he did vs the likes of Mutombo, Smits and that non existent Nets frontcourt in the 02 Finals he feasted in.

2. I didn't mention the 97 meeting between Utah and LA chiefly because Shaq himself had a underwhelming series at both ends and it was a lopsided Lakers loss. . He came into the WCSF on fire after absolutely obliterating Sabonis and Portland. It's ironic how people have praised on here his 00 series vs Portland when in fact he already torched much of this team long before he won a title in b2b playoff years. Old injury riddled Sabonis....another past prime big that was no threat to Shaq. Utah exposed Shaqs lazy PnR defence both this season and the next one. A younger 24 year old Shaq couldn't outrebound 33 year old Karl Malone in that series either.

3. Agree to disagree again. Puhleeze...I'm rewatching the game 6 blowout in 03 by SA and Duncan scored on Shaq h2h in the 2nd half. And even when Shaq wasn't guarding him, he still had to rotate over to help out overmatched Horry which left guys wide open.

Those 01 and 04 series wins weren't as individually impressive as Duncan's. Duncan substantially increased his scoring vs the Lakers in both three 99 & 03 wins leading the Spurs at both ends.

Having to go against the Twin Towers was always brought up.

Robinson retired and Shaq was still the Lakers' secondary scorer. What happened to LA vs the Spurs the one time Shaq was the focal point of the offense?

Swept.