Wolves at Celtics

[Note30]

Why don't we let our 2 best scorers/backcourt take 20+ shots like other teams do. Somehow Tatum and brown always gets 20+ shots each. Same on Blazers with Lillard and Simons. Both dlo and Edwards should take the bulk of the shots when they're playing well.

Our offensive scheme isn't built for that kind of play despite Ant 100% being the player that would be better off taking 25+ shot attempts a night. Problem is that we also have a "big 4" and each one of those players demands the ball. That being said we have one of those guys that takes 20 shots a game out in KAT.

Finch had two options. 1.) Treat Ant like Kobe when Shaq was out and let him shoot 35 times a game. 2 ) Give those shots to some scrubs like Nowell or DLo.

We know which one he picked.

[Note30]

Ugh! We win three in a row, and it gets our whiners to stop whining. But lose two, to top teams with MVP candidates, and suddenly they think it’s time to post and post, preaching the end of the world. Fire Finch! Gobert kills us! The trade will set us back for years! Sometimes I wonder if the whiners hope for losses, so they can complain?

There are dozens of fan sites to make emotional, extreme takes. This is RealGM, and I guarantee you, no GM is spouting “end of the world” talk after two losses in December.

Because we are supposed to be destroying those teams.

There were so many expectations going into this season, things like we'd be a 60 win team, we'd coast into the playoffs, we'd be the best team since KG WCF run.

Now everytime we're disappointing were still getting over the fact that we traded almost every major asset we have and we're not better than last year, we might actually be worse.

So yeah we will be downers and pessimists because there was no impetus to go and do this specific trade. It was a stupid move that cost us the future and hasn't made us any better.

We have every right after 20 years of disappointments to be bitter and angry.

[shrink]

Before the season, we (and I include myself in this group), thought we’d have instant success adding a defensive stud in Gobert.

I realize now that Rudy is a very unique type of player, and so different from KAT, that it takes time for every player to adjust.

I don’t think any more that this trade assured instant success, but it’s a longterm move that adds talent for the next four years. We have time to learn to maximize that talent.

[minimus]

Why don't we let our 2 best scorers/backcourt take 20+ shots like other teams do. Somehow Tatum and brown always gets 20+ shots each. Same on Blazers with Lillard and Simons. Both dlo and Edwards should take the bulk of the shots when they're playing well.

Our offensive scheme isn't built for that kind of play despite Ant 100% being the player that would be better off taking 25+ shot attempts a night. Problem is that we also have a "big 4" and each one of those players demands the ball. That being said we have one of those guys that takes 20 shots a game out in KAT.

Finch had two options. 1.) Treat Ant like Kobe when Shaq was out and let him shoot 35 times a game. 2 ) Give those shots to some scrubs like Nowell or DLo.

We know which one he picked.

Shaq to Kobe era... Nowadays you need multiple scorers because of offensive explosion. Indeed 6th man strategy slowly transfroms into 7th/8th. For instance, BOS can afford White and Brogdon playing off the bench, once Williams and Horford are fully healthy.

[shrink]

To be honest, this complaining reminds me a lot about all the talk, two Decembers ago, about how Rosas also “ruined our future” by selecting Ant instead of LaMelo with the ultra-valuable first pick.

Look, the past is the past, and 20 years (mostly) of a lack of success may make people frustrated. But that’s the past. We can’t change it. We have new decision-makers and mostly new players that had no connection with those failings other than happen to work for an organization that is called the Timberwolves. GM’s particularly don’t live in the past, and they barely live in the present. GM’s focus should be on the future. And fans can focus on future lost picks if they want, but they should also focus on whether this iteration can work. I think even the most negative person on the trade can admit that it raises our ceiling, perhaps to championship levels if we have a lot of internal growth. Personally, I want to see if that happens.

[Note30]

Why don't we let our 2 best scorers/backcourt take 20+ shots like other teams do. Somehow Tatum and brown always gets 20+ shots each. Same on Blazers with Lillard and Simons. Both dlo and Edwards should take the bulk of the shots when they're playing well.

Our offensive scheme isn't built for that kind of play despite Ant 100% being the player that would be better off taking 25+ shot attempts a night. Problem is that we also have a "big 4" and each one of those players demands the ball. That being said we have one of those guys that takes 20 shots a game out in KAT.

Finch had two options. 1.) Treat Ant like Kobe when Shaq was out and let him shoot 35 times a game. 2 ) Give those shots to some scrubs like Nowell or DLo.

We know which one he picked.

Shaq to Kobe era... Nowadays you need multiple scorers because of offensive explosion. Indeed 6th man strategy slowly transfroms into 7th/8th. For instance, BOS can afford White and Brogdon playing off the bench, once Williams and Horford are fully healthy.

Tell that to Luka or Giannis.

Even Boston's primary scoring only comes from Tatum and Brown. Everyone else is supplementary.

We have that as well and so did the 01 Lakers. Nowadays we just score more points but ounce for ounce the structure is still similar.

[Note30]

To be honest, this complaining reminds me a lot about all the talk, two Decembers ago, about how Rosas also “ruined our future” by selecting Ant instead of LaMelo with the ultra-valuable first pick.

Look, the past is the past, and 20 years (mostly) of a lack of success may make people frustrated. But that’s the past. We can’t change it. We have new decision-makers and mostly new players that had no connection with those failings other than happen to work for an organization that is called the Timberwolves. GM’s particularly don’t live in the past, and they barely live in the present. GM’s focus should be on the future. And fans can focus on future lost picks if they want, but they should also focus on whether this iteration can work. I think even the most negative person on the trade can admit that it raises our ceiling, perhaps to championship levels if we have a lot of internal growth. Personally, I want to see if that happens.

This is nothing like 2 years ago.

The difference is that of Rosas had messed up which he didn't, we would have just blown it up and while frustrating there could have been a path forward.

Now we trade all of our valuable role players in Beas (who I wanted gone anyway), Bev, and Vando. In addition we threw away a Rudy light center in Kessler along with 5 picks. And that's the main point. Now even if we say KAT, DLo, Ant aren't the answer there's nothing we can do. Outside of trading KAT for role players and hoping to turn into a grit and grind team with Ant playing a Kobe role we are ****.

There is no way out. We've cornered ourselves and resigned ourselves to mediocrity because of an unproven bet.

Outside of trading KAT we won't be anymore able to have upward mobility. And that's still a huge maybe because KAT won't have that much value.

We may make the playoffs and still get a one round run in but we are so limited that outside of a miracle player or set of carefully vetted role player selection we are screwed.

[Note30]

Before the season, we (and I include myself in this group), thought we’d have instant success adding a defensive stud in Gobert.

I realize now that Rudy is a very unique type of player, and so different from KAT, that it takes time for every player to adjust.

I don’t think any more that this trade assured instant success, but it’s a longterm move that adds talent for the next four years. We have time to learn to maximize that talent.

Obviously it makes more sense to hope it works out but personally we've taken so many Ls that I don't know if that makes sense.

[minimus]

Our offensive scheme isn't built for that kind of play despite Ant 100% being the player that would be better off taking 25+ shot attempts a night. Problem is that we also have a "big 4" and each one of those players demands the ball. That being said we have one of those guys that takes 20 shots a game out in KAT.

Finch had two options. 1.) Treat Ant like Kobe when Shaq was out and let him shoot 35 times a game. 2 ) Give those shots to some scrubs like Nowell or DLo.

We know which one he picked.

Shaq to Kobe era... Nowadays you need multiple scorers because of offensive explosion. Indeed 6th man strategy slowly transfroms into 7th/8th. For instance, BOS can afford White and Brogdon playing off the bench, once Williams and Horford are fully healthy.

Tell that to Luka or Giannis.

Even Boston's primary scoring only comes from Tatum and Brown. Everyone else is supplementary.

We have that as well and so did the 01 Lakers. Nowadays we just score more points but ounce for ounce the structure is still similar.

Last year DAL had Luka, Brunson and Dinwidie three elite ISO scorers. Bringing was elite at the paint on this short jumpers/floaters, Dinwidie was elite at scoring 3pt in ISOs on left wing. I don't have stats right now, bit you can certainly find them. This year I wouldn't say that they are much better than us.

MIL has three NBA All Defense team defenders in Lopez, Giannis and Jrue. Plus 20 ppg scorer in Middleton.

Let me rephrase my point. You need multiple elite at something players nowadays to be successful. MIL did it with three elite defenders. GSW did it with two elite snipers. DAL is still an experiment.

I believe that are one player away from that. For instance, in my theory if we find an elite shooter at PG, we will be successful. Let say DLo continues to stay hot from distance. It will give us Towns-Ant-DLo offensive trio. Or if we find PoA defender, 3&D guy at PG, then we will have defensive trio in Rudy-MCD-??? Or let say we have pass-first PG, who can control tempo and take care of the ball. Then we will have trio of playmakers in Towns-Ant-???

[Note30]

Shaq to Kobe era... Nowadays you need multiple scorers because of offensive explosion. Indeed 6th man strategy slowly transfroms into 7th/8th. For instance, BOS can afford White and Brogdon playing off the bench, once Williams and Horford are fully healthy.

Tell that to Luka or Giannis.

Even Boston's primary scoring only comes from Tatum and Brown. Everyone else is supplementary.

We have that as well and so did the 01 Lakers. Nowadays we just score more points but ounce for ounce the structure is still similar.

Last year DAL had Luka, Brunson and Dinwidie three elite ISO scorers. Bringing was elite at the paint on this short jumpers/floaters, Dinwidie was elite at scoring 3pt in ISOs on left wing. I don't have stats right now, bit you can certainly find them. This year I wouldn't say that they are much better than us.

MIL has three NBA All Defense team defenders in Lopez, Giannis and Jrue. Plus 20 ppg scorer in Middleton.

Let me rephrase my point. You need multiple elite at something players nowadays to be successful. MIL did it with three elite defenders. GSW did it with two elite snipers. DAL is still an experiment.

I believe that are one player away from that. For instance, in my theory if we find an elite shooter at PG, we will be successful. Let say DLo continues to stay hot from distance. It will give us Towns-Ant-DLo offensive trio. Or if we find PoA defender, 3&D guy at PG, then we will have defensive trio in Rudy-MCD-??? Or let say we have pass-first PG, who can control tempo and take care of the ball. Then we will have trio of playmakers in Towns-Ant-???

Dinwiddie is elite?! Also Lopez All NBA Defense?! Shot blocking doesn't equal All-NBA. Dude don't just make stuff up.

We are not one elite player away unless that Elite player is Giannis.

DLo being hot from a distance is not something we can count on. He has been inconsistent throughout his tenure here, expecting that to change is foolish.

That idea that we need multiple good role players isn't new. That's what every championship team needs.

[minimus]

Also Lopez All NBA Defense?! Shot blocking doesn't equal All-NBA. Dude don't just make stuff up.

Lopez is All NBA Defense level defender.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Dinwiddie is elite?!

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=POSS*GE*3&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=1&sort=EFG_PCT

Spence attempts the 7th most ISOs in the NBA by the way

It is feature of DAL offense

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/isolation?SeasonYear=2022-23&dir=D&sort=POSS

Tell that to Luka or Giannis.

Even Boston's primary scoring only comes from Tatum and Brown. Everyone else is supplementary.

We have that as well and so did the 01 Lakers. Nowadays we just score more points but ounce for ounce the structure is still similar.

Last year DAL had Luka, Brunson and Dinwidie three elite ISO scorers. Bringing was elite at the paint on this short jumpers/floaters, Dinwidie was elite at scoring 3pt in ISOs on left wing. I don't have stats right now, bit you can certainly find them. This year I wouldn't say that they are much better than us.

MIL has three NBA All Defense team defenders in Lopez, Giannis and Jrue. Plus 20 ppg scorer in Middleton.

Let me rephrase my point. You need multiple elite at something players nowadays to be successful. MIL did it with three elite defenders. GSW did it with two elite snipers. DAL is still an experiment.

I believe that are one player away from that. For instance, in my theory if we find an elite shooter at PG, we will be successful. Let say DLo continues to stay hot from distance. It will give us Towns-Ant-DLo offensive trio. Or if we find PoA defender, 3&D guy at PG, then we will have defensive trio in Rudy-MCD-??? Or let say we have pass-first PG, who can control tempo and take care of the ball. Then we will have trio of playmakers in Towns-Ant-???

We are not one elite player away unless that Elite player is Giannis.

DLo being hot from a distance is not something we can count on. He has been inconsistent throughout his tenure here, expecting that to change is foolish.

That idea that we need multiple good role players isn't new. That's what every championship team needs.

We are down TP, Towns, JMac and Anderson. IMO the biggest problem right now is shooting (TP and Towns are huge factor here) and passing (Towns, JMac and Anderson are our best passers after DLo). Once we are fully healthy I truly believe that we are one elite at either shooting/passing or shooting/defending player away from success.

P.S. I cant find now many stats, but you can find it yourself.

[shrink]

I like the irony of the YouTube poster calling someone a genius, when he misspells genius.

[shangrila]

It's tough to tell exactly what this team is or could be, given how many injuries we've had. We are nowhere near deep enough to consistently miss several role players especially when they have crucial skillsets (Prince shooting, Anderson/JMac playmaking, KAT scoring). On top of that the team has been gelling now with a lot of those guys out so, again, how can we tell what the team really looks like when everyone is back?

[coolcono]

I like the irony of the YouTube poster calling someone a genius, when he misspells genius.

That was going to be my tip to getting views. Create an intelligence video on youtube, but misspell one word in the title. The purpose isn't to look smart, it is to get hits. And everybody looking at a youtube video about intelligence with a mispelled word in the title is going to view that video and correct it.

[Note30]

Also Lopez All NBA Defense?! Shot blocking doesn't equal All-NBA. Dude don't just make stuff up.

Lopez is All NBA Defense level defender.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Dinwiddie is elite?!

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=POSS*GE*3&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=1&sort=EFG_PCT

Spence attempts the 7th most ISOs in the NBA by the way

It is feature of DAL offense

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/isolation?SeasonYear=2022-23&dir=D&sort=POSS

Last year DAL had Luka, Brunson and Dinwidie three elite ISO scorers. Bringing was elite at the paint on this short jumpers/floaters, Dinwidie was elite at scoring 3pt in ISOs on left wing. I don't have stats right now, bit you can certainly find them. This year I wouldn't say that they are much better than us.

MIL has three NBA All Defense team defenders in Lopez, Giannis and Jrue. Plus 20 ppg scorer in Middleton.

Let me rephrase my point. You need multiple elite at something players nowadays to be successful. MIL did it with three elite defenders. GSW did it with two elite snipers. DAL is still an experiment.

I believe that are one player away from that. For instance, in my theory if we find an elite shooter at PG, we will be successful. Let say DLo continues to stay hot from distance. It will give us Towns-Ant-DLo offensive trio. Or if we find PoA defender, 3&D guy at PG, then we will have defensive trio in Rudy-MCD-??? Or let say we have pass-first PG, who can control tempo and take care of the ball. Then we will have trio of playmakers in Towns-Ant-???

We are not one elite player away unless that Elite player is Giannis.

DLo being hot from a distance is not something we can count on. He has been inconsistent throughout his tenure here, expecting that to change is foolish.

That idea that we need multiple good role players isn't new. That's what every championship team needs.

We are down TP, Towns, JMac and Anderson. IMO the biggest problem right now is shooting (TP and Towns are huge factor here) and passing (Towns, JMac and Anderson are our best passers after DLo). Once we are fully healthy I truly believe that we are one elite at either shooting/passing or shooting/defending player away from success.

P.S. I cant find now many stats, but you can find it yourself.

Our issue over the past 4-5 years has never really been offense. This is something that we've had thousands of discussions around.

Passing and shooting are down right now, no question. But our offense has been pretty passable in the league standard. Around 11th in the league

Our issue is and has been two things.

One. Defense. We acquired Gobert and Anderson and our defense is still ****. Gobert being the bigger name here. This dude was DPOY and here he looks like an average rim running center. Hell Kessler looks better than him some nights. 22nd overall defense is out issue.

Obviously we can't pin an entire defense around Gobert in the way of faulting him, but want to know a funny stat? Our defense is worse than last year. Want to know another funny stat? We're averaging 46.7 pts given up in the paint this year. We averaged 46.3 last year.

You would think a DPOY center who's whole job is rim protection and defensive gravity would do better than a -0.4 change.

We are not one player away from change on defense. We are a whole 3-4 players away. That's not changing easily.

Two) There's no real go to guy. Whether it be a PG or star guard we aren't ruled by one players offense and it's gross because we aren't the Spurs of old or the GSW. Passing isn't going to change things because we have no superstar to bail us out if we can't make their defense crumble through passing.

Ant could be that guy but he's not it yet.

[minimus]

Our issue over the past 4-5 years has never really been offense. This is something that we've had thousands of discussions around.
Passing and shooting are down right now, no question. But our offense has been pretty passable in the league standard. Around 11th in the league

Our issue is and has been two things.

One. Defense. We acquired Gobert and Anderson and our defense is still ****. Gobert being the bigger name here. This dude was DPOY and here he looks like an average rim running center. Hell Kessler looks better than him some nights. 22nd overall defense is out issue.

Obviously we can't pin an entire defense around Gobert in the way of faulting him, but want to know a funny stat? Our defense is worse than last year. Want to know another funny stat? We're averaging 46.7 pts given up in the paint this year. We averaged 46.3 last year.

You would think a DPOY center who's whole job is rim protection and defensive gravity would do better than a -0.4 change.

We are not one player away from change on defense. We are a whole 3-4 players away. That's not changing easily.

Two) There's no real go to guy. Whether it be a PG or star guard we aren't ruled by one players offense and it's gross because we aren't the Spurs of old or the GSW. Passing isn't going to change things because we have no superstar to bail us out if we can't make their defense crumble through passing.

Ant could be that guy but he's not it yet.

The problem with your approach is that in your opinion you need basically All-Star level starting five. But it is unrealistic. I will give you a few examples:

1) Jevon Carter who started for MIL in Middleton absence. MIL started this season strong. He is paid 2 mil.
2) Tyus Jones who started last season in Ja Morant absence last season, MEM finished 2nd in regular season. He is paid 15 mil.

It is possible to find a solution if you have good understanding what are the problem. We have currently following problems:

1) turnovers. We are 27th in turnovers. Turnovers is by far the biggest problem: because we have two slow in transition bigs, which means we will play 3 against 5 in broken play situation.
2) we are dead last in allowed 3pt attempts. We are good at defending the rim, so opponents try to outscore us from 3pt line. which leads to the next point.
3) 50/50 balls. Opponents try to shoot as many 3s as possible, which leads to many long rebounds.

IMO to make this roster work we need to resolve these issues. For instance, we are already good at scoring at rim (dont have stats right now, but I believe that we are top5-10), if we take care of the ball, we limit opponent fastbreak point and limit 3pt in transition. This is one adjustment where connection between offense and defense is evident. Personnel wise we could use Tyus/Tre Jones type of PG.

Another thing that we need a PoA defender from the bench. Because drop scheme requires seamless work of PoA defender and С stays that in the drop. I believe that a PoA defender will help to reduce pressure on our entire perimeter defense by containing and directing PoA. Personnel wise we could use Jevon Carter / Dennis Smith Jr. type of PoA defender.

[Domejandro]

Firstly, Brook Lopez is a phenomenal defensive player, I have him as a legitimate DPOY candidate.

That aside, Minnesota's biggest defensive issues pretty clearly stem from high turnover rate. Minnesota gets absolutely cooked in transition. Their halfcourt defense is actually pretty damn solid.

[Note30]

Firstly, Brook Lopez is a phenomenal defensive player, I have him as a legitimate DPOY candidate.

That aside, Minnesota's biggest defensive issues pretty clearly stem from high turnover rate. Minnesota gets absolutely cooked in transition. Their halfcourt defense is actually pretty damn solid.

Yeah I'm calling BS, unless something drastically changed from his time with the Lakers, which I'm sure I watched the entire season of. Pretty sure his defensive prowess is due to having Giannis and Jrue on the same team. He's not a bad positional defender calling him elite or DPOY is ludicrous. He may have changed but I doubt it.

Even in the Finals he was in, I don't remember him playing a ton of minutes or being more than an Andrew Bogut type player.

We give up 15.6 turnovers per game. It's a lot. But even if we reduced it to top 10 in the league we'd be at 13.7 turnovers per game.

If 2 turnovers is equal to about 3 points or given and a differential of about 3 pts a game in the worst case scenario, thats still far off from how much we are losing each game by.

On average we lose by 11.2 pts per game. We'd still lose by 5 if turnovers were completely cleaned up.Which given our passing abilities and this offensive scheme and personnel seem unlikely.

[minimus]

Firstly, Brook Lopez is a phenomenal defensive player, I have him as a legitimate DPOY candidate.

That aside, Minnesota's biggest defensive issues pretty clearly stem from high turnover rate. Minnesota gets absolutely cooked in transition. Their halfcourt defense is actually pretty damn solid.

Yeah I'm calling BS, unless something drastically changed from his time with the Lakers, which I'm sure I watched the entire season of. Pretty sure his defensive prowess is due to having Giannis and Jrue on the same team. He's not a bad positional defender calling him elite or DPOY is ludicrous. He may have changed but I doubt it.

Even in the Finals he was in, I don't remember him playing a ton of minutes or being more than an Andrew Bogut type player.

Sure, Lopez is an exceptional defender in MIL defensive scheme. Just like Dray Green is an elite defender in GSW defensive scheme, or Gobert was anchor of UTA defense two seasons ago.

We give up 15.6 turnovers per game. It's a lot. But even if we reduced it to top 10 in the league we'd be at 13.7 turnovers per game.

If 2 turnovers is equal to about 3 points or given and a differential of about 3 pts a game in the worst case scenario, thats still far off from how much we are losing each game by.

On average we lose by 11.2 pts per game. We'd still lose by 5 if turnovers were completely cleaned up.Which given our passing abilities and this offensive scheme and personnel seem unlikely.

Well, I don't know if you noticed but the problem is execution in 3rd quarter. It happens usually this way:

1) Ant/DLo dumb turnover or Gobert/Towns moving screen (minus 2-3 pts for us)

2) Opponent with high probability scores in transition (plus 2-3 pts for opponent)

Repeat this couple of time and you get easily 10-12 pts of score difference. So your math is not flawless. Also such game changing moment completely break momentum for us which leads to heavy ISO, hero ball.

So it not only the number of turnovers it is also when it happens and how it happens.

[Folklore]

Before the season, we (and I include myself in this group), thought we’d have instant success adding a defensive stud in Gobert.

I realize now that Rudy is a very unique type of player, and so different from KAT, that it takes time for every player to adjust.

I don’t think any more that this trade assured instant success, but it’s a longterm move that adds talent for the next four years. We have time to learn to maximize that talent.

"a longterm move that adds talent" how?