Better Than Zion: The Jalen McDaniels Thread

[Bassman]

Is Jalen officially better than PJ?

Last 10: 14/4/3 on 50% shooting.

Yes…slightly better which makes him a sort of average NBA player, best contributing off the bench. Still need a better PF.

[JDR720]

Is Jalen officially better than PJ?

Last 10: 14/4/3 on 50% shooting.

Yes…slightly better which makes him a sort of average NBA player, best contributing off the bench. Still need a better PF.

I hear there is a 7 foot 5 French dude in the draft.

[UNCNYC]

Is Jalen officially better than PJ?

Last 10: 14/4/3 on 50% shooting.

Yeah I think by a good marjine but not huge. The reason why is Jalen never really hurts the team and when he helps the team he helps the team, where as PJ can hurt the team even when he helps the team in some instances with ball stoppage.

[UNCNYC]

In a weird way Jalen could be considered an NEAR allstar PF but not in the NUMBERS sense. His valuabilty as a whole. From his contract, to ability to play up to 4 positions in spots, to his helping not hurting a team. He is more of what you would want if you didn't land a ALL STAR player. He is probably better than a low level all star because many of those players are over rated and over paid but no where near as good as a great one..

[nature_boyy97]

There's still a lot of season left but at this point, I would S&T PJ during the summer and bring back Jalen on the same contract Cody got to come off the bench. Use that extra $$$ to find a starter that can hold it down at the 4.

[JMAC3]

Yeah I think by a good marjine but not huge. The reason why is Jalen never really hurts the team and when he helps the team he helps the team, where as PJ can hurt the team even when he helps the team in some instances with ball stoppage.

If by Jalen never hurts team means he can score 5 points and you can look at the boxscore and not notice it then yes. PJ hurts the team more because we depend him on more and when he has a bad game it is felt more. Replacing PJ with McDaniels and having to count on him every night and then ask yourself if Jalen never hurts the team.

He is solid, I like he can play the 3 or 4... I am not with the "he can play 4 positions" stuff.... He has played 3% of his minutes in his career at the 2+5 combined with ZERO of that coming this year.

[UNCNYC]

Yeah I think by a good marjine but not huge. The reason why is Jalen never really hurts the team and when he helps the team he helps the team, where as PJ can hurt the team even when he helps the team in some instances with ball stoppage.

If by Jalen never hurts team means he can score 5 points and you can look at the boxscore and not notice it then yes. PJ hurts the team more because we depend him on more and when he has a bad game it is felt more. Replacing PJ with McDaniels and having to count on him every night and then ask yourself if Jalen never hurts the team.

He is solid, I like he can play the 3 or 4... I am not with the "he can play 4 positions" stuff.... He has played 3% of his minutes in his career at the 2+5 combined with ZERO of that coming this year.

I wouldn't exactly call what PJ gives us as something we DEPEND ON lol.
At least not scoring wise... Nor would I say we depend on Jalen. Neither are DEPENDABLE players in that regard.
If I have to depend on something/someone I want that dependancy to either come in a more consistant form,
or if I am going to overlook that lack of concistancy when you do deliver what you are expected too on the court I want
it to be over 20 pts etc.... without taking many shots, if I am going to even CONSIDER it at it as a dependancy.

What I mean by Jalen doesn't REALLY hurt the team is EVERY PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE has bad games but some players
bad games come from ball stoppage. Others come with them taking what the defense gives them.

PJ and Jalen have completely different games. Jalen will consistantly pass up opportunities to score while whether
PJ scores or not is more than likely going to look for his shot along with Oubre and Rozier.

I would take Jalen over PJ because I know if I did land an all star I would not have to worry about one player taking
anything away from that other all star...

As far as multi posisitional play goes that is something no player does 100 percent of the time just a perk I love which
unfairly I did not point out that PJ does quite well as well, Just a preference of mine in a player...

[UNCNYC]

In defense of PJ.

1. I will give him somewhat of a pass due to his off the court issues.

2. although Jalen visably doesn't hurt the team there is no way to really know if he doesn't at all.

[JMAC3]

Yeah I think by a good marjine but not huge. The reason why is Jalen never really hurts the team and when he helps the team he helps the team, where as PJ can hurt the team even when he helps the team in some instances with ball stoppage.

If by Jalen never hurts team means he can score 5 points and you can look at the boxscore and not notice it then yes. PJ hurts the team more because we depend him on more and when he has a bad game it is felt more. Replacing PJ with McDaniels and having to count on him every night and then ask yourself if Jalen never hurts the team.

He is solid, I like he can play the 3 or 4... I am not with the "he can play 4 positions" stuff.... He has played 3% of his minutes in his career at the 2+5 combined with ZERO of that coming this year.

I would take Jalen over PJ because I know if I did land an all star I would not have to worry about one player taking
anything away from that other all star...

My point is if we let PJ walk, and McDaniels is signed to be the starter. I think most of us would be pretty disappointed with him on a night to night basis. McDaniels now is in a good role, if he has a big game we love it. If he takes 3 shots and plays 15 minutes nobody is bugging out. He has to really have an awful game to go noticed as playing awful.

Where as PJ has an off night, we all immediately notice and it affects the team more.

[UNCNYC]

If by Jalen never hurts team means he can score 5 points and you can look at the boxscore and not notice it then yes. PJ hurts the team more because we depend him on more and when he has a bad game it is felt more. Replacing PJ with McDaniels and having to count on him every night and then ask yourself if Jalen never hurts the team.

He is solid, I like he can play the 3 or 4... I am not with the "he can play 4 positions" stuff.... He has played 3% of his minutes in his career at the 2+5 combined with ZERO of that coming this year.

I would take Jalen over PJ because I know if I did land an all star I would not have to worry about one player taking
anything away from that other all star...

My point is if we let PJ walk, and McDaniels is signed to be the starter. I think most of us would be pretty disappointed with him on a night to night basis. McDaniels now is in a good role, if he has a big game we love it. If he takes 3 shots and plays 15 minutes nobody is bugging out. He has to really have an awful game to go noticed as playing awful.

Where as PJ has an off night, we all immediately notice and it affects the team more.

With all due respect to your opinion * which I truly respect JMAC3*

I think it's fair to say that most of us are fairly dissappointed with PJ on a night to night basis currently, so
to suggest that another player wouldn't be able to perform to the level of the current player who isn't performing
well at that level and who will demand a higher pay doesn't hold much weight imo. Even if we took pay out of it.
Especially when suggested replacement player is having what most would consider the better season on the same team.

I never understood the logic in people trying to find or expecting to find a star at each position.

Not only does it rarely happen, but in the small chances it does, it doesn't always work. Chemestry is needed.

I think McDaniels is a good core player who solidifies a spot if you aren't fortunate enough to land a star.

Lets say we were to land GREEK FREAK. Having a guy like PJ would more than likely clash, because if PJ were to hit his
first attempt, rather than look for Greek freak, his track record of predicitability will more than likely lead to
him wanting to come down and go 2 for 2 and 3 for 3 etc...

Where as McDaniels for the most part will look to either give him or lamelo the ball regardless of how much he has.

People often attempt this

Lamelo
Curry
Lebron
Durant
Jokic

when this could be just as good or better at a cheaper price


Lamelo
Curry
McDaniels
Durrant
Nick

[Diop]

Yeah mcdaniels would be fine between lebron and AD, but probably not good enough between Hayward and Plumlee

[UNCNYC]

Yeah mcdaniels would be fine between lebron and AD, but probably not good enough between Hayward and Plumlee

I agree there, although not sure AD is good/healthy enough to play between either group lol

[JMAC3]

Having a guy like PJ would more than likely clash, because if PJ were to hit his
first attempt....

I'm not sure PJ is that type of player though?... He has been a guy that mainly played as 3rd or 4th option in the past around Bridges, Rozier, LaMelo etc... and for the most part been a good contributor.

The issue with PJ in my opinion is.. that he has failed to be efficient in a larger role vacated by injuries this season. Which to me was expected. He isn't a star, nor do I think he views himself like that.

He has come off bench in past with no issues. He is a swiss army knife of shooting, passing, shot blocking and an improving defender. That is the type of guy IMO that makes sense as a stretch 4 around 2-3 elite scorers.

If we can resign him for 12-16 million its a no brainer for me, if he starts getting offers above 20 million, then maybe I would look around at sign and trades. I just personally don't think teams around the league are going to value him at 20+, so I feel comfortable we can get him back reasonably.

[Liver_Pooty]

PJs FG % is nearly below 40% for the year. He can't rebound. Apparently this year he's forgotten to shoot from deep unfortunately. He's a good player, but in a contract year with Miles being absolutely stupid he had a lottery ticket that he forgot to cash in on. I wouldn't give him 12 million a year at this point. Bobby Portis doesn't even make that and he's a much better player than PJ

[JMAC3]

PJs FG % is nearly below 40% for the year. He can't rebound. Apparently this year he's forgotten to shoot from deep unfortunately. He's a good player, but in a contract year with Miles being absolutely stupid he had a lottery ticket that he forgot to cash in on. I wouldn't give him 12 million a year at this point. Bobby Portis doesn't even make that and he's a much better player than PJ

Bobby Portis is probably one of the best values in the league and chose to resign because Bucks are contenders... if that is your bar whether to resign PJ that seems like a broken standard.

PJ has sucked as a go to option. Hayward hurt, Rozier mostly hurt, LaMelo hurt... PJ isn't meant to be a volume scorer, but he was all we had so we ran offense through him. It didn't work. Doesn't mean he is a bad player. Pretty sure Mikal Bridges and Josh Hart would be pretty inefficient players as well if you were forcing them to shoot 18+ shots every single night... Doesn't mean they are bad players and should not be paid.

PJ is 24 years old. For a team with little talent, open salary for most part and rebuilding it makes no sense to pinch pennies on him.

[Liver_Pooty]

PJs FG % is nearly below 40% for the year. He can't rebound. Apparently this year he's forgotten to shoot from deep unfortunately. He's a good player, but in a contract year with Miles being absolutely stupid he had a lottery ticket that he forgot to cash in on. I wouldn't give him 12 million a year at this point. Bobby Portis doesn't even make that and he's a much better player than PJ

Bobby Portis is probably one of the best values in the league and chose to resign because Bucks are contenders... if that is your bar whether to resign PJ that seems like a broken standard.

PJ has sucked as a go to option. Hayward hurt, Rozier mostly hurt, LaMelo hurt... PJ isn't meant to be a volume scorer, but he was all we had so we ran offense through him. It didn't work. Doesn't mean he is a bad player. Pretty sure Mikal Bridges and Josh Hart would be pretty inefficient players as well if you were forcing them to shoot 18+ shots every single night... Doesn't mean they are bad players and should not be paid.

PJ is 24 years old. For a team with little talent, open salary for most part and rebuilding it makes no sense to pinch pennies on him.

Pretty sure I said he was a good player in my post. Read.

[Liver_Pooty]

PJ gets a pass because the entire team is hurt but might literally be the worst open shooter with no one within 50 yards of him in the league. Alright.

[JMAC3]

Pretty sure I said he was a good player in my post. Read.

You said PJ is good, but he isn't worth 12 million per year at age 24? That doesn't really seem to add up.

I will take the sample size of his first three years in the league of him being a 37%+ shooter from range. That is really good for most players, but probably top 10% of PF/Centers in the league.

[amcoolio]

I would say PJ is well below league average as a starter

Similar 4/5's:

Giannis, Durant, Davis, Siakam, Zion, Bam, Towns, JJJ, Mobley, Markkanen, Banchero, Barnes, OG, Wagner, Sabonis
These players are flat out better, no contest. Thats 15 already

Randle, Kuzma, Aaron Gordon, Porter Jr., Horford, Collins, Jeremi Grant, Harris
Playing better than PJ right now and probably will for the next few seasons, that's now 23

Now, lets list players in PJ's range (in parenthesis if I would trade PJ 1:1 for):
Keegan Murray (I would trade PJ 1:1 for), Wendell Carter (yes), Jabari Smith (yes), Okongwu (yes), Tari Eason (already playing very well as a rookie, hell yes), Dorian Finney-Smith (wash), Cam Johnson (wash), Brandon Clarke (yes), Vanderbilt (wash), Portis (wash, but probably yes), Wood (yes), Bagley (wash), Love (no), Rui (no), Poku (yes), Minny McDaniels (yes), Charlotte McDaniels (we already have him, but statistically he's better than PJ), Nance (yes), Boucher (no), Looney, (no), Draymond (no), Olynyk (no), Kenyon Martin Jr. (no)

That means out of 40-ish starting spots in the NBA for similar 4/5 forwards, PJ is probably near the very bottom. I think its a reasonable conclusion that PJ isn't worth 12 million a year and you can simply draft someone in the first round that would have better production within a year or two instead of wasting that money

[UNCNYC]

I would say PJ is well below league average as a starter

Similar 4/5's:

Giannis, Durant, Davis, Siakam, Zion, Bam, Towns, JJJ, Mobley, Markkanen, Banchero, Barnes, OG, Wagner, Sabonis
These players are flat out better, no contest. Thats 15 already

Randle, Kuzma, Aaron Gordon, Porter Jr., Horford, Collins, Jeremi Grant, Harris
Playing better than PJ right now and probably will for the next few seasons, that's now 23

Now, lets list players in PJ's range (in parenthesis if I would trade PJ 1:1 for):
Keegan Murray (I would trade PJ 1:1 for), Wendell Carter (yes), Jabari Smith (yes), Okongwu (yes), Tari Eason (already playing very well as a rookie, hell yes), Dorian Finney-Smith (wash), Cam Johnson (wash), Brandon Clarke (yes), Vanderbilt (wash), Portis (wash, but probably yes), Wood (yes), Bagley (wash), Love (no), Rui (no), Poku (yes), Minny McDaniels (yes), Charlotte McDaniels (we already have him, but statistically he's better than PJ), Nance (yes), Boucher (no), Looney, (no), Draymond (no), Olynyk (no), Kenyon Martin Jr. (no)

That means out of 40-ish starting spots in the NBA for similar 4/5 forwards, PJ is probably near the very bottom. I think its a reasonable conclusion that PJ isn't worth 12 million a year and you can simply draft someone in the first round that would have better production within a year or two instead of wasting that money

You forgot to include

Spoiler:

YuTa Watanabe

YES