Game 33 Portland vs Denver 6:00pm Root,Root+

[GEE]

In Cronin, I Trust! I still firmly believe all within the Blazers organization want the Dame/Simons pairing to work, and it still may, but it is the finest of needles to thread and it's not looking very promising. Dame is clearly trying very hard to change the way he plays the game under Chauncey, but Dame is a shooting guard in a PGs body. So is Simons for that matter and CJ was too. Chauncey needs a PG, someone who will make the players around him better, and be willing to sacrifice individual accolades if necessary, for the sake of winning. Steve Nash and CP3 are great examples of players that could score 30 points per game fairly easily, but for the sake of winning, would net triple doubles instead. PG's preferred stat lines are far different than that of a SG. High assists with low turnovers FIRST, scoring when needed, but always being an extension of the coach on the floor making the other players better, the priority.

By the way, Are the Pels still in 1st place? I saw that that looser CJ McCollum had 40 / 8 / 9 & 2 the other night and was getting mentioned as a potential All-Star this year. Amazing! Difference there is he has Ingram who's a 6'9 SG next to him and a guy named ZION. My prediction is that Dame will be the single remaining move that "Blows up" this team's roster and puts us in serious playoff contention with the haul we get, but I'm being told that can't happen until the off-season. A trade like Dame for Simmons (a PG in a forwards body) WOULD make us a much better TEAM... for instance.

IMHO, this would be a much better team, and I think Cronin can and might do even better.

PG Simons / GP2 / Keon
SG Hart / Sharpe
SF Grant / Little / GB3
PF Simmons / Walker / ???
C Nurkic / Eubanks / ???

If we can acquire Mark Williams and Oscar Tshiebwe to fill those ???, Rebuild complete!

Dear god stop.

NO is playing well for the most part despite CJ who is posting horrible numbers across the board and only had that 40 point game with Zion and BI out - allowing him to handle the ball with Luka like usage.

Dame is the heart and soul of this team and miles better than our #2. Simons is a glorified Gary Trent JR and is 100% the guy we should move if a big trade comes along.

Your man-love for Dame is always on full display, and that's cool. But like it was with CJ, I think both players can be seen as good, but are just a poor pairing. But some, just like with CJ, prefer to harshly and often unfairly judge the other guy, while giving their guy a free pass and seemingly never place any blame on their favorite player for the lack of team success, even if said player has a stinker, which even the best occasionally have. Point being... It's never, and in no way Dame's fault if we lose a game.

I stated right at the top, that I think the whole organization wants, and are trying like hell to make it work with both Dame AND Simons, but we're almost a third of the way through this season now, and it has yet to blossom. There's still some time for this to get figured out, but I think eventually one of the two WILL get traded. Big question is, which one?

In time, We'll see who's right.

[Case2012]

The problem is coaching, not Dame.

[Dame Lizard]

In Cronin, I Trust! I still firmly believe all within the Blazers organization want the Dame/Simons pairing to work, and it still may, but it is the finest of needles to thread and it's not looking very promising. Dame is clearly trying very hard to change the way he plays the game under Chauncey, but Dame is a shooting guard in a PGs body. So is Simons for that matter and CJ was too. Chauncey needs a PG, someone who will make the players around him better, and be willing to sacrifice individual accolades if necessary, for the sake of winning. Steve Nash and CP3 are great examples of players that could score 30 points per game fairly easily, but for the sake of winning, would net triple doubles instead. PG's preferred stat lines are far different than that of a SG. High assists with low turnovers FIRST, scoring when needed, but always being an extension of the coach on the floor making the other players better, the priority.

By the way, Are the Pels still in 1st place? I saw that that looser CJ McCollum had 40 / 8 / 9 & 2 the other night and was getting mentioned as a potential All-Star this year. Amazing! Difference there is he has Ingram who's a 6'9 SG next to him and a guy named ZION. My prediction is that Dame will be the single remaining move that "Blows up" this team's roster and puts us in serious playoff contention with the haul we get, but I'm being told that can't happen until the off-season. A trade like Dame for Simmons (a PG in a forwards body) WOULD make us a much better TEAM... for instance.

IMHO, this would be a much better team, and I think Cronin can and might do even better.

PG Simons / GP2 / Keon
SG Hart / Sharpe
SF Grant / Little / GB3
PF Simmons / Walker / ???
C Nurkic / Eubanks / ???

If we can acquire Mark Williams and Oscar Tshiebwe to fill those ???, Rebuild complete!

Tbh CJ is having a rough year. He was great for the Pels last year, but this year he's been struggling. Definitely not in the All Star conversation currently.

[DaVoiceMaster]

Simons is who I would look to move, not Lillard. I would love to do a deal with Toronto for either Anunoby or Siakam. Is there a way to make that happen without gutting the team?

[Moonbeam]

In Cronin, I Trust! I still firmly believe all within the Blazers organization want the Dame/Simons pairing to work, and it still may, but it is the finest of needles to thread and it's not looking very promising. Dame is clearly trying very hard to change the way he plays the game under Chauncey, but Dame is a shooting guard in a PGs body. So is Simons for that matter and CJ was too. Chauncey needs a PG, someone who will make the players around him better, and be willing to sacrifice individual accolades if necessary, for the sake of winning. Steve Nash and CP3 are great examples of players that could score 30 points per game fairly easily, but for the sake of winning, would net triple doubles instead. PG's preferred stat lines are far different than that of a SG. High assists with low turnovers FIRST, scoring when needed, but always being an extension of the coach on the floor making the other players better, the priority.

By the way, Are the Pels still in 1st place? I saw that that looser CJ McCollum had 40 / 8 / 9 & 2 the other night and was getting mentioned as a potential All-Star this year. Amazing! Difference there is he has Ingram who's a 6'9 SG next to him and a guy named ZION. My prediction is that Dame will be the single remaining move that "Blows up" this team's roster and puts us in serious playoff contention with the haul we get, but I'm being told that can't happen until the off-season. A trade like Dame for Simmons (a PG in a forwards body) WOULD make us a much better TEAM... for instance.

IMHO, this would be a much better team, and I think Cronin can and might do even better.

PG Simons / GP2 / Keon
SG Hart / Sharpe
SF Grant / Little / GB3
PF Simmons / Walker / ???
C Nurkic / Eubanks / ???

If we can acquire Mark Williams and Oscar Tshiebwe to fill those ???, Rebuild complete!

I understand that some people wish to move on from Dame. That's fair enough. But implying that the team would be better off without him (particularly when the return is Ben Simmons) is misguided, IMO.

Lillard is far and away the best player on the team, and not just for the counting stats he puts up. Looking at lineup data this year, Portland plays at a +6.2 per 100 possession rate with Dame on the court, and a -5.0 with him off the court for a raw On-Off of +11.2. The only player with considerable minutes who has comparable On/Off stats is Josh Hart, with a +4.5 while on, a -8.2 off, and a +12.7 difference.

Lillard has a long history now of significant positive impact, so it's not an anomaly. He's at a +7.3 On/Off for his career, with +9.5, +13.7, +8.7, +6.6, and +10.1 in the most recent 5 seasons.

Based on On/Off data at least, it's Grant (+1.2), Simons (+0.4), and Nurk (+0.0) who aren't really contributing much as measured this way. Nurk is usually a lot better by this metric, but Grant and Simons are near 0 for their careers.

That's not to say that putting all of our eggs in the +/- basket is a good idea, and I strongly oppose that. Trading away Lillard is a strategy you can push for, but I think if that was done, the team would also be looking to ship off Grant, Nurkic, and Winslow at the very least as well and try to push toward the top of the lottery. Shipping off Dame alone in hopes of improving the team in 2022-23 is a folly, unless the return is something like Jayson Tatum.

[Moonbeam]

Simons is who I would look to move, not Lillard. I would love to do a deal with Toronto for either Anunoby or Siakam. Is there a way to make that happen without gutting the team?

I'm not quite ready to deal Simons yet as I think he's still got plenty of room to improve, but he and Nurk are definitely the guys I would look to trade most this season if I wanted to make a move.

[BlazersBroncos]

In Cronin, I Trust! I still firmly believe all within the Blazers organization want the Dame/Simons pairing to work, and it still may, but it is the finest of needles to thread and it's not looking very promising. Dame is clearly trying very hard to change the way he plays the game under Chauncey, but Dame is a shooting guard in a PGs body. So is Simons for that matter and CJ was too. Chauncey needs a PG, someone who will make the players around him better, and be willing to sacrifice individual accolades if necessary, for the sake of winning. Steve Nash and CP3 are great examples of players that could score 30 points per game fairly easily, but for the sake of winning, would net triple doubles instead. PG's preferred stat lines are far different than that of a SG. High assists with low turnovers FIRST, scoring when needed, but always being an extension of the coach on the floor making the other players better, the priority.

By the way, Are the Pels still in 1st place? I saw that that looser CJ McCollum had 40 / 8 / 9 & 2 the other night and was getting mentioned as a potential All-Star this year. Amazing! Difference there is he has Ingram who's a 6'9 SG next to him and a guy named ZION. My prediction is that Dame will be the single remaining move that "Blows up" this team's roster and puts us in serious playoff contention with the haul we get, but I'm being told that can't happen until the off-season. A trade like Dame for Simmons (a PG in a forwards body) WOULD make us a much better TEAM... for instance.

IMHO, this would be a much better team, and I think Cronin can and might do even better.

PG Simons / GP2 / Keon
SG Hart / Sharpe
SF Grant / Little / GB3
PF Simmons / Walker / ???
C Nurkic / Eubanks / ???

If we can acquire Mark Williams and Oscar Tshiebwe to fill those ???, Rebuild complete!

I understand that some people wish to move on from Dame. That's fair enough. But implying that the team would be better off without him (particularly when the return is Ben Simmons) is misguided, IMO.

Lillard is far and away the best player on the team, and not just for the counting stats he puts up. Looking at lineup data this year, Portland plays at a +6.2 per 100 possession rate with Dame on the court, and a -5.0 with him off the court for a raw On-Off of +11.2. The only player with considerable minutes who has comparable On/Off stats is Josh Hart, with a +4.5 while on, a -8.2 off, and a +12.7 difference.

Lillard has a long history now of significant positive impact, so it's not an anomaly. He's at a +7.3 On/Off for his career, with +9.5, +13.7, +8.7, +6.6, and +10.1 in the most recent 5 seasons.

Based on On/Off data at least, it's Grant (+1.2), Simons (+0.4), and Nurk (+0.0) who aren't really contributing much as measured this way. Nurk is usually a lot better by this metric, but Grant and Simons are near 0 for their careers.

That's not to say that putting all of our eggs in the +/- basket is a good idea, and I strongly oppose that. Trading away Lillard is a strategy you can push for, but I think if that was done, the team would also be looking to ship off Grant, Nurkic, and Winslow at the very least as well and try to push toward the top of the lottery. Shipping off Dame alone in hopes of improving the team in 2022-23 is a folly, unless the return is something like Jayson Tatum.

I logged in to post nearly this exact info - its not a man love I have for Dame, its that all of the most objective measurables available he is head and shoulders better than anyone else on this team. Moving him with the hopes of creating some sort of roster balance that puts us in a spot to be a better team is bananas. If you move him, its for a better player (Not happening) or a gaggle of picks while enacting the basketball equivalent of burning Rome down - a complete overhaul.

Simons should be moved if we can find a trade that makes sense. I just dont see it. He is an amazing if arguably streaky 3PT shooter who gives tremendous volume. Its a great, valuable skill in this league. Arguably the most valuable. But his skills otherwise are tremendously lacking. He gets bullied on both sides of the court, often fading on offense when a guy is being physical with him. On the other end, its less that he gets intimidated but more that he cant handle contact and gets bullied. He tries, but he is just not big enough to take contact and he isnt feisty enough to make up for not being big. I think he is a NBA starter, but I dont think he is a #2 on a team trying to go deep in the PO's - and based on usage its clear that when Dame came back it was more Grant than Ant that saw a decline in touches - I am highly convinced that should be the other way. Ant with the ball in his hands is mediocre, mediocre things happen - Ant moving off screens, taking 3's on a sidestep or screen, playing off ball - that is a elite 4th starter of mediocre 3rd. But we dont use him in that role. This FO saw him as a 2nd option and there isnt a chance in hell a team gets deep in the playoffs with him as the #2. Its not just his warts skill wise, I just dont trust the kid. I still think he can be bullied out of the game, or out of his own headspace. I still think he shies away from contact, on both sides. I still think he can disappear far much for a guy you want as a #2 option.

If we were rebuilding or not trying to maximize the window of our current superstar, I would say 'sure, cross your fingers, spoon feed him the ball and give him tons of usage because if he can develop in these areas with his already amazing shot you have a legit #2 option in a few years' - but reality isnt allowing us to be in that spot, and even if we were I would be the under on him reaching any sort of development goal that shows serious improvement outside shooting even better (Which I actually can see). But the kid isnt it right now if we want to win with Dame, and if we can flip him and some picks for anything that we think moves the needle a bit we should, regardless of said players age.