Can Jokic finish top 10 all time without a championship?

[TheNG]

You can't lower your standard just because you like some player.
Just as any player to claim to be a GOAT candidate will always have to have at least 5 MVPs and 5 rings, as Russell, KAJ and MJ have, any player who claim a spot in the top 10 must have at list 1 ring.

[dhsilv2]

Sure.

Obviously the low life scum who watch SAS and Skip won't agree, but who cares? If he's a top 10 player he's a top 10 player. Winning is a team game.

Will the general public (80% of which don't add value to society) agree? Well maybe not. But who cares?

[Bmaasse]

Sure.

Obviously the low life scum who watch SAS and Skip won't agree, but who cares? If he's a top 10 player he's a top 10 player. Winning is a team game.

Will the general public (80% of which don't add value to society) agree? Well maybe not. But who cares?

Not a fan of SAS or Skip, but "low life scum" is pretty extreme imo. Lol

[holdenwait]

impossible, obviously

[KGtabake]

Sure.

Obviously the low life scum who watch SAS and Skip won't agree, but who cares? If he's a top 10 player he's a top 10 player. Winning is a team game.

Will the general public (80% of which don't add value to society) agree? Well maybe not. But who cares?

I don't know if i belong in the general public but winning a ring(or more) as a star(saying this in advance in case someone mentions robert horry lol) is what solidifies a place in the top10.
You play to win the trophy.
Simply put, if he's a top10 player of all time, then he will have a ring when all is said and done.
If he doesn't win one, he's not.
I don't know any player who could be in the top10 without a ring. The closests i can think of are Elgin Baylor and Charles Barkley. I have none of them in my top15.

[big-shot-ROB]

No one on the top 10 is without a ring.

In the center position alone, we know he's not better than: KAJ, Wilt, Bill Russell, Shaq, or Hakeem. Even if he wins two more MVPs or even one ring. That puts him at best top 6 at center.

I put him slightly above David Robinson and Ewing.

With the other positions for MJ, LeBron, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Oscar...there's no room for him in the top 10. Hakeem and Shaq would it that list before him.

He's closer to Shaq, Russell or Wilt in terms of quality than to Robinson or Ewing. It's just the post-season success is not there.

[Eric Millegan]

yes. title or bust people are morons. it's a team sport.

If it’s a team sport, why are we ranking individuals to begin with?

[big-shot-ROB]

Who is Jokic not better than offensively in the hypothetical top 10?
He's better than Bird.

Bird is basically the SF version of Jokic so I would not conclude that this fast & easily

[scrabbarista]

I don't see it, even as his #1 fan.

DEFINITELY not in the general consensus, as he's likely to always be underrated, but I doubt I'd even put him there. Not literally impossible, but virtually impossible. Honestly, at this point it's tough to get top ten without two titles.

[big-shot-ROB]

So basically Karl Malone is the most highly regarded non-champion, and Jokic has already reached a higher peak than Malone ever did.

This is basically the take. If he adds 1 more MVP and a lucky ring, I think there's a serious debate. I think it can be a discussion with the Oscar's, Kobe's, West's & Durant's. It's going to be hard though

Jordan
KAJ, LeBron
Magic, Bird, Duncan, Russell, Shaq
Curry, Hakeem, Wilt

That's 11. All of them have at least 2 rings.

I don't see a way for him to crack the Magic & Bird tier (unless something dramatic happens). If the above happens (3 MVPs, 1 ring) then it'll be personal preference but it will still be tough.

[scrabbarista]

Who is Jokic not better than offensively in the hypothetical top 10?

He's better than Bird.

He's better Kobe.

He's better than Hakeem.

He's better than Wilt.

He's better than Duncan.

He's better than Giannis.

He's better than Bill Russell.

He's up there with MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Shaq, Magic and Curry as an offensive player.

And if you can put Curry, Shaq, and Larry Bird on the top 10 when they never ever were great defensive players, I don't wanna hear it. I don't care.

That's on coaching and management to cover up whatever defensive deficiencies that exist.

Then you have to decide does Jokic give you a better chance of winning a ring vs. other players in terms of career value.

How many wins does he add each season.

The best seasons he put up were loss seasons where he dragged his team to the playoffs when they shouldn't have been there.

I'll take Jokic over anybody but Curry, Giannis, MJ, Kareem, Shaq and LeBron without hesitation.

He's a GOAT level player, I don't care if he never wins a ring.

Jokic is better than majority of the top 10 that people have on their list as an individual talent.

Y'all just care about legacy and rings too damn much like that matters to how great a player is.

How old are you? Just curious.

You actually beat me to asking this question....

I think a lot of us were wondering...

[Bum Adebayo]

I have MJ and Lebron above him, who else is above him? I don't think there are good arguments to put him lower than 3rd TBH.

[druggas]

Who is Jokic not better than offensively in the hypothetical top 10?

He's better than Bird.

He's better Kobe.

He's better than Hakeem.

He's better than Wilt.

He's better than Duncan.

He's better than Giannis.

He's better than Bill Russell.

He's up there with MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Shaq, Magic and Curry as an offensive player.

And if you can put Curry, Shaq, and Larry Bird on the top 10 when they never ever were great defensive players, I don't wanna hear it. I don't care.

That's on coaching and management to cover up whatever defensive deficiencies that exist.

Then you have to decide does Jokic give you a better chance of winning a ring vs. other players in terms of career value.

How many wins does he add each season.

The best seasons he put up were loss seasons where he dragged his team to the playoffs when they shouldn't have been there.

I'll take Jokic over anybody but Curry, Giannis, MJ, Kareem, Shaq and LeBron without hesitation.

He's a GOAT level player, I don't care if he never wins a ring.

Jokic is better than majority of the top 10 that people have on their list as an individual talent.

Y'all just care about legacy and rings too damn much like that matters to how great a player is.

You must be kidding.

[ShazamDaShiznt]

No he can't

Watch on YouTube

[Ito]

You gon need a ring.. or even final appearances.. Dirk got no recognition til he won

[brutalitops]

Nope

Kind of like How Duncan/Bird are not top 10 because they have no DPOY trophys

[HMFFL]

I mean he might be objectively one of the 10 most talented basketball players ever but he's never going to be top 10 in anyone's personal opinion without a title.

I do think he'll win a title eventually in his career, but probably not on the Nuggets. There isn't much indication from this franchise that they're going to surround Jokic with a team that's good enough to feasibly compete for a title any time soon.

I agree.
MPJ to me is one player that needs to be packaged if he ever raises his value. His contract may make other teams hesitant to take him on. I don't believe he's a first, second, or third option on a true championship team. He has such a low IQ for the game and he failed to make an impact when he was Jokic's #2 in the playoffs.

Denver needs to figure things out sooner than later.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[threethehardway]

I think a lot of us were wondering...

I just don't hold the past in high regard as other people do.

Time moves on. I am not one of those people that are gonna be hung up on something that happened 25 years ago and stay hyping it up, when something is clearly better.

Like If you can't look at the seasons that Giannis, Jokic and Curry have put up in the last 10 years and not acknowledge that they are clearly better than at least 3 players on the current top 10 list then why even watch the sport?

People really watching 3 of the best players to ever play, having the greatest seasons of all time, but they are not top 10 because of what? Because of you didn't perform the cross era calculations to determine how much better vs. level of defense and pace.

No, they are just flat tout better 9 times out of 10.

After Lebron's MVP 2008-2009 season, I acknowledged he was a top 10 GOAT player.

After KG's MVP 2003-2004, I acknowledged he was a top 10 GOAT player.

And when another player comes along, that tops what they have done, they get moved out.

Jokic, Giannis, Curry are in my top 10 players ever along with Shaq, Lebron, MJ, Magic, Hakeem, Kareem, Russell.

I don't factor championships when it comes to individual greatness and talent of a player. It isn't the job of the great to drag the less talented and unable across the finish line. It's the job of the less talented to get better or get the hell out of the way. I care about MVPs and peak seasons along with a relatively long enough career to win a ring.

The obsession NBA fans have about rings and watching star players carry scrubs that shouldn't even play is interesting.

Is the player an MVP caliber player or not?? That's all that really matters. If' he's not, then his career is of no consequence anyway in terms of being a top 10 GOAT.

Sidenote: Lol @ people comparing Karl Malone to Jokic, come on really?

Who is Jokic not better than offensively in the hypothetical top 10?
He's better than Bird.

Bird is basically the SF version of Jokic so I would not conclude that this fast & easily

Jokic is definitively a better offensive player than Larry Bird, come on now.

[scrabbarista]

I think a lot of us were wondering...

I just don't hold the past in high regard as other people do.

Time moves on. I am not one of those people that are gonna be hung up on something that happened 25 years ago and stay hyping it up, when something is clearly better.

Like If you can't look at the seasons that Giannis, Jokic and Curry have put up in the last 10 years and not acknowledge that they are clearly better than at least 3 players on the current top 10 list then why even watch the sport?

People really watching 3 of the best players to ever play, having the greatest seasons of all time, but they are not top 10 because of what? Because of you didn't perform the cross era calculations to determine how much better vs. level of defense and pace.

No, they are just flat tout better 9 times out of 10.

After Lebron's MVP 2008-2009 season, I acknowledged he was a top 10 GOAT player.

After KG's MVP 2003-2004, I acknowledged he was a top 10 GOAT player.

And when another player comes along, that tops what they have done, they get moved out.

Jokic, Giannis, Curry are in my top 10 players ever along with Shaq, Lebron, MJ, Magic, Hakeem, Kareem, Russell.

I don't factor championships when it comes to individual greatness and talent of a player. It isn't the job of the great to drag the less talented and unable across the finish line. It's the job of the less talented to get better or get the hell out of the way. I care about MVPs and peak seasons along with a relatively long enough career to win a ring.

The obsession NBA fans have about rings and watching star players carry scrubs that shouldn't even play is interesting.

Is the player an MVP caliber player or not. That's all that really matters. If' he's not, then his career is of no consequence anyway in terms of being a top 10 GOAT.

Sidenote: Lol @ people comparing Karl Malone to Jokic, come on really?

Who is Jokic not better than offensively in the hypothetical top 10?
He's better than Bird.

Bird is basically the SF version of Jokic so I would not conclude that this fast & easily

Jokic is definitively a better offensive player than Larry Bird, come on now.

Fair enough. You have different criteria. I have Duncan 4th.

[falcolombardi]

In the public view? Probably not

Garnett is the equivalent of jokic in many ways but with 1 ring and is out of most people top 10's