2022-23 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.1)

[garrick]

Shoutout to Booker dropping 58 on 21/35 FG and 10/15 FT. (Could have gotten 60 if he didn’t miss so many FTs)

And he could have only had 20 if he hadn't made so many of those other shots. Either way, he doesn't belong in the MVP conversation IMO.

broke Embiid's and Trae young's record for chucking this season
they both attempted 32 FGA once, which was the highest - Booker chucked 35!

21/35 just like Embiid's 20-32 is nice but nothing to write home about

just alot of shots

It's clear neither of you watched the game.

No one else from the Suns stepped up offensively in the 1st half and it looked like the Pels were going to run away with this one after getting a 24 point lead at one point. It's not like Book went stat padding and hijacking the offense, the team has been absolutely brutal on offense missing wide open 3's and having key injuries on the roster so Book has had to carry the offense most of these games.

I agree Book probably isn't a front runner for MVP given the poor play during this rough stretch of games where they lost 5 in a row but he does deserve a honorable mention and he's definitely in the top 10 this season since he's been carrying the zero offense Suns early on this season.

[Exp0sed]

And he could have only had 20 if he hadn't made so many of those other shots. Either way, he doesn't belong in the MVP conversation IMO.

broke Embiid's and Trae young's record for chucking this season
they both attempted 32 FGA once, which was the highest - Booker chucked 35!

21/35 just like Embiid's 20-32 is nice but nothing to write home about

just alot of shots

It's clear neither of you watched the game.

No one else from the Suns stepped up offensively in the 1st half and it looked like the Pels were going to run away with this one after getting a 24 point lead at one point. It's not like Book went stat padding and hijacking the offense, the team has been absolutely brutal on offense missing wide open 3's and having key injuries on the roster so Book has had to carry the offense most of these games.

I agree Book probably isn't a front runner for MVP given the poor play during this rough stretch of games where they lost 5 in a row but he does deserve a honorable mention and he's definitely in the top 10 this season since he's been carrying the zero offense Suns early on this season.

it's clear u didn't understand the point

i'm not saying the Suns had better offensive options than letting Booker take so many shots
i'm saying him hitting at about 60% clip makes for a very good offensive option, but the "50" or "58" label or whatever is obviously less impressive when u take more shots than any1 has in a game this season

Durant tonight went 14/22 from the field and 12/13 from the line for 43 points - now that's an offensive monster
Kyrie added 13/23 of which 5/10 from 3 and 7'8 from the line for 38

what if they have only one of these players and he takes 35 shots? less impressive even if it's the best option the team has

the same for Embiid taking over half his team's shots in the game he scored 21/32

Poole went for 14/23, 5/11 from 3 and 10/11 from the line for 43 as well
if he takes an extra 10 shots and goes for 55, is it more impressive?

not really..the only differences between Booker\Embiid\Trae than those guys are that those 3 have the green light to do whatever they want, it's even encouraged..while Poole taking 10 more shots would probably be frowned upon by his teammates and coach

oh, and those three (Booker\Embiid\Trae) are considerably less efficient from the field, that's another difference

these "great" performances that aren't that efficient but mostly exist because of shot volume, may make the headlines but it's the more efficient lines that win ball games for their teams

[Bob8]

broke Embiid's and Trae young's record for chucking this season
they both attempted 32 FGA once, which was the highest - Booker chucked 35!

21/35 just like Embiid's 20-32 is nice but nothing to write home about

just alot of shots

It's clear neither of you watched the game.

No one else from the Suns stepped up offensively in the 1st half and it looked like the Pels were going to run away with this one after getting a 24 point lead at one point. It's not like Book went stat padding and hijacking the offense, the team has been absolutely brutal on offense missing wide open 3's and having key injuries on the roster so Book has had to carry the offense most of these games.

I agree Book probably isn't a front runner for MVP given the poor play during this rough stretch of games where they lost 5 in a row but he does deserve a honorable mention and he's definitely in the top 10 this season since he's been carrying the zero offense Suns early on this season.

these "great" performances that aren't that efficient but mostly exist because of shot volume, may make the headlines but it's the more efficient lines that win ball games for their teams

Suns were 24 points down and Booker's performance has won the game.

[Decipher]

broke Embiid's and Trae young's record for chucking this season
they both attempted 32 FGA once, which was the highest - Booker chucked 35!

21/35 just like Embiid's 20-32 is nice but nothing to write home about

just alot of shots

It's clear neither of you watched the game.

No one else from the Suns stepped up offensively in the 1st half and it looked like the Pels were going to run away with this one after getting a 24 point lead at one point. It's not like Book went stat padding and hijacking the offense, the team has been absolutely brutal on offense missing wide open 3's and having key injuries on the roster so Book has had to carry the offense most of these games.

I agree Book probably isn't a front runner for MVP given the poor play during this rough stretch of games where they lost 5 in a row but he does deserve a honorable mention and he's definitely in the top 10 this season since he's been carrying the zero offense Suns early on this season.

it's clear u didn't understand the point

i'm not saying the Suns had better offensive options than letting Booker take so many shots
i'm saying him hitting at about 60% clip makes for a very good offensive option, but the "50" or "58" label or whatever is obviously less impressive when u take more shots than any1 has in a game this season

Durant tonight went 14/22 from the field and 12/13 from the line for 43 points - now that's an offensive monster
Kyrie added 13/23 of which 5/10 from 3 and 7'8 from the line for 38

what if they have only one of these players and he takes 35 shots? less impressive even if it's the best option the team has

the same for Embiid taking over half his team's shots in the game he scored 21/32

Poole went for 14/23, 5/11 from 3 and 10/11 from the line for 43 as well
if he takes an extra 10 shots and goes for 55, is it more impressive?

not really..the only differences between Booker\Embiid\Trae than those guys are that those 3 have the green light to do whatever they want, it's even encouraged..while Poole taking 10 more shots would probably be frowned upon by his teammates and coach

oh, and those three (Booker\Embiid\Trae) are considerably less efficient from the field, that's another difference

these "great" performances that aren't that efficient but mostly exist because of shot volume, may make the headlines but it's the more efficient lines that win ball games for their teams

I had the pleasure of watching KD, Kyrie & Jok play today

All put up ridiculous stats while playing completely within themselves

KD could go for 40 every night if he was just a relentless chucker & foul baiter as very few can guard him

[iggymcfrack]

Jokic has to be the MVP right now. All-time box score stats and easily the best impact in the league as he has Denver in the 2 seed despite them having a point differential of -13.8 whenever he sits.

[_NoMas]

Jokic has to be the MVP right now. All-time box score stats and easily the best impact in the league as he has Denver in the 2 seed despite them having a point differential of -13.8 whenever he sits.

He’s been ridiculous as ever. My only question is, despite playing on the road a lot, I do think Denver have had a favourable list of games - and the only real signature win they’ve had was in game 2 against the Warriors.

We are going to find out alot about them over the next month. In the next 13 games they play:

Memphis
Miami
Boston
Clippers X2
Lakers
Phoenix X2
Cavs
Timberwolves
Portland
Kings X2

That defence (which is awful currently) is going to have to step up big time. If it does improve and MPJ’s return/ Jokic form continues and Denver stack up the wins, then he’ll likely be the clear front runner come the end of jan.

[Richard Miller]

Jokic has to be the MVP right now. All-time box score stats and easily the best impact in the league as he has Denver in the 2 seed despite them having a point differential of -13.8 whenever he sits.

He’s been ridiculous as ever. My only question is, despite playing on the road a lot, I do think Denver have had a favourable list of games - and the only real signature win they’ve had was in game 2 against the Warriors.

Against Dallas without Jokic was also a strong win. But yea, they will need to get their s*** together soon with that kind of schedule coming up

[rapstarter]

I wonder when people who automatically exclude Jokic from the MVP discussion because "they reserve that for the truly special" are going to realize that this man IS that truly special.

[SpreeS]

Jokic for third time in a row. No one is close.

[KGtabake]

Jokic won't win for the same reason LeBron didn't win in 2011 or Giannis in 2021. They didn't want to give it to someone for the third time in the row.
LeBron finished 2nd or 3rd (Howard?) in 2011, Giannis 4th(...) in 2021.
It's not fair and it's stupid (the whole "voter fatigue") but it exists.

[HoopsterJones]

Yeah. Jokic is utterly ridiculous. 1 APG shy of averaging a triple double per game as a Center.

[Exp0sed]

Yeah. Jokic is utterly ridiculous. 1 APG shy of averaging a triple double per game as a Center.

he's not padding at all and same as always - doesn't chase near triple doubles..

if he had a WB mindset he could easily rack up another assist per game and avg a triple double

not that it matters, but that's pretty crazy tbh

[-Luke-]

I wonder when people who automatically exclude Jokic from the MVP discussion because "they reserve that for the truly special" are going to realize that this man IS that truly special.

If there are still people who to this day do not believe that Jokic is truly special, they will never be convinced.

[darmani]

it's clear u didn't understand the point

i'm not saying the Suns had better offensive options than letting Booker take so many shots
i'm saying him hitting at about 60% clip makes for a very good offensive option, but the "50" or "58" label or whatever is obviously less impressive when u take more shots than any1 has in a game this season

Durant tonight went 14/22 from the field and 12/13 from the line for 43 points - now that's an offensive monster
Kyrie added 13/23 of which 5/10 from 3 and 7'8 from the line for 38

what if they have only one of these players and he takes 35 shots? less impressive even if it's the best option the team has

What a complete and utter nonsense.

eFG%:
Booker's 58pts vs Pelicans - 70.6%
KD's 43pts @ Detroit - 70.5%
Kyrie's 38pts @ Detroit - 67.4%

How the **** is KD's 43pts or Kyrie's 38pts more impressive than Booker's 58?

It's much easier for KD or Kyrie to have these very efficient games when they have another offensive superstar alongside them on the court and not just a bunch of role players like Booker has.

If scoring 50+ points was just a matter of taking more shots, these kind of games would happen much more often. But they don't. Have you ever played basketball in your life? Creating offense and taking shots is very tiring and it's extremely difficult to keep up the high efficiency when you take more shots.

the same for Embiid taking over half his team's shots in the game he scored 21/32

Poole went for 14/23, 5/11 from 3 and 10/11 from the line for 43 as well
if he takes an extra 10 shots and goes for 55, is it more impressive?

not really..the only differences between Booker\Embiid\Trae than those guys are that those 3 have the green light to do whatever they want, it's even encouraged..while Poole taking 10 more shots would probably be frowned upon by his teammates and coach

oh, and those three (Booker\Embiid\Trae) are considerably less efficient from the field, that's another difference

these "great" performances that aren't that efficient but mostly exist because of shot volume, may make the headlines but it's the more efficient lines that win ball games for their teams

If Poole could score with this high efficiency while taking 33 or 40 shots nobody would say a word. Extrapolating boxscores is the dumbest idea ever.

[Exp0sed]

it's clear u didn't understand the point

What a complete and utter nonsense.

eFG%:
Booker's 58pts vs Pelicans - 70.6%
KD's 43pts @ Detroit - 70.5%
Kyrie's 38pts @ Detroit - 67.4%

How the **** is KD's 43pts or Kyrie's 38pts more impressive than Booker's 58?

It's much easier for KD or Kyrie to have these very efficient games when they have another offensive superstar alongside them on the court and not just a bunch of role players like Booker has.

If scoring 50+ points was just a matter of taking more shots, these kind of games would happen much more often. But they don't. Have you ever played basketball in your life? Creating offense and taking shots is very tiring and it's extremely difficult to keep up the high efficiency when you take more shots.

/quote]

If Poole could score with this high efficiency while taking 33 or 40 shots nobody would say a word. Extrapolating boxscores is the dumbest idea ever.

man, what r u even talking about?

what's so difficult to understand?

yes, the EFG%'s are similar that was the whole point
you really think Durant's efficiency will suffer that much if he took 10 more shots?

he just doesn't go for it. perhaps it's tactics, strategy a cultural thing...personal prefrence, ego - it doesn't matter why
the point is just because Booker is one of the few to consistently shoot a very high amount for shots, he's going for it deliberately

i'm not saying it's a bad strategy for the Suns btw - maybe it's their best one, it certainly was the other day
but still, the only difference is the fact that Booker is actively looking for these ultra high scoring games, every since that 70 pts game (in a loss on a losing team) - must have gone to his head all this coddling, who knows

point is he does it and other comparable (and better) scorers than him - don't
he does is even on nights when his efficiency isn't incredible or anything

so yeah, i'm personally unimpressed by it
seems to me like he's trying to prove something and the place to prove it was when Luka outscored the Suns entire team\
He hasn't proven it there so he feels the need to break records and be trendy on twitter
to each his own

same principle as with guys who have big cars, ya know? compensating on certain deficiencies with other things

[darmani]

it's clear u didn't understand the point

What a complete and utter nonsense.

eFG%:
Booker's 58pts vs Pelicans - 70.6%
KD's 43pts @ Detroit - 70.5%
Kyrie's 38pts @ Detroit - 67.4%

How the **** is KD's 43pts or Kyrie's 38pts more impressive than Booker's 58?

It's much easier for KD or Kyrie to have these very efficient games when they have another offensive superstar alongside them on the court and not just a bunch of role players like Booker has.

If scoring 50+ points was just a matter of taking more shots, these kind of games would happen much more often. But they don't. Have you ever played basketball in your life? Creating offense and taking shots is very tiring and it's extremely difficult to keep up the high efficiency when you take more shots.

/quote]

If Poole could score with this high efficiency while taking 33 or 40 shots nobody would say a word. Extrapolating boxscores is the dumbest idea ever.

man, what r u even talking about?

what's so difficult to understand?

yes, the EFG%'s are similar that was the whole point
you really think Durant's efficiency will suffer that much if he took 10 more shots?

he just doesn't go for it. perhaps it's tactics, strategy a cultural thing...personal prefrence, ego - it doesn't matter why
the point is just because Booker is one of the few to consistently shoot a very high amount for shots, he's going for it deliberately

i'm not saying it's a bad strategy for the Suns btw - maybe it's their best one, it certainly was the other day
but still, the only difference is the fact that Booker is actively looking for these ultra high scoring games, every since that 70 pts game (in a loss on a losing team) - must have gone to his head all this coddling, who knows

point is he does it and other comparable (and better) scorers than him - don't
he does is even on nights when his efficiency isn't incredible or anything

so yeah, i'm personally unimpressed by it
seems to me like he's trying to prove something and the place to prove it was when Luka outscored the Suns entire team\
He hasn't proven it there so he feels the need to break records and be trendy on twitter
to each his own

same principle as with guys who have big cars, ya know? compensating on certain deficiencies with other things

Again, complete and utter nonsense.

Booker scoring 58 was the only reason the Suns had a chance to win the game. Booker had one of the most efficient 50+ point games ever just 2 weeks ago. Booker averages just 2 shots per game more than KD, not 10.

Some NBA players could score efficient 50 points every night but just choose not to. Yeah, right. What a pile of BS.

Games with 60+ FG% and 25+ FGA:
Booker - 4 out of 6
Rest of the NBA - 16 out of 105 (Durant - 0 out of 2)

And really? 70 point game and a Mavs game 7 mention in one post? What is this? Booker's hater bingo?

EOT

[JLei]

Yah Jokic is clearly the MVP so far.

The implications of giving it to him make it a steep up hill climb for him to get it. His lack of playoff success (not really his fault) given his team injuries. They don't want to really have a 3 time MVP that hasn't gone to the Finals/ sniffed a championship.

It's a regular season award though and he's clearly the best regular season player in the NBA. I do think he can win it though. Nuggets are likely to finish with the number 1 seed and his numbers are going to be ridiculous and he's absurdly durable.

If the media gives it to someone undeserving like Tatum due to narrative/ voter fatigue (no slight he just isn't the MVP like Derrick Rose) just to not give it to Jokic I'm going to be pissed.

[BelgradeNugget]

Jokic won't win for the same reason LeBron didn't win in 2011 or Giannis in 2021. They didn't want to give it to someone for the third time in the row.
LeBron finished 2nd or 3rd (Howard?) in 2011, Giannis 4th(...) in 2021.
It's not fair and it's stupid (the whole "voter fatigue") but it exists.

What was exactly argument for Giannis over Jokic in 2021?
And I don't thing LeBron deserved it in 2011 either. If you form a super-duper-hipper team, one of the best ever regarding star power, aren't expectations super high then? I mean to win at least 60 games, not to be 3rd in the NBA in standings.

[KGtabake]

Jokic won't win for the same reason LeBron didn't win in 2011 or Giannis in 2021. They didn't want to give it to someone for the third time in the row.
LeBron finished 2nd or 3rd (Howard?) in 2011, Giannis 4th(...) in 2021.
It's not fair and it's stupid (the whole "voter fatigue") but it exists.

What was exactly argument for Giannis over Jokic in 2021?
And I don't thing LeBron deserved it in 2011 either. If you form a super-duper-hipper team, one of the best ever regarding star power, aren't expectations super high then? I mean to win at least 60 games, not to be 3rd in the NBA in standings.

None. There was no real argument against him being in the top3 conversation either.
But he finished 4th in the voting. Not even 3rd. Steph finished 3rd as an 8th seed.
As for LeBron, i didn't have problem with Rose getting it(or Dwight). LeBron had a superteam of three star players and a supporting cast of nonames. His stats were great and a 3rd seed isn't against him.
All I'm saying is that voter fatigue is a thing and it will cost to Jokic no matter how good he plays.

[scrabbarista]

Jokic won't win for the same reason LeBron didn't win in 2011 or Giannis in 2021. They didn't want to give it to someone for the third time in the row.
LeBron finished 2nd or 3rd (Howard?) in 2011, Giannis 4th(...) in 2021.
It's not fair and it's stupid (the whole "voter fatigue") but it exists.

I wouldn't be so sure Jokic won't win. Times have changed. For the voters, it's much harder to hide behind "narrative" (or anonymity) than it was in 2011. There are still some media members whose reputations won't be altered by a "narrative" defense of their vote, but the majority, in my opinion, feel some responsibility to "the metrics," knowing that there are many fans who will shred them publicly or at least silently hold them in contempt if their votes stray too far from "the facts." It takes two seconds to google these facts, and they're a part of the general informed discussion of the sport. This wasn't true in 2011.

That was my point, but less saliently, I don't think voter fatigue, though it does exist, is why LeBron didn't win in 2011 or Giannis didn't win in 2021. Giannis is simple enough: he didn't deserve to win. LeBron definitely was robbed, but I think it had more to do with the fact of his tarnished image from The Decision and the perceived (not to say it wasn't also real) under-performance of the Heat, combined with the voters' jumping at the chance to participate in the star-making of Derrick Rose; where the lines blur between those facts and voter fatigue is anyone's guess, but it definitely wasn't merely a case of, "LeBron won the last two, so someone else needs to win this time." To my original point, statistics just weren't "in the way" of voters' hearts to the same degree then as they are now, (which, in my opinion, constitutes an improvement in the process).