Can Jokic finish top 10 all time without a championship?

[dhsilv2]

Sure.

Obviously the low life scum who watch SAS and Skip won't agree, but who cares? If he's a top 10 player he's a top 10 player. Winning is a team game.

Will the general public (80% of which don't add value to society) agree? Well maybe not. But who cares?

I don't know if i belong in the general public but winning a ring(or more) as a star(saying this in advance in case someone mentions robert horry lol) is what solidifies a place in the top10.
You play to win the trophy.
Simply put, if he's a top10 player of all time, then he will have a ring when all is said and done.
If he doesn't win one, he's not.
I don't know any player who could be in the top10 without a ring. The closests i can think of are Elgin Baylor and Charles Barkley. I have none of them in my top15.

Well, if you want more KD to teh warriors teams, this is how you get them. Through most of NBA history being the best player would eventually get you a ring. That's not the case anymore. The league is too deep and too talented.

[hardenASG13]

Seems a bit too much. Maybe he can start his GOAT case by taking over a single playoff series and upsetting a good team once in the playoffs, as a top 10 player ever should, before we have this discussion.

[Bmaasse]

It feels like most of the Joker supporters on this board are not actually fans of the Denver Nuggets.

It's bizarre to see so many posters that have completely given up on the idea that the team can be successful, and are now simply rooting for individual accolades. 3 straight MVPs without a finals appearance would be disappointing to me as a fan, but whatever.

Considering that the super team era is behind us, there's no reason why the Nuggets can't be in the mix for the next few years to come if they truly have the "best player in the NBA". If he's that good, he shouldn't need that much help.

[BK_2020]

If he plays at a current level until age 31 or so then ages normally (for a superstar) I don't ser how you don't put him in the top 10.
Rangz is such a dumb argument.

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[dhsilv2]

It feels like most of the Joker supporters on this board are not actually fans of the Denver Nuggets.

It's bizarre to see so many posters that have completely given up on the idea that the team can be successful, and are now simply rooting for individual accolades. 3 straight MVPs without a finals appearance would be disappointing to me as a fan, but whatever.

Considering that the super team era is behind us, there's no reason why the Nuggets can't be in the mix for the next few years to come if they truly have the "best player in the NBA". If he's that good, he shouldn't need that much help.

No team is winning without 2 allstar level players. And the nuggets don't have that. It's Jokic and two highly paid guys who haven't show they can sustain that kind of impact. And why should Jokic be different from Lebron? Lebron has countless fans who follow him anywhere he goes. Jokic is an all time great and he's going to have fans of him the player vs the team he's on.

[Bmaasse]

It feels like most of the Joker supporters on this board are not actually fans of the Denver Nuggets.

It's bizarre to see so many posters that have completely given up on the idea that the team can be successful, and are now simply rooting for individual accolades. 3 straight MVPs without a finals appearance would be disappointing to me as a fan, but whatever.

Considering that the super team era is behind us, there's no reason why the Nuggets can't be in the mix for the next few years to come if they truly have the "best player in the NBA". If he's that good, he shouldn't need that much help.

No team is winning without 2 allstar level players. And the nuggets don't have that. It's Jokic and two highly paid guys who haven't show they can sustain that kind of impact. And why should Jokic be different from Lebron? Lebron has countless fans who follow him anywhere he goes. Jokic is an all time great and he's going to have fans of him the player vs the team he's on.

Right now Denver is in second place. If they maintain that position for another month, it's pretty much a lock that they will send 2 players to the All star game.

[LakersLegacy]

Can anyone finish top 10 with just 1 championship ??

The bar is pretty high

[dhsilv2]

It feels like most of the Joker supporters on this board are not actually fans of the Denver Nuggets.

It's bizarre to see so many posters that have completely given up on the idea that the team can be successful, and are now simply rooting for individual accolades. 3 straight MVPs without a finals appearance would be disappointing to me as a fan, but whatever.

Considering that the super team era is behind us, there's no reason why the Nuggets can't be in the mix for the next few years to come if they truly have the "best player in the NBA". If he's that good, he shouldn't need that much help.

No team is winning without 2 allstar level players. And the nuggets don't have that. It's Jokic and two highly paid guys who haven't show they can sustain that kind of impact. And why should Jokic be different from Lebron? Lebron has countless fans who follow him anywhere he goes. Jokic is an all time great and he's going to have fans of him the player vs the team he's on.

Right now Denver is in second place. If they maintain that position for another month, it's pretty much a lock that they will send 2 players to the All star game.

We can all hope the league doesn't taint the allstar game with a terrible choice. But again I said "All star LEVEL". Wiggins made the allstar game last year, he isn't an allstar level player.

[TravisScott55]

Jokic fans already with the copium

Worst MVP since Nash and Cowens

[hardenASG13]

It feels like most of the Joker supporters on this board are not actually fans of the Denver Nuggets.

It's bizarre to see so many posters that have completely given up on the idea that the team can be successful, and are now simply rooting for individual accolades. 3 straight MVPs without a finals appearance would be disappointing to me as a fan, but whatever.

Considering that the super team era is behind us, there's no reason why the Nuggets can't be in the mix for the next few years to come if they truly have the "best player in the NBA". If he's that good, he shouldn't need that much help.

No team is winning without 2 allstar level players. And the nuggets don't have that. It's Jokic and two highly paid guys who haven't show they can sustain that kind of impact. And why should Jokic be different from Lebron? Lebron has countless fans who follow him anywhere he goes. Jokic is an all time great and he's going to have fans of him the player vs the team he's on.

Right now Denver is in second place. If they maintain that position for another month, it's pretty much a lock that they will send 2 players to the All star game.

Exactly! Guys like LeBron (Mo williams) and even Giannis, who I don't consider a top 10 candidate until he beats some legit teams in the playoffs (haven't seen it) (Middleton) have elevated borderline all stars before. That's generally what all time greats do, they elevate teammates to all stars, because their team ends up being really good. Because they are all time great players. Jokic has Murray, Gordon, MPJ, Hyland, Brown, KCP. Plenty of help for an all time talent. He needs to deliver if he's so great to even remotely enter this conversation this thread is centered around.

[Cubbies2120]

It feels like most of the Joker supporters on this board are not actually fans of the Denver Nuggets.

It's bizarre to see so many posters that have completely given up on the idea that the team can be successful, and are now simply rooting for individual accolades. 3 straight MVPs without a finals appearance would be disappointing to me as a fan, but whatever.

Considering that the super team era is behind us, there's no reason why the Nuggets can't be in the mix for the next few years to come if they truly have the "best player in the NBA". If he's that good, he shouldn't need that much help.

No team is winning without 2 allstar level players. And the nuggets don't have that. It's Jokic and two highly paid guys who haven't show they can sustain that kind of impact. And why should Jokic be different from Lebron? Lebron has countless fans who follow him anywhere he goes. Jokic is an all time great and he's going to have fans of him the player vs the team he's on.

Right now Denver is in second place. If they maintain that position for another month, it's pretty much a lock that they will send 2 players to the All star game.

Who will they send to the all star game? Jokic and?

[KGtabake]

Sure.

Obviously the low life scum who watch SAS and Skip won't agree, but who cares? If he's a top 10 player he's a top 10 player. Winning is a team game.

Will the general public (80% of which don't add value to society) agree? Well maybe not. But who cares?

I don't know if i belong in the general public but winning a ring(or more) as a star(saying this in advance in case someone mentions robert horry lol) is what solidifies a place in the top10.
You play to win the trophy.
Simply put, if he's a top10 player of all time, then he will have a ring when all is said and done.
If he doesn't win one, he's not.
I don't know any player who could be in the top10 without a ring. The closests i can think of are Elgin Baylor and Charles Barkley. I have none of them in my top15.

Well, if you want more KD to teh warriors teams, this is how you get them. Through most of NBA history being the best player would eventually get you a ring. That's not the case anymore. The league is too deep and too talented.

KD was an exception not the norm.
Plus he isn't top10 or close to it.

[Cubbies2120]

Jokic has Murray, Gordon, MPJ, Hyland, Brown, KCP. Plenty of help for an all time talent. He needs to deliver if he's so great to even remotely enter this conversation this thread is centered around.

Are you just naming players for the sake of naming players?

Hyland? Brown?

Plenty of help for an all time great talent yet none will sniff remotely close to an all star game...and if recent history is any indication, he'll probably be missing a couple of these guys in the playoffs (but maybe he should be in charge of their conditioning, training, etc. too?)

I'm gonna ask you a simple question, and I don't expect an answer since this question keeps getting ignored fans of other MVP candidates, but here it is anyways:

Which Top-10 (or even top 15) candidate could you look back on in history, and remove their #2 and #3 options, and they still win the ring that year. I'd like to hear a name and the season please. Oh, keep in mind there's no replacement for them, so there's no "Take Kobe off the '01 Lakers and replace him with Tmac and they still win it all"...no, you remove those 2 players and their backups fill their shoes.

I'm genuinely curious, because if we don't think any top 10 all time players could have their top 2 options removed and still win it all, why do we hold that against Jokic? Is he held to a higher standard because people recognize his potential? Or?

[Darthlukey]

If Jokic continues his play for many more seasons, can he be the only top 10 player without a title? (I don't think there's a top 10 player without a title)

He's never had an all-star teammate. Is there a top 10 player that's never had an all-star teammate? This is quite unfortunate for Jokic and quite surprising, considering he'd be the perfect teammate for an elite offensive weapon. Free agents should be clamoring to play with Jokic.

We may be looking at an unprecedented situation. I suppose there's an unwritten rule that you have to win a title to be top 10, but that would be an unfair expectation for Jokic at this time.

Joker is amazing and hands down my favourite player in the league. He could do this for another say 5 seasons and wouldnt come close to cracking top 10 without multiple titles (1 title isnt gonna cut it).

[hardenASG13]

Jokic has Murray, Gordon, MPJ, Hyland, Brown, KCP. Plenty of help for an all time talent. He needs to deliver if he's so great to even remotely enter this conversation this thread is centered around.

Are you just naming players for the sake of naming players?

Hyland? Brown?

Plenty of help for an all time great talent yet none will sniff remotely close to an all star game...and if recent history is any indication, he'll probably be missing a couple of these guys in the playoffs (but maybe he should be in charge of their conditioning, training, etc. too?)

I'm gonna ask you a simple question, and I don't expect an answer since this question keeps getting ignored fans of other MVP candidates, but here it is anyways:

Which Top-10 (or even top 15) candidate could you look back on in history, and remove their #2 and #3 options, and they still win the ring that year. I'd like to hear a name and the season please. Oh, keep in mind there's no replacement for them, so there's no "Take Kobe off the '01 Lakers and replace him with Tmac and they still win it all"...no, you remove those 2 players and their backups fill their shoes.

I'm genuinely curious, because if we don't think any top 10 all time players could have their top 2 options removed and still win it all, why do we hold that against Jokic? Is he held to a higher standard because people recognize his potential? Or?

I'm not talking about winning a championship. I'm talking about winning a playoff series vs. a good team. A top 10 all time talent should be able to do it with that cast. Maybe he will this year. Maybe take over a series one time and lead an upset for a round. Until then, this discussion is ridiculous. Chill out. I'm not a diehard fan of any other MVP candidate. I'm a grown up.

[CharityStripe34]

Are there any all-timers who have never won that someone considers one of the 10 best ever? Barkley, Malone, Baylor, Ewing, Nash, CP3? Legit curious.

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[Cubbies2120]

Maybe take over a series one time and lead an upset for a round. Until then, this discussion is ridiculous. Chill out. I'm not a diehard fan of any other MVP candidate. I'm a grown up.

You mean like beating the NBA title favorite Clippers in 2020? Or is that not an upset?

He has been eliminated by the best team in his conference (or NBA 2x) each of the last 3 years, two of those years without his #2 option.

So you're basically saying "Why can't he beat the best team in the NBA without his 2nd best player?"...

[Cubbies2120]

Are there any all-timers who have never won that someone considers one of the 10 best ever? Barkley, Malone, Baylor, Ewing, Nash, CP3? Legit curious.

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I think the assumption here is he sustains his play and wins a couple more MVPs (or at least my understanding was), because 2 MVPs won't cut it for top 10.

4 MVPs and you gotta start talking about him in top 10, especially if there are extenuating circumstances like he's had the last couple years.

[CharityStripe34]

Are there any all-timers who have never won that someone considers one of the 10 best ever? Barkley, Malone, Baylor, Ewing, Nash, CP3? Legit curious.

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I think the assumption here is he sustains his play and wins a couple more MVPs (or at least my understanding was), because 2 MVPs won't cut it for top 10.

4 MVPs and you gotta start talking about him in top 10, especially if there are extenuating circumstances like he's had the last couple years.

I've wondered the same for Giannis. 15 players have won 2 or more MVPs ever. Two of them have currently just entered their prime and are active (with goat levels of impact). It's not completely out of the question that either of Giannis or Jokic (or both) win one more MVP. Only 8 guys have ever won three or more, with one (Moses) barely hanging on to Top 20(?) status, especially among the "Basketball before 2015 didn't exist" types (analytics geeks). If one, or both, wins one more MVP do they enter locked Top 20 territory?

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[reanimator]

Absolutely not

If individual stats are all that matters then just get rid of wins/losses and have the MVP trophy be the end all be all