NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[JWillTheFreak]

Why are people acting like luka only had one good game... he been one of the most consistent players all year... There is no huge gap between the top 5 players for the MVP race, the only difference some of them got a better record but its still early...

[CobraCommander]

I'm really tired of the whole team seed thing mattering so much. I'd much rather MVP be for the best performance than the "best player on the best team" thing; Maybe eliminate teams under 500, but it would really bother me if Luka's crazy season is undermined by his team record. Clearly this Mavs team would be in the Wemby chase without him, it's just an incredible performance even if they never end up in the top 4 seeding.

But this has been the rule forever. The writers value winning over star stats. And it kinda makes sense… if Luka gets the MVP on a losing team or a subpar team, you could end up rewarding stat stuffing over valuing winning… and winning is what sports is about -

But let’s be real about this… if Luka had 60 last night and lost - would it be as good as what we saw?? Naw… he did what was needed to win and at the end of the day you just add up the stats and it is what it is… Luka a winner - he will get the Mavs in the running

Luka will be in the race as long as his team's record is positive, 6th seed or better preferably to align with Jokic's case. Winning and stats should go hand in hand, which is usually the case with all awards. As an example Euroleague has round MVP given to the player with best PIR on a team that won. Imagine NBA had a game day MVP, Mavs lost and Luka is not considered the MVP. Kinda silly, but shows all leagues promote winning.

Anyway, very competitive MVP race between 5-6 players. I think by this time last season Jokic was a big frontrunner.

But objectively, Jokics stats are just better...plus he is winning. For Luka to past Jokic strictly on advance stats, Luka gotta step it up...the whole world has to step it up....or it has to be voter fatigue. Jokics advance stats are kinda nutty man...

[CobraCommander]

Lmao at you putting the league leading scorer who just had an 8 game winning streak at 7.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

You’ll really die on this hill, huh? Everyone here watches games and everyone here doesn’t think he’s MVP worthy yet you’ll keep insisting he’s the MVP favorite. JFC

Everyone here does not agree he's not MVP worthy. And you may have missed this, but he has finished 2nd in b2b years so its not like this is new from him. Embiid is a great player, absolutely an MVP level player.

He's not my frontrunner, Tatum, Jokic, and Giannis are my top 3, but I absolutely think he belongs in any serious MVP consideration.

Texas always the voice of reason lol

[JWillTheFreak]

But this has been the rule forever. The writers value winning over star stats. And it kinda makes sense… if Luka gets the MVP on a losing team or a subpar team, you could end up rewarding stat stuffing over valuing winning… and winning is what sports is about -

But let’s be real about this… if Luka had 60 last night and lost - would it be as good as what we saw?? Naw… he did what was needed to win and at the end of the day you just add up the stats and it is what it is… Luka a winner - he will get the Mavs in the running

Luka will be in the race as long as his team's record is positive, 6th seed or better preferably to align with Jokic's case. Winning and stats should go hand in hand, which is usually the case with all awards. As an example Euroleague has round MVP given to the player with best PIR on a team that won. Imagine NBA had a game day MVP, Mavs lost and Luka is not considered the MVP. Kinda silly, but shows all leagues promote winning.

Anyway, very competitive MVP race between 5-6 players. I think by this time last season Jokic was a big frontrunner.

But objectively, Jokics stats are just better...plus he is winning. For Luka to past Jokic strictly on advance stats, Luka gotta step it up...the whole world has to step it up....or it has to be voter fatigue. Jokics advance stats are kinda nutty man...

How are jokic stats so much better when he dropped less than 20 points nine times... Only thing jokic got is the first seed in the west...

[CobraCommander]

Luka will be in the race as long as his team's record is positive, 6th seed or better preferably to align with Jokic's case. Winning and stats should go hand in hand, which is usually the case with all awards. As an example Euroleague has round MVP given to the player with best PIR on a team that won. Imagine NBA had a game day MVP, Mavs lost and Luka is not considered the MVP. Kinda silly, but shows all leagues promote winning.

Anyway, very competitive MVP race between 5-6 players. I think by this time last season Jokic was a big frontrunner.

But objectively, Jokics stats are just better...plus he is winning. For Luka to past Jokic strictly on advance stats, Luka gotta step it up...the whole world has to step it up....or it has to be voter fatigue. Jokics advance stats are kinda nutty man...

How are jokic stats so much better when he dropped less than 20 points nine times... Only thing jokic got is the first seed in the west...

You know winning matters in the mvp race and the stats say something...efficiency matters my man... even after last nights nuclear explosion by Luka Jokics ortg is 133 and Lukas is 122 and defensively even with Luka 8th in steals jokic dRtg is 110 to Luka 109... apart from points per game on a vastly inferior shooting percentage Jokic is pretty much equivalent or better in everystat especially N 100 possessions

...it’s not me...it’s Jokic that’s doing this ...so if you have a problem take it up with Jokic and all these stat sights that say Jokic is todays Michael Jeffery Jordan...

Read for yourself and tell me where I am wrong

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=doncilu01&p1yrfrom=2023&player_id2=jokicni01&p2yrfrom=2023

[mademan]

Why are people acting like luka only had one good game... he been one of the most consistent players all year... There is no huge gap between the top 5 players for the MVP race, the only difference some of them got a better record but its still early...

There's not a huge gap in the sense that it can change quickly, but the MVP today is clearly Jokic. To say otherwise would be ridiculous, imo. He's playing as good or better than anyone else in the league with the number 1 seed where his 2 other max guys have been in and out of the lineup and really disappointing.

But ya, it's still early. It can change

[Exp0sed]

Not true, there is only one and it overvalues rebounding and assists from the center position which is ridiculous.

Check my post on the dpoy thread where i go over the stats.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

I'm not saying that Jokic is better defensively overall, just saying in some aspects he might be better than Embiid. Obviously not on switches against smaller guards, or shot-blocking. Those are Embiid's strengths. Jokic seems to me like a really good interior defender, who has very quick hands and causes deflections and closed passing lanes. I think he also reads the game at a higher level.

Yes very quick hands, high IQ, excellent positioning. A useful defender. But he's not anchoring a top 2 defense like Embiid.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

he's also "anchoring" a mediocre offense, despite playing alongside an atg offensive playmaker in Harden and forcing the 76ers to play in a sluggish pace while Jokic has turned AG into an all-star

No AG last couple games? got vlatko and Nnaji instead? np. Denver's offense not missing a beat

on that last play of the Wizards-76ers game, Philly was down by 3 with a dozen seconds or so left on the clock
Embiid gets the ball and has a clean look at a 3, he's an excellent shooter and should 100% take that shot

instead he decides to dribble inside (why?) and ends up losing the ball to Avdija

Embiid's a force, he's huge - too strong, quick with the ball, good finisher and shoots well from the line

but unless he gets fed by Harden (Harden had 11 assists just to Embiid in that 21 AST game!) - his decision making is poor
his mental abilities are not up to par with his physical abilities (and shooting)

how come "the best scorer ever" is anchoring a mediocre offense? with Harden at that

maybe it's because he doesn't create much for others?
maybe it's because he's content chucking 30+ shots at a good but not great efficiency?

teams are creaming in their pants letting Embiid take a ton of his mid range pullups which rarely draw fouls and he hits them at about 50% and that's nice, but it's not a winning strategy in the playoffs

have him score 38 on 32 shots but finish with 1 ast and 4 To's
Embiid gets to be PPG leader, interview about his scoring prowess and watch the Conf finals from his comfy couch at home

so tell me, what did u think about Embiid passing up the open 3, down 3 with 1 possession to go?

the cognitive \mental\ toughness \ leadership aspects are the ones that's keeping Embiid from being truly an MVP caliber player (and winner)

he will always be a notch beloew the truly elite ATG guys because they are also elite mentally

[JWillTheFreak]

But objectively, Jokics stats are just better...plus he is winning. For Luka to past Jokic strictly on advance stats, Luka gotta step it up...the whole world has to step it up....or it has to be voter fatigue. Jokics advance stats are kinda nutty man...

How are jokic stats so much better when he dropped less than 20 points nine times... Only thing jokic got is the first seed in the west...

You know winning matters in the mvp race and the stats say something...efficiency matters my man... even after last nights nuclear explosion by Luka Jokics ortg is 133 and Lukas is 122 and defensively even with Luka 8th in steals jokic dRtg is 110 to Luka 109... apart from points per game on a vastly inferior shooting percentage Jokic is pretty much equivalent or better in everystat especially N 100 possessions

...it’s not me...it’s Jokic that’s doing this ...so if you have a problem take it up with Jokic and all these stat sights that say Jokic is todays Michael Jeffery Jordan...

Read for yourself and tell me where I am wrong

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=doncilu01&p1yrfrom=2023&player_id2=jokicni01&p2yrfrom=2023

Obviously winning matters but the Mavs are only like 4 games from first place in the west... there is plenty of time to get into the top four... As of right sure you can give to jokic or tatum but some people act like the gab is so wide that noone else can catch up...

[CobraCommander]

How are jokic stats so much better when he dropped less than 20 points nine times... Only thing jokic got is the first seed in the west...

You know winning matters in the mvp race and the stats say something...efficiency matters my man... even after last nights nuclear explosion by Luka Jokics ortg is 133 and Lukas is 122 and defensively even with Luka 8th in steals jokic dRtg is 110 to Luka 109... apart from points per game on a vastly inferior shooting percentage Jokic is pretty much equivalent or better in everystat especially N 100 possessions

...it’s not me...it’s Jokic that’s doing this ...so if you have a problem take it up with Jokic and all these stat sights that say Jokic is todays Michael Jeffery Jordan...

Read for yourself and tell me where I am wrong

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=doncilu01&p1yrfrom=2023&player_id2=jokicni01&p2yrfrom=2023

Obviously winning matters but the Mavs are only like 4 games from first place in the west... there is plenty of time to get into the top four... As of right sure you can give to jokic or tatum but some people act like the gab is so wide that noone else can catch up...

You said stats not better ...now Look at the stats....example Jokic has more assist per 100 possessions and even with Lukas much improved (kudos for this) turn over rate, Jokic is avg less TOs....you said the stats were not better...you can read....Jokic is more efficient and effective and winning more - per the stats.... now what?

Jokic IS that guy

[JWillTheFreak]

You know winning matters in the mvp race and the stats say something...efficiency matters my man... even after last nights nuclear explosion by Luka Jokics ortg is 133 and Lukas is 122 and defensively even with Luka 8th in steals jokic dRtg is 110 to Luka 109... apart from points per game on a vastly inferior shooting percentage Jokic is pretty much equivalent or better in everystat especially N 100 possessions

...it’s not me...it’s Jokic that’s doing this ...so if you have a problem take it up with Jokic and all these stat sights that say Jokic is todays Michael Jeffery Jordan...

Read for yourself and tell me where I am wrong

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=doncilu01&p1yrfrom=2023&player_id2=jokicni01&p2yrfrom=2023

Obviously winning matters but the Mavs are only like 4 games from first place in the west... there is plenty of time to get into the top four... As of right sure you can give to jokic or tatum but some people act like the gab is so wide that noone else can catch up...

You said stats not better ...now Look at the stats....example Jokic has more assist per 100 possessions and even with Lukas much improved (kudos for this) turn over rate, Jokic is avg less TOs....you said the stats were not better...you can read....Jokic is more efficient and effective and winning more - per the stats.... now what?

Jokic IS that guy

Guess almost 34 points a game on 50 percent FG and 35 from behind the arc is not efficient enough... Plus he had a horrible start from the 3 point line... also Mavs choked bunch of close games which could've improved their standings... We shall see on the end of the season...

[CobraCommander]

Obviously winning matters but the Mavs are only like 4 games from first place in the west... there is plenty of time to get into the top four... As of right sure you can give to jokic or tatum but some people act like the gab is so wide that noone else can catch up...

You said stats not better ...now Look at the stats....example Jokic has more assist per 100 possessions and even with Lukas much improved (kudos for this) turn over rate, Jokic is avg less TOs....you said the stats were not better...you can read....Jokic is more efficient and effective and winning more - per the stats.... now what?

Jokic IS that guy

Guess almost 34 points a game on 50 percent FG and 35 from behind the arc is not efficient enough... Plus he had a horrible start from the 3 point line... also Mavs choked bunch of close games which could've improved their standings... We shall see on the end of the season...

U said jokic stats were not better ....I sent you the stats and Jokic stats are BETTER...and his team is first in the west...

Jokic is currently the MVP


I rest my case your honor ....

[Eagle4]

zion for mvp, 0.5 out of first without his 2nd best player for several weeks

[eyeatoma]

Pels back in first, Jokic is going to need a sizeable lead at first to win the MVP.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[Exp0sed]

Pels back in first, Jokic is going to need a sizeable lead at first to win the MVP.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

what about Embiid, would he need 1st to win the MVP?


edit: wrong thread, deleted the rest thouht this was the game thread lol

[Cubbies2120]

Pels back in first, Jokic is going to need a sizeable lead at first to win the MVP.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Two things:

1. Few weeks ago when #1 seed looked out of question, you said Jokic would need #1 seed. Now he needs a SIZEABLE lead at first? Despite his numbers getting even better?

2. In another thread, when Nuggets had same record as Grizzlies, you said they are TIED for first. Now, with same scenario in this MVP thread, Pelicans are > Nuggets for first.

Guess when Nuggets are in 1st with another team they’re either “tied” for first or 2nd seed

[eyeatoma]

Pels back in first, Jokic is going to need a sizeable lead at first to win the MVP.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Two things:

1. Few weeks ago when #1 seed looked out of question, you said Jokic would need #1 seed. Now he needs a SIZEABLE lead at first? Despite his numbers getting even better?

2. In another thread, when Nuggets had same record as Grizzlies, you said they are TIED for first. Now, with same scenario in this MVP thread, Pelicans are > Nuggets for first.

Guess when Nuggets are in 1st with another team they’re either “tied” for first or 2nd seed

I seem to remember the same thing from you two years ago, offering a bunch of mental gymnastics of why Sixers being in first wasn't enough for Embiid to win MVP.

Pot meet kettle.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[Bob8]

But this has been the rule forever. The writers value winning over star stats. And it kinda makes sense… if Luka gets the MVP on a losing team or a subpar team, you could end up rewarding stat stuffing over valuing winning… and winning is what sports is about -

But let’s be real about this… if Luka had 60 last night and lost - would it be as good as what we saw?? Naw… he did what was needed to win and at the end of the day you just add up the stats and it is what it is… Luka a winner - he will get the Mavs in the running

Luka will be in the race as long as his team's record is positive, 6th seed or better preferably to align with Jokic's case. Winning and stats should go hand in hand, which is usually the case with all awards. As an example Euroleague has round MVP given to the player with best PIR on a team that won. Imagine NBA had a game day MVP, Mavs lost and Luka is not considered the MVP. Kinda silly, but shows all leagues promote winning.

Anyway, very competitive MVP race between 5-6 players. I think by this time last season Jokic was a big frontrunner.

But objectively, Jokics stats are just better...plus he is winning. For Luka to past Jokic strictly on advance stats, Luka gotta step it up...the whole world has to step it up....or it has to be voter fatigue. Jokics advance stats are kinda nutty man...

Interesting enough, you don't care about advanced stats of Giannis. How comes? Do you have guts to compare advanced stats between Giannis and Luka?

[LessEyeTest]

Pels back in first, Jokic is going to need a sizeable lead at first to win the MVP.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Two things:

1. Few weeks ago when #1 seed looked out of question, you said Jokic would need #1 seed. Now he needs a SIZEABLE lead at first? Despite his numbers getting even better?

2. In another thread, when Nuggets had same record as Grizzlies, you said they are TIED for first. Now, with same scenario in this MVP thread, Pelicans are > Nuggets for first.

Guess when Nuggets are in 1st with another team they’re either “tied” for first or 2nd seed

I seem to remember the same thing from you two years ago, offering a bunch of mental gymnastics of why Sixers being in first wasn't enough for Embiid to win MVP.

Pot meet kettle.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

So you’re finally admitting you can’t be impartial about Jokic? Perfect, thanks!

[CobraCommander]

Luka will be in the race as long as his team's record is positive, 6th seed or better preferably to align with Jokic's case. Winning and stats should go hand in hand, which is usually the case with all awards. As an example Euroleague has round MVP given to the player with best PIR on a team that won. Imagine NBA had a game day MVP, Mavs lost and Luka is not considered the MVP. Kinda silly, but shows all leagues promote winning.

Anyway, very competitive MVP race between 5-6 players. I think by this time last season Jokic was a big frontrunner.

But objectively, Jokics stats are just better...plus he is winning. For Luka to past Jokic strictly on advance stats, Luka gotta step it up...the whole world has to step it up....or it has to be voter fatigue. Jokics advance stats are kinda nutty man...

Interesting enough, you don't care about advanced stats of Giannis. How comes? Do you have guts to compare advanced stats between Giannis and Luka?

Giannis ain’t the best player in the world - I have claimed Jokic is... it’s a one man race... honestly the voters saying Tatum the stats saying Jokic

[Bob8]

But objectively, Jokics stats are just better...plus he is winning. For Luka to past Jokic strictly on advance stats, Luka gotta step it up...the whole world has to step it up....or it has to be voter fatigue. Jokics advance stats are kinda nutty man...

Interesting enough, you don't care about advanced stats of Giannis. How comes? Do you have guts to compare advanced stats between Giannis and Luka?

Giannis ain’t the best player in the world - I have claimed Jokic is... it’s a one man race... honestly the voters saying Tatum the stats saying Jokic

If you make a case using advanced stats to prove something, I would expect that same comparison would be useful for other players too. Even more so, if one player would have a lot worse advanced stats, making ranking very easy. Jokic and Luka are close in advanced stats, Giannis isn't. Or you have different criteria for ranking different players? Criteria that fit your narrative?

Btw. Vegas has Tatum first and Luka second.