NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

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Who is your current NBA MVP? (listed alphabetically)

Giannis Antetokounmpo
51
13%
Luka Doncic
70
18%
Kevin Durant
19
5%
Joel Embiid
25
6%
Nikola Jokic
167
42%
Donovan Mitchell
2
1%
Ja Morant
2
1%
Jayson Tatum
48
12%
Zion Williamson
5
1%
Other (Booker, Curry, Davis, SGA, etc.)
8
2%
 
Total votes: 397

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#161 » by Peregrine01 » Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:36 pm

slick_watts wrote:jokic is criminally underappreciated. the team is like, 19pp100 better offensively when he's on the court lol. the nuggets are beating teams by 10pp100 when he's in and losing by 13pp100 when he's on the bench. jokic has no control over the latter.

he's taken the lead over everyone else in most impact metrics. he's the best player in the league.


Jokic, like all star players, is ultimately going to be measured by team success. Unfortunately his team isn't really all that good. Nuggets are really stuck in the mud with the Murray and MPJ contracts.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#162 » by kuclas » Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:36 pm

BelgradeNugget wrote:
kuclas wrote:
BelgradeNugget wrote:Giannis didn't win his 3rd strait because Jokic was more deserving that year and won 90% of 1st place votes. It was only question should it be unanimous or not. That is the simple fact.
If anyone deserve it more than Jokic this year he should win it.
BTW, LeBron didn't win his 3rd in 2011 because he didn't deserve it. Rose did.


Rose didn’t deserve the 2010-2011 season mvp. In a way with the way the nba has sped up games to allow more scoring

What rose did in 2010 season is equivalent to what Tatum is doing in this current 2022 season. So Tatum should win over Jokic by a landslide using your criteria.

Lebron was the far better player than rose in 2010. Voters didn’t want to give him a 3rd straight mvp. Lebron better shooting percentage. Same 3 point field goals. Better efficiency. More points. More rebounds. Same assists. Lebron was simply greater in 2010 season than rose.

Jokic has to get the nuggets to 62 plus wins to be in consideration.

Or else I think Giannis if the bucks gets 57 wins will get mvp. For some reason. I don’t think Tatum has any shot of mvp even if Boston wins 65 games.


LeBron's 2010-2011 season was embarrassing underachievement. He started the year on Miami introduction with famous not 1, not 2, not 3, but...sitting next to arguably top 5 player Dwyane Wade, and top 20 player Chris Bosh. If you join (create) super-team expectations are super-high. The year before with Cleveland Cavaliers he won 61 games. In 2010-2011 he won 58 games, Heat was 2nd in East after Chicago Bulls. Bulls won 41 games in 2009-10, and made jump to 62 wins in 2010-11, led by Derrick Rose.
So to simplify for MVP people measure what you achieved, relative to expectations.

Edit: I agree that Nuggets have to have the best record in the NBA (not sure about number) to win it.


That’s really my point. Jokic would have to win and win big like 62 games to even get a third straight mvp.

It will go to Giannis or even Tatum before it goes to jokic for the 3rd time in a row.

KD there is too much drama and he won’t get it

Embiid would get some consideration but he misses too many games. Only way embiid wins is if the sixers get to 57-58 wins and embiid plays 68 games and that’s doubtful considering he’s missed 8 games already.

So it comes down to Giannis or Tatum. And the answer is easy. It’s Giannis. It’s lot just the seeding. Denver can be 1 seed with 55/57 wins and that won’t get it done. It’s the overall record Vs expectations for a 3rd straight mvp. 62 wins will get Jokic the mvp. I just don’t think that will happen.

Giannis will win it with 55-57 wins.

Tatum only wins it with 67-68 wins. That’s very hard to achieve.

Those are just my opinions.

Nba mvp are just about narratives. Do we really Believe Karl Malone was better than Jordan when he got those mvp. Nope.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#163 » by Infinite Llamas » Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:39 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
moderndarwin wrote:The Joker love fest in here is surprising. He’s a great player but flawed. His defense as a big is a true liability. And his offense is good but it’s obviously not translating to chips. He’s had plenty of good talent on his team and hasn’t been able to get them past Steph and Dubs. 3 time mvp that hasn’t won a ring that would have to unprecedented (and lame).


He’s had Plenty of good talent on his teams to win a championship? He’s yet to play with an all star in his career. Jokic with no all stars should be expected to get by one of the most dominant dynasties?

We have definitely reached the point where we have lost the plot. Again this is a thread for the 2022-2023 regular season MVP…


He played with former all stars Millsap and Cousins /green font
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#164 » by cam24thomas » Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:40 pm

I think Brooklyn will finish WAY ahead of Boston/Milwaukee (both struggling at 5-5 in last 10) in the standings, so KD has a HUGE chance of MVP.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#165 » by Manimal » Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:41 pm

moderndarwin wrote:The Joker love fest in here is surprising. He’s a great player but flawed. His defense as a big is a true liability. And his offense is good but it’s obviously not translating to chips. He’s had plenty of good talent on his team and hasn’t been able to get them past Steph and Dubs. 3 time mvp that hasn’t won a ring that would have to unprecedented (and lame).


The past two post seasons he lost to the eventual Champs and the team that lost in the finals. Plus his two best teammates were out and he had a backcourt of Monte Morris, Facu Campazzo, and Austin Rivers. The rosters surrounding him would've been fighting for the #1 pick without him, not a championship.

The last season he had a decent team around him, he lost to the eventual Champs in the WCF in only his second postseason.

The team is getting healthy again, and he unsurprisingly has them with the #1 record in the West right now. And while the talent around him is much improved from running with Morris, Rivers, and Barton as starters...he still doesn't have a true second star next to him. He might not even need another all-star with him to win a championship...but I guarantee if he had the supporting cast of pretty much any other top guy (Giannis, Steph, Tatum, Embiid, etc), he'd probably have won one or more already.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#166 » by Sedale Threatt » Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:42 pm

moderndarwin wrote:The Joker love fest in here is surprising. He’s a great player but flawed. His defense as a big is a true liability. And his offense is good but it’s obviously not translating to chips. He’s had plenty of good talent on his team and hasn’t been able to get them past Steph and Dubs. 3 time mvp that hasn’t won a ring that would have to unprecedented (and lame).


Such as?
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#167 » by Infinite Llamas » Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:45 pm

I just think people can’t wrap their heads around the fact that a 7 foot dude that can’t jump over a newspaper is dominating the league right now…so excuses are made to try and diminish his impact but three years is a significant sample size at this point.

I don’t solely judge players on rings. I judge players more for what they do with what they have. This is why I rank Hakeem so highly. What we are seeing with Jokic is one of the greatest peak stretches of dominance and many will still try and discredit it.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#168 » by _NoMas » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:17 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
moderndarwin wrote:The Joker love fest in here is surprising. He’s a great player but flawed. His defense as a big is a true liability. And his offense is good but it’s obviously not translating to chips. He’s had plenty of good talent on his team and hasn’t been able to get them past Steph and Dubs. 3 time mvp that hasn’t won a ring that would have to unprecedented (and lame).


Such as?


I’m eagerly awaiting this too. Is it Facu Campazzo or Monte Morris? maybe it’s Will Barton, who knows
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#169 » by MoMan24 » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:20 pm

_NoMas wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
moderndarwin wrote:The Joker love fest in here is surprising. He’s a great player but flawed. His defense as a big is a true liability. And his offense is good but it’s obviously not translating to chips. He’s had plenty of good talent on his team and hasn’t been able to get them past Steph and Dubs. 3 time mvp that hasn’t won a ring that would have to unprecedented (and lame).


Such as?


I’m eagerly awaiting this too. Is it Facu Campazzo or Monte Morris? maybe it’s Will Barton, who knows

I'm also patiently waiting for this good talent he had that should have beat the defending Champs.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#170 » by Cubbies2120 » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:23 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
Mick Dundee wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
If offensive brilliance is what we were looking for Nash should have won a third MVP.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk


Come on Dude ...

30/14/10 ...

When did Nash ever put up a Statline like that?

That's just Crazy-Ass Numbers ...

Yeah I know it's the last 10 Games Avg, but Jokic played with a minor wrist injury before that.

And he's not showing any signs of slowing down.

Most to the contrary ... The crazyness gains volume every other day ...

And no End in Sight.

How is anyone MVP Candidate supposed to compete with that at this very point in time?
I'm just, saying, Nash was strongly in the running for a 3rd MVP if I recall. Not saying Nash was better than Jokic.

Nash and the Suns changed the NBA. At the time he was the NBA's best offensive engine.

A whole offense unto itself.

He revolutionized the game, and laid the foundation for 3 point avalanche the NBA is experiencing now.

He also made Amare and the Matrix into all stars. They greatly benefited from his passing, PNR and lobs.

Jokic as good as he is in elevating his teammates hasn't been able to make Murray and MPJ into all stars.



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MPJ missed his first full season, and in 2021 played 26 games of 36 before all star game (you guessed it, injuries), 2022 played < 10 games (you guessed it, injuries). Murray missed last 1.5 seasons…

Look at the massive outlier in Gordon’s shooting percentage- he was a career ~45% shooter having one season above 47%…he’s at 61% this year.

Now, go watch Gordon and Jokic’s 2 man game. Go watch Jokic post up, and Gordon dig his way into paint and pin his man, and watch Jokic make the incredible read and pass for Gordon to score his layup/dunk.

But you won’t watch that; you’d rather complain here and we love you for it :lol:
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#171 » by Cubbies2120 » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:25 pm

Does anyone else here find it funny that the guy asking for poll reset after a good game by Embiid now got his wish and the poll is even more one sided? :lol:
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#172 » by baksuzz » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:36 pm

if he ends up averaging triple double stats while shooting 60% fg, leading the NBA in PER, and denver being top2 in the west i think there is no chance he doesnt win. Just ridiculous numbers
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#173 » by CobraCommander » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:46 pm

Jokic 1st Jokic 2nd and Tatum 3rd..... Giannis and Luka are great but Tatum winning more games and Jokic is winning more games AND is better than anyone else...


At this point the question is simply will the writers allow Jokic to join the 3 peat club and once he wins a ring or two is he top 10 or top 20....

This isn’t a knock on Giannis or Luka but damn man - Jokic is just better than them....
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#174 » by Cubbies2120 » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:48 pm

MVP Candidates win % in games they played:

Tatum 23-9 (71.9%)
Jokic 20-9 (69.0%)
Giannis 18-10 (64.3%)
Durant 20-12 (62.5%)
Embiid 15-9 (62.5%)
Luka 18-13 (58.1%)
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#175 » by CobraCommander » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:49 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:Does anyone else here find it funny that the guy asking for poll reset after a good game by Embiid now got his wish and the poll is even more one sided? :lol:

Jokic is making a joke out of the mvp....best player on best team in conf ..... plus BEST player on planet - We just want someone to make it competitive and so far it isn’t....we knew it would be a foreign born player...we just needed to figure out which one and we now know...
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#176 » by mademan » Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:59 pm

It's getting hard not to have Jokic leading the MVP race at this point. Putting together another absolute bonkers of a season (29/11/9 on 69 TS%). Dude is making a mockery out of basketball. Crazy volume, ridiculous efficiency while also being arguably the best passer in basketball. And oh ya, 1st seed in the West.

If the season ended today, how tf isnt Jokic?
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#177 » by CobraCommander » Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:02 pm

Infinite Llamas wrote:I just think people can’t wrap their heads around the fact that a 7 foot dude that can’t jump over a newspaper is dominating the league right now…so excuses are made to try and diminish his impact but three years is a significant sample size at this point.

I don’t solely judge players on rings. I judge players more for what they do with what they have. This is why I rank Hakeem so highly. What we are seeing with Jokic is one of the greatest peak stretches of dominance and many will still try and discredit it.

We just don’t think great basketball player and have Jokic pop in our head....you think 6’6” Marcellus Wallace...
Plus espn praying it’s Giannis, ja, Tatum, Curry, Zion or Luka because the general public expects someone that looks or moves like them and they fit the narrative that “nba players are the best athletes on earth”.....


.but what happens if the best nba player isn’t athletic lol? Now this whole narrative built around basketball being about “air and flying and a whole bunch of bravado and showmanship” is in danger....

Jokic is the marketing departments nightmare and Stephen a smith, wilbon and a bunch of voters are gonna be looking for a reason FOR Tatum or Luka or Giannis instead of accepting the fact again..for the 3rd time...in a row....that Giannis is an alllll tiiimmmmeee great....
one of the best we have ever seen
and MVPs
and a ring
and all the gifts on earth
plus work ethic,
right attitude,
amazing athletic ability,
works hard on both ends,
true champion on and off court
and a heart warming underdog back story of poverty to champion..
.Giannis is the total package and getting better year over year and......Jokic IS BETTER and improving faster...
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 

Post#178 » by CobraCommander » Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:16 pm

This is why ESPN and the nba media are WOrSE than REALGM general board

This is on the front page of the nba page on ESPN.... top story

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35318632/kevin-durant-having-another-mvp-type-season-nets

There is a story about dirks statue with a picture and a story about harden going back to Houston...again with a picture...and a story about Jokic and his 83rd triple double and no picture...just a link

While Jokic is pulling a Prime Michael Jeffery Jordan or Lebron Raymond James on a regular basis....

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jokic-last-10-game-logs


Also anyone on this board that voted for Giannis or Luka or Tatum or anyone else in this poll are just being contrarian at this point...advanced stat, eye test and winning got Jokic lapping the field and we know it cause people keep posting the facts
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#179 » by CobraCommander » Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:17 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:
slick_watts wrote:jokic is criminally underappreciated. the team is like, 19pp100 better offensively when he's on the court lol. the nuggets are beating teams by 10pp100 when he's in and losing by 13pp100 when he's on the bench. jokic has no control over the latter.

he's taken the lead over everyone else in most impact metrics. he's the best player in the league.


Jokic, like all star players, is ultimately going to be measured by team success. Unfortunately his team isn't really all that good. Nuggets are really stuck in the mud with the Murray and MPJ contracts.

He is leading the west ....1st place€
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2) 

Post#180 » by Dirk » Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:29 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:MVP Candidates win % in games they played:

Tatum 23-9 (71.9%)
Jokic 20-9 (69.0%)
Giannis 18-10 (64.3%)
Durant 20-12 (62.5%)
Embiid 15-9 (62.5%)
Luka 18-13 (58.1%)


What's the team win % in games they haven't played.

I just want to make you work. :meditate:

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