NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[NO-KG-AI]

You think the Pelicans are a better team than this season than everybody in the west? Or is Zion having a mvp impact?

It's both. Zion is a superstar and every time he catches the ball the entire team is creeping to his side of the court to the point that they are getting 3 in the key calls

But the Pelicans are a super deep and talented roster. If you take the top 2 players off every team, very few can compete with:

CJ
Jose Alvarado
Herb Jones
Trey Murphy
Jonas Valanciunas
Larry Nance Jr
Dyson Daniels
Devonte Graham
Naji Marshall

As a 9 man rotation that has multiple on ball creators, an inside out big man, a switchable big that can stretch the floor, an all defensive wing, a dead eye 35 foot deep shooting 6'9 athlete, and a bunch of length and defense overall on the wings...

Guys keep going in and out of the lineup, and the Pels keep producing because they have a ton of talent and versatility. Aside from all the depth, I'm not sure why people are disrespecting how good CJ and Jonas are individually. CJ was the #2 option on a perennial playoff team for years, and if they weren't both small guards and played with a better fitting partner, they are probably even better than that. For the last 6 seasons, Valanciunas has been at 21/14.5 on over 56% from the field, 36% from 3, and 80% at the line.

Nothing supports that Zion is carrying a poor or even mediocre team. These guys are playing great defense when everyone thought they would struggle there, and everyone is finding ways to make plays and make each other's life easier.

[Duke4life831]

You think the Pelicans are a better team than this season than everybody in the west? Or is Zion having a mvp impact?

It's both. Zion is a superstar and every time he catches the ball the entire team is creeping to his side of the court to the point that they are getting 3 in the key calls

But the Pelicans are a super deep and talented roster. If you take the top 2 players off every team, very few can compete with:

CJ
Jose Alvarado
Herb Jones
Trey Murphy
Jonas Valanciunas
Larry Nance Jr
Dyson Daniels
Devonte Graham
Naji Marshall

As a 9 man rotation that has multiple on ball creators, an inside out big man, a switchable big that can stretch the floor, an all defensive wing, a dead eye 35 foot deep shooting 6'9 athlete, and a bunch of length and defense overall on the wings...

Guys keep going in and out of the lineup, and the Pels keep producing because they have a ton of talent and versatility. Aside from all the depth, I'm not sure why people are disrespecting how good CJ and Jonas are individually. CJ was the #2 option on a perennial playoff team for years, and if they weren't both small guards and played with a better fitting partner, they are probably even better than that. For the last 6 seasons, Valanciunas has been at 21/14.5 on over 56% from the field, 36% from 3, and 80% at the line.

Nothing supports that Zion is carrying a poor or even mediocre team. These guys are playing great defense when everyone thought they would struggle there, and everyone is finding ways to make plays and make each other's life easier.

This 100%. Ive been vocal of the mistakes I think Griff has made over the years and Ive been vocal about having my doubts of how the Zion/BI/CJ trio will work. Even with all of that, the roster is damn good. When Devonte Graham is 11th in your rotation, youre doing pretty damn good. Hell Jaxson Hayes who was starting for them in the playoffs last year (granted small minutes but still started) cant see the court this year when the team is even 90% healthy. Yet the 2 times he has played 20 minutes this year (both this past week) he dropped 21/6/4 and 15/9/2. That is their 12th man, smash incase of emergency guy haha.

[deneem4]

You think the Pelicans are a better team than this season than everybody in the west? Or is Zion having a mvp impact?

It's both. Zion is a superstar and every time he catches the ball the entire team is creeping to his side of the court to the point that they are getting 3 in the key calls

But the Pelicans are a super deep and talented roster. If you take the top 2 players off every team, very few can compete with:

CJ
Jose Alvarado
Herb Jones
Trey Murphy
Jonas Valanciunas
Larry Nance Jr
Dyson Daniels
Devonte Graham
Naji Marshall

As a 9 man rotation that has multiple on ball creators, an inside out big man, a switchable big that can stretch the floor, an all defensive wing, a dead eye 35 foot deep shooting 6'9 athlete, and a bunch of length and defense overall on the wings...

Guys keep going in and out of the lineup, and the Pels keep producing because they have a ton of talent and versatility. Aside from all the depth, I'm not sure why people are disrespecting how good CJ and Jonas are individually. CJ was the #2 option on a perennial playoff team for years, and if they weren't both small guards and played with a better fitting partner, they are probably even better than that. For the last 6 seasons, Valanciunas has been at 21/14.5 on over 56% from the field, 36% from 3, and 80% at the line.

Nothing supports that Zion is carrying a poor or even mediocre team. These guys are playing great defense when everyone thought they would struggle there, and everyone is finding ways to make plays and make each other's life easier.

This 100%. Ive been vocal of the mistakes I think Griff has made over the years and Ive been vocal about having my doubts of how the Zion/BI/CJ trio will work. Even with all of that, the roster is damn good. When Devonte Graham is 11th in your rotation, youre doing pretty damn good. Hell Jaxson Hayes who was starting for them in the playoffs last year (granted small minutes but still started) cant see the court this year when the team is even 90% healthy. Yet the 2 times he has played 20 minutes this year (both this past week) he dropped 21/6/4 and 15/9/2. That is their 12th man, smash incase of emergency guy haha.

this is the roster for best team in the west, thanks for making my point…
After a full year off with injury and missing his 2nd best player he’s leading the west with Cj and Val that’s a hellofa narrative for mvp

And graham was demoted

[deneem4]

Tatum has been amazing but that a true deep roster
Kd has come back to form but Ben and kyrie are back
Jokic is imo runner up, but the nuggets are deep (bones is exceeding)
Embiid has harden and maxes was winning them games
Luka has had some monster games but the mavs haven’t won enough
Giannas still missing Middleton and aren’t winning like they should
Cleveland too well rounded for mitchell
And Zion had a slow start and they won some games without him

That’s all the mvp debates right?

[LessEyeTest]

Tatum has been amazing but that a true deep roster
Kd has come back to form but Ben and kyrie are back
[b]Jokic is imo runner up, but the nuggets are deep (bones is exceeding)[/b]
Embiid has harden and maxes was winning them games
Luka has had some monster games but the mavs haven’t won enough
Giannas still missing Middleton and aren’t winning like they should
Cleveland too well rounded for mitchell
And Zion had a slow start and they won some games without him

That’s all the mvp debates right?

The rest are all true (especially 76ers relying on Harden & Maxey to win games), but Bones has been anything but good lol. Sub 40% shooting, below average WS/BPM/VORP, etc.

Jokic is single handedly carrying these scrubs yet again,

[deneem4]

Tatum has been amazing but that a true deep roster
Kd has come back to form but Ben and kyrie are back
[b]Jokic is imo runner up, but the nuggets are deep (bones is exceeding)[/b]
Embiid has harden and maxes was winning them games
Luka has had some monster games but the mavs haven’t won enough
Giannas still missing Middleton and aren’t winning like they should
Cleveland too well rounded for mitchell
And Zion had a slow start and they won some games without him

That’s all the mvp debates right?

The rest are all true (especially 76ers relying on Harden & Maxey to win games), but Bones has been anything but good lol. Sub 40% shooting, below average WS/BPM/VORP, etc.

Jokic is single handedly carrying these scrubs yet again,

Pelicans and nuggets trade,
(Guessing you’re kinda of a nuggets fan)
….If there’s one possible
Or wait it out?
Edit** took realistically out
////contracts aside///
bones for herb?
Cj for Gordon?
Val for Porter?
Pope for graham????

[Ballerhogger]

Jokic
Luka
are my favorites right now.
Followed by Zion,

I don't think jokic cant sustain this all year again. Going be interesting 2nd half.

[Peregrine01]

Jokic
Luka
are my favorites right now.
Followed by Zion,

I don't think jokic cant sustain this all year again. Going be interesting 2nd half.

Jokic is the most consistent night to night performer I’ve seen. Most nights he tries to get his teammates going but when he decides to be aggressive he pulls off 40 point nights on 66% shooting with an ease that I haven’t seen from another player probably ever.

[LessEyeTest]

Tatum has been amazing but that a true deep roster
Kd has come back to form but Ben and kyrie are back
[b]Jokic is imo runner up, but the nuggets are deep (bones is exceeding)[/b]
Embiid has harden and maxes was winning them games
Luka has had some monster games but the mavs haven’t won enough
Giannas still missing Middleton and aren’t winning like they should
Cleveland too well rounded for mitchell
And Zion had a slow start and they won some games without him

That’s all the mvp debates right?

The rest are all true (especially 76ers relying on Harden & Maxey to win games), but Bones has been anything but good lol. Sub 40% shooting, below average WS/BPM/VORP, etc.

Jokic is single handedly carrying these scrubs yet again,

Pelicans and nuggets trade,
(Guessing you’re kinda of a nuggets fan)
….If there’s one possible
Or wait it out?
Edit** took realistically out
////contracts aside///
bones for herb?
Cj for Gordon?
Val for Porter?
Pope for graham????

Yes to the Bones for Herb trade! The rest, eh.

[BoatsNZones]

Jokic
Luka
are my favorites right now.
Followed by Zion,

I don't think jokic cant sustain this all year again. Going be interesting 2nd half.

Lol he's been doing it for years on end and looks like he's barely trying on a night to night basis. It's just a matter of if he has the teammates to keep up a strong record. Now entering his peak/prime, he's obviously going to keep this up.

[ty 4191]

Jokic is the most consistent night to night performer I’ve seen. Most nights he tries to get his teammates going but when he decides to be aggressive he pulls off 40 point nights on 66% shooting with an ease that I haven’t seen from another player probably ever.

Games with .500 FG% this season:

Embiid: 17 for 25
Giannis: 18 for 29
Jokic: 30 for 31

Jokic's career FG% from 5-10 feet is an (astounding) .572 (1649 FGA).

Since 1996-1997, min 1000 FGA, here are some other leaders among players who were primarily (or exclusively) centers.

-Nikola Jokic: .572
-Jonas Valančiūnas: .499
-Karl-Anthony Towns: .485
-Rik Smits: .479
-Robin Lopez: .476
-Hakeem Olajuwon: .473
-Brook Lopez: .459
-Nikola Vučević: .456
-Yao Ming: .453
-Alonzo Mourning:
-Marc Gasol: .446
-Tim Duncan: .430
-Shaquille O'Neal: .421
-Dikembe Mutombo: .419
-Dwight Howard: .397
-Andre Drummond: .382

(PS: As another frame of reference, Giannis shoots .341 (!!) from 5-10 feet.)

If you look at all players with 1000 FGA from 5-10 feet the past 26 years, this puts Jokic's Z Score at +4.2 (standard deviations above the mean). That is 99.973rd percentile!!

As a frame of reference, Wilt scored 40.6 PPG from 1959-1960 through 1964-1965. Oscar was second with 31.1 ppg. Wilt's Z Score for PPG was "only" 3.09 standard deviations above the mean among all players with 10000 MP those years. The average of all those players was 17 PPG, FWIW.

Rodman's TRB% 1991-1992 through 1997-1998 was a staggering 26.0%. Shawn Kemp was a (very) distant second at 19.0%. Rodman's Z Score was "only" 2.85 standard deviations above the mean among all players with 15000 MP those years. The average of all those players was 11.2% TRB%.

[Oscar9992]

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[Oscar9992]

Mavs are 0-3 without Luka... and 20-13 with him this season

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Luka "Babe Ruth" Doncic

[eyeatoma]

Right now, Luka and Tatum are neck and neck, after that, Embiid, Jokic/Giannis.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[bradybunch]

Luka's the MVP right now.

This unspoken rule about needing to have the best record or close to it needs to go.

[BoatsNZones]

The 5-0 win streak is against 0 teams over .500, the closest being the Knicks who were without RJ Barret and Brunson. Great performances by him, but not exactly the most impressive stretch we can find. He has the Spurs and Rockets coming up, so at least the narrative can grow against the continued weak competition.

Jokic is the clear MVP thus far, but I like that there is a host of candidates.

[bradybunch]

The 5-0 win streak is against 0 teams over .500, the closest being the Knicks who were without RJ Barret and Brunson. Great performances by him, but not exactly the most impressive stretch we can find. He has the Spurs and Rockets coming up, so at least the narrative can grow against the continued weak competition.

Jokic is the clear MVP thus far, but I like that there is a host of candidates.

Mavs 0-3 without Luka.

20-13 with Luka.

Every MVP candidate has a far better roster than the Mavs.

[BoatsNZones]

The 5-0 win streak is against 0 teams over .500, the closest being the Knicks who were without RJ Barret and Brunson. Great performances by him, but not exactly the most impressive stretch we can find. He has the Spurs and Rockets coming up, so at least the narrative can grow against the continued weak competition.

Jokic is the clear MVP thus far, but I like that there is a host of candidates.

Mavs 0-3 without Luka.

20-13 with Luka.

Every MVP candidate has a far better roster than the Mavs.

20-13 is not anything special to be bolstering. It's your standard 5 seed record pace. They're a +4 with him on the floor and a -2.9 with him off. It's fine. It's not Jokic.

[boogiezen]

The 5-0 win streak is against 0 teams over .500, the closest being the Knicks who were without RJ Barret and Brunson. Great performances by him, but not exactly the most impressive stretch we can find. He has the Spurs and Rockets coming up, so at least the narrative can grow against the continued weak competition.

Jokic is the clear MVP thus far, but I like that there is a host of candidates.

You have to remember, the Mavs are missing their key defensive players with this stretch and Luka's 2nd best player is Spencer. The Nuggets has more depth. If Jokic managed to win last year with his team at number 6 in the West, why not Luka if Dallas continues to win games?