NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[Texas Chuck]

You’ll really die on this hill, huh? Everyone here watches games and everyone here doesn’t think he’s MVP worthy yet you’ll keep insisting he’s the MVP favorite. JFC

Everyone here does not agree he's not MVP worthy. And you may have missed this, but he has finished 2nd in b2b years so its not like this is new from him. Embiid is a great player, absolutely an MVP level player.

He's not my frontrunner, Tatum, Jokic, and Giannis are my top 3, but I absolutely think he belongs in any serious MVP consideration.

What has Giannis done to be in top 3? Bucks really have great record, but are 3:1 without him too.

Well he's one of the best offensive players in the league.
And one of the best defensive players in the league.
And almost certainly the very best transition player in the league.
His individual numbers are incredible.
His team is very good.

I'm confused why you think he is not a candidate? What kind of resume do you think MVP's have? What does he lack? Because if your case is his team went 3-1 without him, you do not have a case.

[Bob8]

Everyone here does not agree he's not MVP worthy. And you may have missed this, but he has finished 2nd in b2b years so its not like this is new from him. Embiid is a great player, absolutely an MVP level player.

He's not my frontrunner, Tatum, Jokic, and Giannis are my top 3, but I absolutely think he belongs in any serious MVP consideration.

What has Giannis done to be in top 3? Bucks really have great record, but are 3:1 without him too.

Well he's one of the best offensive players in the league.
And one of the best defensive players in the league.
And almost certainly the very best transition player in the league.
His individual numbers are incredible.
His team is very good.

I'm confused why you think he is not a candidate? What kind of resume do you think MVP's have? What does he lack? Because if your case is his team went 3-1 without him, you do not have a case.

Not top 3 candidate. His stats are down in everything except points this year, while some other candidates have incredible numbers. Tell me, which player has got MVP because of his defensive skills since 2010?

[Texas Chuck]

What has Giannis done to be in top 3? Bucks really have great record, but are 3:1 without him too.

Well he's one of the best offensive players in the league.
And one of the best defensive players in the league.
And almost certainly the very best transition player in the league.
His individual numbers are incredible.
His team is very good.

I'm confused why you think he is not a candidate? What kind of resume do you think MVP's have? What does he lack? Because if your case is his team went 3-1 without him, you do not have a case.

Not top 3 candidate. His stats are down in everything except points this year, while some other candidates have incredible numbers. Tell me, which player has got MVP because of his defensive skills since 2010?

Giannis.

I mean what is happening here lol

[sunsbg]

Tell me, which player has got MVP because of his defensive skills since 2010?

Giannis.

[eyeatoma]

Lmao at you putting the league leading scorer who just had an 8 game winning streak at 7.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

You’ll really die on this hill, huh? Everyone here watches games and everyone here doesn’t think he’s MVP worthy yet you’ll keep insisting he’s the MVP favorite. JFC

Everyone here does not agree he's not MVP worthy. And you may have missed this, but he has finished 2nd in b2b years so its not like this is new from him. Embiid is a great player, absolutely an MVP level player.

He's not my frontrunner, Tatum, Jokic, and Giannis are my top 3, but I absolutely think he belongs in any serious MVP consideration.

Appreciate you saying that but I also wonder why you have Giannis over Embiid. Embiid is more efficient this year, scoring more points, playing nearly as good defense, and has the Sixers doing quite well. Bucks are a bit of a mess now with injures, and this is Giannis' least efficient season in the last 2 years.

[Bob8]

Well he's one of the best offensive players in the league.
And one of the best defensive players in the league.
And almost certainly the very best transition player in the league.
His individual numbers are incredible.
His team is very good.

I'm confused why you think he is not a candidate? What kind of resume do you think MVP's have? What does he lack? Because if your case is his team went 3-1 without him, you do not have a case.

Not top 3 candidate. His stats are down in everything except points this year, while some other candidates have incredible numbers. Tell me, which player has got MVP because of his defensive skills since 2010?

Giannis.

I mean what is happening here lol

If that was really a case LeBron should have gotten at least 10 MVPs.

You might look a little closer to Giannis's stats, counting or advanced and his efficiency, he's not exactly near the top anywhere. Please look, before you answer, you might be surprised.

[Texas Chuck]

You’ll really die on this hill, huh? Everyone here watches games and everyone here doesn’t think he’s MVP worthy yet you’ll keep insisting he’s the MVP favorite. JFC

Everyone here does not agree he's not MVP worthy. And you may have missed this, but he has finished 2nd in b2b years so its not like this is new from him. Embiid is a great player, absolutely an MVP level player.

He's not my frontrunner, Tatum, Jokic, and Giannis are my top 3, but I absolutely think he belongs in any serious MVP consideration.

Appreciate you saying that but I also wonder why you have Giannis over Embiid. Embiid is more efficient this year, scoring more points, playing nearly as good defense, and has the Sixers doing quite well. Bucks are a bit of a mess now with injures, and this is Giannis' least efficient season in the last 2 years.

I may need to take a closer look honestly. As great as I believe Embiid to be I just think Giannis is better. But that's too simplistic in determining MVP, otherwise Steph would be higher on my list.

So its possible if I looked closer Embiid could be ahead of Giannis at this point. I tend to default Giannis/Jokic in unless something is glaringly wrong and nothing is glaringly wrong with either guy obviously.

[eyeatoma]

1. Luka
2. Jokic
3. Giannis
4. Tatum
5. Durant

6. Morant
7. Embiid
8. Zion
9. Gilgeous-Alexander
10. Mitchell

Lmao at you putting the league leading scorer who just had an 8 game winning streak at 7.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

You’ll really die on this hill, huh? Everyone here watches games and everyone here doesn’t think he’s MVP worthy yet you’ll keep insisting he’s the MVP favorite. JFC

I'm not going to argue with someone who things the MVP runner up the last two years, who is leading the league in scoring, having his most efficient season, playing top 3 league defense, is not MVP worthy. Apart from losing yesterday, Sixers also just finished an 8 game winning streak.

I'm just not.

Instead lets give it to Morant, who's Grizzlies have been wildly inconsistent, and he's being his usual inefficient self. LOL.

[Texas Chuck]

Not top 3 candidate. His stats are down in everything except points this year, while some other candidates have incredible numbers. Tell me, which player has got MVP because of his defensive skills since 2010?

Giannis.

I mean what is happening here lol

If that was really a case LeBron should have gotten at least 10 MVPs.

You might look a little closer to Giannis's stats, counting or advanced and his efficiency, he's not exactly near the top anywhere.

You are talking to the wrong guy lol. I think Lebron absolutely should have 10 MVP's. And Duncan more than 2.

But I realize I am doing this thread wrong. I'm not actually supposed to try and figure out who should be MVP. I should be making a case for why the best player on my favorite team is the only legit candidate. I'll do better.

[Bob8]

Giannis.

I mean what is happening here lol

If that was really a case LeBron should have gotten at least 10 MVPs.

You might look a little closer to Giannis's stats, counting or advanced and his efficiency, he's not exactly near the top anywhere.

You are talking to the wrong guy lol. I think Lebron absolutely should have 10 MVP's. And Duncan more than 2.

But I realize I am doing this thread wrong. I'm not actually supposed to try and figure out who should be MVP. I should be making a case for why the best player on my favorite team is the only legit candidate. I'll do better.

Look. I will paste some stats, look at them and then tell me if you still think Giannis is top 3.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_advanced.html

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

[Texas Chuck]

Yeah I don't make my MVP decision on just stats. You need to do what you need to do, but that ignores so much context, particularly defense which you've as much as admitted you ignore which really hurts a guy like Giannis or Embiid who provide immense defensive impact that helps their teams be successful.

You aren't going to convert me to dismissing great players because you want a specific player to be MVP. I wouldn't want you to waste time trying to convert me when maybe there are other posters who can be persuaded by this approach.

I love Luka too. I think he's an absurd talent. I don't yet have him as the MVP of the league. Maybe I will come April.

[Bob8]

Yeah I don't make my MVP decision on just stats. You need to do what you need to do, but that ignores so much context, particularly defense which you've as much as admitted you ignore which really hurts a guy like Giannis or Embiid who provide immense defensive impact that helps their teams be successful.

You aren't going to convert me to dismissing great players because you want a specific player to be MVP. I wouldn't want you to waste time trying to convert me when maybe there are other posters who can be persuaded by this approach.

I love Luka too. I think he's an absurd talent. I don't yet have him as the MVP of the league. Maybe I will come April.

You're missing something here. I believe Jokic and Tatum are front runners, so my problem is only with Giannis, that negates what you're implying here. Giannis has very pedestrian advanced stats that includes D too. So even if we exclude Luka, he still for sure isn't better than Embiid.

You have many MVPs, who were very average or even bad defenders and no MVP, who was average/bad offensive player and great defender. That should tell you, where priorities lies.

[Texas Chuck]

You have many MVPs, who were very average or even bad defenders and no MVP, who was average/bad offensive player and great defender. That should tell you, where priorities lies.

Please google the name William "Bill" Russell. A 5 time MVP who was so valuable they literally named the Finals Most Valuable Player award after him.

You don't value defense. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just means you are ignorant about its worth.

[sunsbg]

Bob, you had a big problem with Tatum just until recently. Just as a reminder.

[Bob8]

You have many MVPs, who were very average or even bad defenders and no MVP, who was average/bad offensive player and great defender. That should tell you, where priorities lies.

Please google the name William "Bill" Russell. A 5 time MVP who was so valuable they literally named the Finals Most Valuable Player award after him.

You don't value defense. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just means you are ignorant about its worth.

Fact that you have to go 60 years back tells me everything.

What about more recent ones, Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Rose, Nash or even Dirk from Dallas?

[Texas Chuck]

You have many MVPs, who were very average or even bad defenders and no MVP, who was average/bad offensive player and great defender. That should tell you, where priorities lies.

Please google the name William "Bill" Russell. A 5 time MVP who was so valuable they literally named the Finals Most Valuable Player award after him.

You don't value defense. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just means you are ignorant about its worth.

Fact that you have to go 60 years back tells me everything.

What about more recent ones, Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Rose, Nash or even Dirk from Dallas?

Do you ever concede a point? Or are you just here to argue?

Obviously in every sport, offense wins more awards than defense. You are breaking no news here to me. However you continue to make some bold claims that are shown to be wrong and then you move the goalposts. That's pointless.

You have whatever MVP candidate you want. I still have Giannis. I feel like I am standing on solid ground regardless of what Bob thinks.

[Kurtz]

You have many MVPs, who were very average or even bad defenders and no MVP, who was average/bad offensive player and great defender. That should tell you, where priorities lies.

Please google the name William "Bill" Russell. A 5 time MVP who was so valuable they literally named the Finals Most Valuable Player award after him.

You don't value defense. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just means you are ignorant about its worth.

I don't know if that example serves your point, Chuck...how many of those Russel MVP voters you figure are still kicking around today?

[Bob8]

Please google the name William "Bill" Russell. A 5 time MVP who was so valuable they literally named the Finals Most Valuable Player award after him.

You don't value defense. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value. Just means you are ignorant about its worth.

Fact that you have to go 60 years back tells me everything.

What about more recent ones, Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Rose, Nash or even Dirk from Dallas?

Do you ever concede a point? Or are you just here to argue?

Obviously in every sport, offense wins more awards than defense. You are breaking no news here to me. However you continue to make some bold claims that are shown to be wrong and then you move the goalposts. That's pointless.

You have whatever MVP candidate you want. I still have Giannis. I feel like I am standing on solid ground regardless of what Bob thinks.

And what are you conceding? I have pasted numerous advanced stats that show how Giannis doesn't belong among top3. You just dismissed them, like they don't exist. You on the other hand didn't put a single argument about Giannis, except that he plays good D. And even, if we say that D is half of award, which we all know that isn't, he still can't be before Embiid. You might check +/-, on/off of your defensive juggernaut. Btw. Bucks have better defensive rating, when he's off court.

But you're right. It's your opinion and you're entitled to have one. The problem I see, is your constant insinuations, why I don't see Giannis in top 3.

[Maverick41]

As much as I want to say Luka is the MVP as a Mavs fan, I cannot because while he has the stats, he does not have the record. I got Giannis with Jokic being neck and neck with him. Imo we've taken Giannis's greatness for granted. He's carried the Bucks without his 2nd best scorer for most of the season, tied with Luka for the highest usage in the NBA, AND still playing elite defense. All that while leading his team to the 2nd seed in the east. He checks every category needed for an MVP.

[Bob8]

As much as I want to say Luka is the MVP as a Mavs fan, I cannot because while he has the stats, he does not have the record. I got Giannis with Jokic being neck and neck with him. Imo we've taken Giannis's greatness for granted. He's carried the Bucks without his 2nd best scorer for most of the season, tied with Luka for the highest usage in the NBA, AND still playing elite defense. All that while leading his team to the 2nd seed in the east. He checks every category needed for an MVP.

Did he?

https://www.nba.com/team/1610612749/bucks/