Pascal is on the brink of SUPERSTARDOM...

[JB7]

We currently are shooting 34.1% on 14.7 wide open 3's per game, and 32.3% on 14.6 open 3's per game

In the ten games Siakam missed, this went to 32.3% on 13.6 wide open 3's per game (1.8% decrease) and 27% on 15.9 open 3's per game (a 5.3% decrease)

So can you explain why in games Siakam was injured and did not play, why did our open shooting %'s get worse FVV/GTJ both played 7 of those games, OG played all 10, Otto played 6, Precious 3, etc. so you can't use the "our shooters were out" card.+

Question 2 - Siakam has shot 1.1 more shots per game this year than last, and his assists have increased by 1.5, and his usage is only 0.9% higher than his previous career high. How does this support your opinion that he is focusing more on getting his own shot?

On the first Q: Siakam is still the best player right now on this team. You take the best player off any team, and it would effect the performance of the other players on the team, that now have increased pressure to produce, with the main scorer not available to draw attention of the defense.

On the second Q: your point of comparison for usage is 0.9% higher than his previous peak, which was the year after the championship, after Kawhi left a huge void which the team tried to supplement by force feeding Pascal. His usage jumped from 20.8% in the championship year to 28.1% in the following year, and this year it is 29%, 3.2% points higher than last year, which was 25.8%. How is he looking at getting his own shot. Watch the game. His first, second and third looks seems to be at the basket, and then he looks for teammates.

So you’ve hereby admitted he makes his teammates better with your response to question 1. Thanks.

And bruh every scorer in the entire NBA is “shoot first, pass 2nd”. Even Lebron.

His presence on the court helps his teammates because his draws the attention of the defense. But does him being the primary ball handler help his teammates shooting numbers, that is the question being asked.

Even Lebron knew to get his teammates going first before looking for his own shot, which we could get at any time.

[JB7]

We currently are shooting 34.1% on 14.7 wide open 3's per game, and 32.3% on 14.6 open 3's per game

In the ten games Siakam missed, this went to 32.3% on 13.6 wide open 3's per game (1.8% decrease) and 27% on 15.9 open 3's per game (a 5.3% decrease)

So can you explain why in games Siakam was injured and did not play, why did our open shooting %'s get worse FVV/GTJ both played 7 of those games, OG played all 10, Otto played 6, Precious 3, etc. so you can't use the "our shooters were out" card.+

Question 2 - Siakam has shot 1.1 more shots per game this year than last, and his assists have increased by 1.5, and his usage is only 0.9% higher than his previous career high. How does this support your opinion that he is focusing more on getting his own shot?

On the first Q: Siakam is still the best player right now on this team. You take the best player off any team, and it would effect the performance of the other players on the team, that now have increased pressure to produce, with the main scorer not available to draw attention of the defense.

On the second Q: your point of comparison for usage is 0.9% higher than his previous peak, which was the year after the championship, after Kawhi left a huge void which the team tried to supplement by force feeding Pascal. His usage jumped from 20.8% in the championship year to 28.1% in the following year, and this year it is 29%, 3.2% points higher than last year, which was 25.8%. How is he looking at getting his own shot. Watch the game. His first, second and third looks seems to be at the basket, and then he looks for teammates.

So you’ve hereby admitted he makes his teammates better with your response to question 1. Thanks.

And bruh every scorer in the entire NBA is “shoot first, pass 2nd”. Even Lebron.

His presence on the court helps his teammates because his draws the attention of the defense. But does him being the primary ball handler help his teammates shooting numbers, that is the question being asked.

Even Lebron knew to get his teammates going first before looking for his own shot, which we could get at any time.

[YogurtProducer]

On the first Q: Siakam is still the best player right now on this team. You take the best player off any team, and it would effect the performance of the other players on the team, that now have increased pressure to produce, with the main scorer not available to draw attention of the defense.

On the second Q: your point of comparison for usage is 0.9% higher than his previous peak, which was the year after the championship, after Kawhi left a huge void which the team tried to supplement by force feeding Pascal. His usage jumped from 20.8% in the championship year to 28.1% in the following year, and this year it is 29%, 3.2% points higher than last year, which was 25.8%. How is he looking at getting his own shot. Watch the game. His first, second and third looks seems to be at the basket, and then he looks for teammates.

So you’ve hereby admitted he makes his teammates better with your response to question 1. Thanks.

And bruh every scorer in the entire NBA is “shoot first, pass 2nd”. Even Lebron.

His presence on the court helps his teammates because his draws the attention of the defense. But does him being the primary ball handler help his teammates shooting numbers, that is the question being asked.

Even Lebron knew to get his teammates going first before looking for his own shot, which we could get at any time.

So essentially despite all the evidence stating you are wrong, you think you are right because "reasons".

I think we are done here.

[JB7]

So you’ve hereby admitted he makes his teammates better with your response to question 1. Thanks.

And bruh every scorer in the entire NBA is “shoot first, pass 2nd”. Even Lebron.

His presence on the court helps his teammates because his draws the attention of the defense. But does him being the primary ball handler help his teammates shooting numbers, that is the question being asked.

Even Lebron knew to get his teammates going first before looking for his own shot, which we could get at any time.

So essentially despite all the evidence stating you are wrong, you think you are right because "reasons".

I think we are done here.

You can position stats anyway you want to support your argument. Watch the actual game.

[will]

Pascal worked hard to be the best player and deserves to be called that. See, he has high goals about his play apparently, and with those comes a work ethic. One that is pretty elite. Having high standards but no work ethic or drive is pretty useless.

Absolutely.

Then why can't you give him that just one day after he scoress 52 instead of saying he's our best player by default only.

And lol.

Agreed.

[Tha Cynic]

I would think the issue on efficiency is more of a comparison to the previous year's numbers, than just looking at this year's numbers.

What? That doesn't make any sense though. That's not what we are comparing.

The question is why is the rest of the team shooting poorly overall, and comparing numbers that just focus on this year, where the structure of play from the first game has been more around Siakam as the primary distributor, would not tell as much. How did the other players perform when PS was not the primary distributor, which would have been seen more at the start of last season. By the end of the season the team was leaning heavily into PS.

PS' own personal play has progressed immensely, but the teams overall results have stagnated this season, as the opposition have adapted to the Raptors overall style of play better.

I understand what you're trying to say without living in stats all day. Siakam is a great passer though and at getting his team involved. You are right that he is more of a scorer than distributor. His stats have remained the same but there was a stretch last year where you could tell he was focusing heavily on getting people involved throughout the game ( I believe this was during one of the FVV injuries). The flow of the offense looked amazing even while missing shooters. He actually has the ability to be as good as Jokic in that sense, but I think either he or the team prefers him as a scorer more.

I think the offensive style has more to do with shooters being inconsistent and Siakam is simply playing that style the coaches have created. The Raptors do not generate a lot of movement from the defense on their open shots even if they can at times generate what the stats say are open shots. They typically play a two man game with one pass and shot or drive.

[YogurtProducer]

His presence on the court helps his teammates because his draws the attention of the defense. But does him being the primary ball handler help his teammates shooting numbers, that is the question being asked.

Even Lebron knew to get his teammates going first before looking for his own shot, which we could get at any time.

So essentially despite all the evidence stating you are wrong, you think you are right because "reasons".

I think we are done here.

You can position stats anyway you want to support your argument. Watch the actual game.

Love this argument - "watch the actual game".

Could have sworn I watched last nights game... So now the argument is "my eye test is better than your eye test".

[pingpongrac]

The commentators talk about this all the time. Getting players touches and feeling the ball, getting off early easy shots to build confidence. If a player does not touch a ball until the last couple minutes of a 1st quarter, and then in a more intense setting is expected to hit a big shot, generally they will shoot poorer.

Great distributors are looking to get their teammates going first, because the distributor is already handling the ball a lot, and can get their shot at any time.

His usage is 29 ffs. It's not high thirties or 40 like Luka where he needs to be concerned about that. He's 21st in usage, his 10th in assist rate of those 21.

You. Are. Reaching.

Ok, rather than comparing his usage to the extreme outlier of Luka, how about some other stars:

Curry - 31.2%
KD - 31.8%
Tatum - 32.5%
Booker - 31.6%
Ingram - 27%
Mitchell - 31.7%

29% is not far off those usage numbers, and the difference is all of those guys are knock down shooters from 3.

And you know what Siakam does better than 5/6 of those players? CREATE FOR OTHERS. His 6.8 AST per game is tied with Curry and his 31.9 AST% is 1.7% lower than Curry's while the next closest to Siakam is Booker at 5.8 AST per game with a 26.6 AST%. And he does all this with arguably the worst supporting cast of the bunch you've highlighted as proof that he doesn't pass enough while also taking the 5th least amount of shots (Ingram is way down in limited games this season).

Do you not understand how ridiculous your argument that Siakam doesn't make his teammates better and only looks to score first sounds?

[YogurtProducer]

His usage is 29 ffs. It's not high thirties or 40 like Luka where he needs to be concerned about that. He's 21st in usage, his 10th in assist rate of those 21.

You. Are. Reaching.

Ok, rather than comparing his usage to the extreme outlier of Luka, how about some other stars:

Curry - 31.2%
KD - 31.8%
Tatum - 32.5%
Booker - 31.6%
Ingram - 27%
Mitchell - 31.7%

29% is not far off those usage numbers, and the difference is all of those guys are knock down shooters from 3.

And you know what Siakam does better than 5/6 of those players? CREATE FOR OTHERS. His 6.8 AST per game is tied with Curry and his 31.9 AST% is 1.7% lower than Curry's while the next closest to Siakam is Booker at 5.8 AST per game with a 26.6 AST%. And he does all this with arguably the worst supporting cast of the bunch you've highlighted as proof that he doesn't pass enough while also taking the 5th least amount of shots (Ingram is way down in limited games this season).

Do you not understand how ridiculous your argument that Siakam doesn't make his teammates better and only looks to score first sounds?

Imagine Siakam surrounded by Brown, Smart, Brogdon, Horford, Williams, Hauser.

Aka guys that shoot between 34 and 44% from 3 rather than 28 and 33%. He legit might average 8 assists a night, or more.

[ItsDanger]

Siakam is more in that Jaylen Brown, Paul George tier. Very good #2 options on contenders. Superstar and top 15? I don't think so. He's playing the role of #1 option on a middling team and roster.

[YogurtProducer]

Siakam is more in that Jaylen Brown, Paul George tier. Very good #2 options on contenders. Superstar and top 15? I don't think so. He's playing the role of #1 option on a middling team and roster.

Siakam - 26/9/7 - 58.4TS%
George - 23/6/5 - 58.1TS%
Brown - 26/8/4 - 58.8TS%

Siakamis averaging the most points, rebounds, and assists of the 3 and is the exact same efficiency as a #1 as those guys are as #2's (or part time #1's like PG13). Not to mention SIakam has the least help around him.

Can you sit here and name 15 players who have outperformed Siakam this year? Please? I have asked probably a dozen times now.

Edit: we also gonna ignore the fact PG13 was a legit MVP candidate in his prime for a year in OKC? lol

https://nbarankings.theringer.com/ has PG13 at 13, Siakam at 14, and Brown at 20. So yeah, I don't think Siakam being top 15 is a bad take

[HumbleRen]

Siakam is more in that Jaylen Brown, Paul George tier. Very good #2 options on contenders. Superstar and top 15? I don't think so. He's playing the role of #1 option on a middling team and roster.

At what point do we stop bringing this up ? My self included.

There's only truly like 5 REAL superstars. That doesn't mean the other 25 teams aren't trying to go for it.

Ja isn't near being top 5 player yet Memphis is arguably the favourite in the West.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Siakam is more in that Jaylen Brown, Paul George tier. Very good #2 options on contenders. Superstar and top 15? I don't think so. He's playing the role of #1 option on a middling team and roster.

At what point do we stop bringing this up ? My self included.

There's only truly like 5 REAL superstars. That doesn't mean the other 25 teams aren't trying to go for it.

Ja isn't near being top 5 player yet Memphis is arguably the favourite in the West.

Did you ever think that maybe we don't think Siakam is a superstar because of his style of play and the current era we are in? Is it maybe that he doesn't ""look" like a modern superstar, so we don't think of him as one?

[HumbleRen]

Siakam is more in that Jaylen Brown, Paul George tier. Very good #2 options on contenders. Superstar and top 15? I don't think so. He's playing the role of #1 option on a middling team and roster.

At what point do we stop bringing this up ? My self included.

There's only truly like 5 REAL superstars. That doesn't mean the other 25 teams aren't trying to go for it.

Ja isn't near being top 5 player yet Memphis is arguably the favourite in the West.

Did you ever think that maybe we don't think Siakam is a superstar because of his style of play and the current era we are in? Is it maybe that he doesn't ""look" like a modern superstar, so we don't think of him as one?

No. I think it's solely due to playoff pedigree.

People would talk about him in a different light if he had meaningful playoff series wins under his belt as the "guy".

[Johnny Bball]

Siakam is more in that Jaylen Brown, Paul George tier. Very good #2 options on contenders. Superstar and top 15? I don't think so. He's playing the role of #1 option on a middling team and roster.

IKt's almost like there are 30 teams.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

At what point do we stop bringing this up ? My self included.

There's only truly like 5 REAL superstars. That doesn't mean the other 25 teams aren't trying to go for it.

Ja isn't near being top 5 player yet Memphis is arguably the favourite in the West.

Did you ever think that maybe we don't think Siakam is a superstar because of his style of play and the current era we are in? Is it maybe that he doesn't ""look" like a modern superstar, so we don't think of him as one?

No. I think it's solely due to playoff pedigree.

People would talk about him in a different light if he had meaningful playoff series wins under his belt as the "guy".

That's fair, so he's really had 1 shot at that I would say if that's the main metric (I also think his role in contributing to a championship does need to be factored in). He had long covid in 2020 I believe so I wouldn't count that. We didn't make it in 2021, and then this year he played pretty well. Giannis took about three years to do anything as "the guy" in Milwaukee - getting to the conference finals against us.

So I'm not really seeing it, but open to hearing more.

[HumbleRen]

Did you ever think that maybe we don't think Siakam is a superstar because of his style of play and the current era we are in? Is it maybe that he doesn't ""look" like a modern superstar, so we don't think of him as one?

No. I think it's solely due to playoff pedigree.

People would talk about him in a different light if he had meaningful playoff series wins under his belt as the "guy".

That's fair, so he's really had 1 shot at that I would say if that's the main metric (I also think his role in contributing to a championship does need to be factored in). He had long covid in 2020 I believe so I wouldn't count that. We didn't make it in 2021, and then this year he played pretty well. Giannis took about three years to do anything as "the guy" in Milwaukee - getting to the conference finals against us.

So I'm not really seeing it, but open to hearing more.

I mean you had people saying Giannis was a 2nd option back in even 2018 despite winning a MVP.

The "he's not a closer" narrative was rampant with him. You earn your stardom in the playoffs, not regular season.

The last time people saw Siakam in a meaningful series was the Celtics series, which unfortantely we all know how that went. Whether that's fair or not to him.

[LoveMyRaps]

[anotherhomer]

There's little doubt pascal is a top 15 player....maybe even top 10 now

[LoveMyRaps]

Pascal Siakam in his last 4 games:

37.5 PTS
9.0 REB
6.7 AST
51.0 FG%
41.6 3P%