Fischer: Magic Could Emerge as Factor in Trade Market, Free Agency

[thelead]

Yup. Gut our team to have Paolo and Mitchell with no future picks? No thanks.

There was no way Utah was listening to any offer we made without giving up Franz either. People here are acting like we could have just had Mitchell with all our best young guys still here.

How so? Cleveland made a deal without giving up either of Garland or Mobley. They moved Sexton and role playing Lauri and not much else. We could have matched that, imo, without moving either of PB or Franz.

But again, we didn't know what we had in Paolo. Cavs knew what they had in Mobley and Garland.... and had an allstar in Allen to keep. Cavs gave up a starting quality role player (Lauri who has unexpectedly blown up), another decent role player (Sexton), their 2022 14th lotto pick (Agbaji), 2025 first-round pick, 2026 pick swap, 2027 first-round pick, 2028 pick swap, and their 2029 first-round pick.... It's easy to say 'we could beat that' but I'm not sure you would want to without first knowing how good Paolo was going to be and without having the rest of the starting lineup solidified. If you really consider a deal that would 'beat' it, let's take a look:

Suggs instead of Collin Sexton (Suggs is a better prospect with bigger question marks though)
WCJ instead of Lauri Markkanen (at the time, WCJ should have been viewed as more valuable)
Cole Anthony instead of Ochai Agbaji (not sure that would have been viewed as better but let's go with it )
2023 Chicago first-round pick instead of cavs 2025 first-round pick
2024 our first-round pick instead of cavs 2026 pick swap
2025 Denver first-round pick instead of cavs 2027 first-round pick
2026 pick swap instead of cavs 2028 pick swap
2027 our first-round pick instead of cavs 2029 first-round pick

Is that better? Sure but only because our picks would be way more valuable than a team that has Allen, Mobley, Garland and Mitchell.

Let's pretend Paolo struggles out of the gate, what's your rotation considering you have no picks for the next 5 years?

Bamba
Jabari Parker (again, let's pretend Paolo looks more like Jabari Parker than Paolo)
Franz
Mitchell
Fultz

You're screwed with that roster for the next 4 years unless you can make moves in free agency. I'm cool with not taking that gamble last summer. This upcoming summer should be different though. I expect moves to be made this summer.

[Knightro]

I thought Fultz and Isaac have no value on this board. Why is it to the Jazz? To get Mitchell with this? I honestly do not think so

Markkanen turning his career around unexpectedly and being really good for the Jazz is more of an added bonus than an expectation. I'm hard pressed to believe that Utah expected him to have a career year by a mile in Year 6.

He and Sexton were basically salary fillers with some upside because Mitchell made over $30M. The real return was the 3 unprotected 1sts and the 2 pick swaps.

[Bensational]

There was no way Utah was listening to any offer we made without giving up Franz either. People here are acting like we could have just had Mitchell with all our best young guys still here.

How so? Cleveland made a deal without giving up either of Garland or Mobley. They moved Sexton and role playing Lauri and not much else. We could have matched that, imo, without moving either of PB or Franz.

But again, we didn't know what we had in Paolo. Cavs knew what they had in Mobley and Garland.... and had an allstar in Allen to keep. Cavs gave up a starting quality role player (Lauri who has unexpectedly blown up), another decent role player (Sexton), their 2022 14th lotto pick (Agbaji), 2025 first-round pick, 2026 pick swap, 2027 first-round pick, 2028 pick swap, and their 2029 first-round pick.... It's easy to say 'we could beat that' but I'm not sure you would want to without first knowing how good Paolo was going to be and without having the rest of the starting lineup solidified. If you really consider a deal that would 'beat' it, let's take a look:

Suggs instead of Collin Sexton (Suggs is a better prospect with bigger question marks though)
WCJ instead of Lauri Markkanen (at the time, WCJ should have been viewed as more valuable)
Cole Anthony instead of Ochai Agbaji (not sure that would have been viewed as better but let's go with it )
2023 Chicago first-round pick instead of cavs 2025 first-round pick
2024 our first-round pick instead of cavs 2026 pick swap
2025 Denver first-round pick instead of cavs 2027 first-round pick
2026 pick swap instead of cavs 2028 pick swap
2027 our first-round pick instead of cavs 2029 first-round pick

Is that better? Sure but only because our picks would be way more valuable than a team that has Allen, Mobley, Garland and Mitchell.

Let's pretend Paolo struggles out of the gate, what's your rotation considering you have no picks for the next 5 years?

Bamba
Jabari Parker (again, let's pretend Paolo looks more like Jabari Parker than Paolo)
Franz
Mitchell
Fultz

You're screwed with that roster for the next 4 years unless you can make moves in free agency. I'm cool with not taking that gamble last summer. This upcoming summer should be different though. I expect moves to be made this summer.

I’m not making a case that we should’ve pursued the deal, just pushing back against the narrative that Cleveland offered a haul so big we couldn’t have competed. But we definitely could’ve beaten that deal.

I don’t see the point in imagining Mitchell with a version of this team that has had PB. You don’t build teams planning for/expecting the worst outcomes. I mean, what if Paolo is just the next Tyreke Evans who explodes as a rookie but never improved beyond that? We’re not entertaining that fear presently so why would we have done so back then?

The only reason I bring it up is because I see people turn their noses up at Trae as if we’re too good for a guy who carried his team to the conference finals just recently. A lot turned their noses up at Mitchell too. Probably the same ones who would’ve turned their noses up at Chris Paul. At the end of the day these guys make an impact and their teams perform much better than we do. They might not be winning championships, but they’re all in the class of players who help put a team in the conversation.

[PrimeThyme]

I'd like to follow the Cavs blueprint.

Bank two more lottery guys this offseason and look to trade futures like they did for a disgruntled star. The issue is I'm not seeing that impactful player on the horizon like Mitchell was last season. Beal, KAT, and Young to a lesser extent are absolute stay-aways for me. Embiid is really the only other potentially available guy I could see worth giving up that sort of value for in the next year and a half but it remains to be seen if that actually happens.

I'm not opposed to kicking the tires on Irving in free agency. I get all the off-the-court stuff, but being in a smaller market again with less media scrutiny and attention may be a good thing for his career.

[RookieStar]

Il be honest... il do the break the bank thing if only guys like Booker, Jaylen Brown, Ant and other tier SGs are available for trade..

[zaymon]

Il be honest... il do the break the bank thing if only guys like Booker, Jaylen Brown, Ant and other tier SGs are available for trade..

Booker and Brown would be great, especially Booker. I wonder if he becomes available.

[basketballRob]

I'd like to follow the Cavs blueprint.

Bank two more lottery guys this offseason and look to trade futures like they did for a disgruntled star. The issue is I'm not seeing that impactful player on the horizon like Mitchell was last season. Beal, KAT, and Young to a lesser extent are absolute stay-aways for me. Embiid is really the only other potentially available guy I could see worth giving up that sort of value for in the next year and a half but it remains to be seen if that actually happens.

I'm not opposed to kicking the tires on Irving in free agency. I get all the off-the-court stuff, but being in a smaller market again with less media scrutiny and attention may be a good thing for his career.

I think it'll go down as a great trade for Utah not Cleveland.

We have cap room. We don't need to send 3 young players and 5 draft picks for a player.




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[tiderulz]

I'd like to follow the Cavs blueprint.

Bank two more lottery guys this offseason and look to trade futures like they did for a disgruntled star. The issue is I'm not seeing that impactful player on the horizon like Mitchell was last season. Beal, KAT, and Young to a lesser extent are absolute stay-aways for me. Embiid is really the only other potentially available guy I could see worth giving up that sort of value for in the next year and a half but it remains to be seen if that actually happens.

I'm not opposed to kicking the tires on Irving in free agency. I get all the off-the-court stuff, but being in a smaller market again with less media scrutiny and attention may be a good thing for his career.

problem is 20+ other teams are doing the same thing.

and on the Irving thing, it could be that or it could be worse. He acts out even more because he is in a small market and wants more media attention

[tiderulz]

Il be honest... il do the break the bank thing if only guys like Booker, Jaylen Brown, Ant and other tier SGs are available for trade..

Booker and Brown would be great, especially Booker. I wonder if he becomes available.

he is THE franchise player for Phoenix. why would he become available?

[Skybox]

Brown would be amazing...only conceivable situation is that Tatum prefers Beal and WAS wants picks and prospects (of ours)...3-way

and I would never do that for BOS, but who knows?

[PrimeThyme]

problem is 20+ other teams are doing the same thing.

I think we have some of the most enticing assets In the league, and that's without Banchero/Wagner being factored into any deal. If a team is ready to blow it up, we could make as competitive an offer as almost anyone imo.

[Skin]

Small fixer-upper trades like Futlz & Bol... Or old favorite draft targets like the Tobias Harris story...

Some targets...
Devin Vassell
Quentin Grimes
Ochai Agbaji

But other than that, stick with the draft. Continue development.

#noskippingsteps #homegrowthis****!

[tooler]

I still see a lot of nearly-untradeable suggestions. No team is going to trade promising young wings unless we back up the truck full of draft picks.

[tiderulz]

problem is 20+ other teams are doing the same thing.

I think we have some of the most enticing assets In the league, and that's without Banchero/Wagner being factored into any deal. If a team is ready to blow it up, we could make as competitive an offer as almost anyone imo.

What are those enticing assets, other than our pick and Chicago's? and if we get a good player, our pick becomes worse

[tiderulz]

Small fixer-upper trades like Futlz & Bol... Or old favorite draft targets like the Tobias Harris story...

Some targets...
Devin Vassell
Quentin Grimes
Ochai Agbaji

But other than that, stick with the draft. Continue development.

#noskippingsteps #homegrowthis****!

I would think Utah would keep Ogbaji over say Beasley, since he was just drafted. Maybe not thought.

[RookieStar]

Il be honest... il do the break the bank thing if only guys like Booker, Jaylen Brown, Ant and other tier SGs are available for trade..

Booker and Brown would be great, especially Booker. I wonder if he becomes available.

he is THE franchise player for Phoenix. why would he become available?

The same way why we have topics wherein Luka and Trae are "supposedly" the next ones wanting out if they aren't competing for the trophy. I mean sure, bigger chance these are just clickbait titles to generate talking points by the league writers. However, it does give us a topic to talk about. lol

[zaymon]

Il be honest... il do the break the bank thing if only guys like Booker, Jaylen Brown, Ant and other tier SGs are available for trade..

Booker and Brown would be great, especially Booker. I wonder if he becomes available.

he is THE franchise player for Phoenix. why would he become available?

Not likely, especially after Sarver is gone, but you can always dream.