Moe Wagner Suspended 2 Games, 8 Other Magic Players Suspended 1 Game

[JoshuaPotter]

I just watched the video again. Sure looked to me like Moe was actually trying to apologize to Hayes when he got shoved from behind, then Hayes sucker punched him.

That's how I saw it too. Moe waded right into the mob without any aggressive stance (dumb in hindsight)...

The hip check of a guy running full speed after a loose ball is inexcusable, he was not screening Hayes (like he should have). It was an unnecessarily violent act and very bad judgment by a high-energy emotional player - who, I think, realized immediately the severity of his action...I love him but he deserves two games.

Moe’s hip check was “violent”? C’mon, that’s a bit much.

Flagrant and ejection, fair. Anything more is excessive in my view. I’ve seen guys get undercut in the air and body slammed that lead to no more than a flagrant/ejection.


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This is not meant to reflect poorly on you skybox when I say this. Just a comment made speaking to large generalities.

This fight was a nothing burger. There are elements of it I could go either way on suspension times on, but overall if you ask me 3 years from now I may not remember it. Its that uneventful. Heck, I forget the "little ceasars arena brawl" on quite a few occasions. Yet also, I lived through an NBA where getting kicked in the nuts, and strangled happened.

In terms of Mo Wagners severity. I don't think he his morals were in the right. In terms of actual force, I've seen people box out harder then that "shove". I also understand the way we call fouls is different now and the game has evolved and i'm not mad about that either. I just don't see the hype of the "oh so powerful" hip check.

[JoshuaPotter]

Can’t believe I vouched for Hayes in his draft.

Not only does he suck, but he lacks judgement.

His penalty should have easily been 7-10 games.

Meh we get our player analysis wrong every once in a while. I had a bad day once too and was short with someone and realized that wasn't me I just had a short fuse that day. Instantly apologized and asked if we could move on from it.

Now insert a short fuse day with a very physical sport and a very physical event happening. I can see it. Did he deserve more? I am not as familiar with the rules so I don't know, but I wouldn't have been mad if he got more either even 7-10.

[Skybox]

I just watched the video again. Sure looked to me like Moe was actually trying to apologize to Hayes when he got shoved from behind, then Hayes sucker punched him.

That's how I saw it too. Moe waded right into the mob without any aggressive stance (dumb in hindsight)...

The hip check of a guy running full speed after a loose ball is inexcusable, he was not screening Hayes (like he should have). It was an unnecessarily violent act and very bad judgment by a high-energy emotional player - who, I think, realized immediately the severity of his action...I love him but he deserves two games.

Moe’s hip check was “violent”? C’mon, that’s a bit much.

Flagrant and ejection, fair. Anything more is excessive in my view. I’ve seen guys get undercut in the air and body slammed that lead to no more than a flagrant/ejection.


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I'd compare it to those. It was done intentionally...that's violent. Sorry it's a scary word - there are many degrees, but it wasn't incidental contact going for the ball...It was a hip check to a guy in a vulnerable position...just like fouling a guy from behind, or undercutting a guy. Same deal.

[RookieStar]

Silver is the worst? He's easily the best in my book...at least in the US.

I dunno about best or worst but to me... there were a lot of decisions regarding incidents like these that to me were too lenient. It invites players to commit the same infractions because the punishment are too "lightweight"

If this were Stern's era.... player's wouldnbe quaking in their boots fearing they would be playing in Siberia

Do players in these situations think about the punishment when they are reacting? I doubt it. Penalty for leaving the bench, yes that should have an impact, because you should have a team of coaches stopping players from leaving because it's their job.

Honestly I watched this game recorded before i knew about the incident, so i was free of bias from this board and twitter, and as I was watching, I really thought Moe's part was the worse part. Only after looking at the board and twitter and seeing people saying Hayes should be suspended for the rest of the year or never play again, did I go back and watch the replay.

To me it looked like the Diallo push did the damage, and I am not even sure I would call the Killian action a punch. It was more of push...granted a push aimed at the head. He caught Moe with the outside of his wrist or forearm....You don't generally punch someone with two arms at the same time.
And are we even sure Moe was knocked out? I haven't seen anything confirming it. Is Moe in concussion protocol?

The way I look at it if you remove the idea of Moe getting knocked out, then Moe had it coming, and the penalties are probably exactly in line with what I would expect.

I did expect a couple more games for Hayes just based on the image of Wagner being knocked out, but I am not sure he was.

SO Maybe the NBA did a wonderful job on these suspensions and avoided all the emotion and only based them on facts.

Moe did a hip check - facts

Is it a dirty play? Same level as Lowry did on AG? OR is it the same as LBJ did on Beef Stew? Or Jokic on Morris or Morris on Jokic? You decide.

What happened next? Moe was standing there. 2 opponents did physical actions at his back. One shoved him, one punched him at the back of his head. Diallo got a 1 game suspension.. for me that's fair for the action done. Did it escalate the situation more than Moe hip-checking Hayes? HECK YES. That should be at least the same punishment as Moe. - facts

Hayes HIT a player on the back of his head that caused said player to get knocked out and was held up only by Stewart ( at least in my eyes, please correct me if i saw something different than you ) That is a dangerous move. You claimed it was a push?? Really? In what world do you live in? This is facts... your hand/arm hit someone at the back of the head/neck area which whatever part of the world you are in is DANGEROUS. You don't punish that kind of action enough you are telling the rest of the players said action might not be too bad after all.

As I said, when I saw that Malice at the Palace long ago, I was shocked. When Stern handed out the punishment it made me feel " good, those idiots deserved it" When incidents like this happened and I read what the punishments are, it made me feel " WTF? That's all???"

[Last Guardian]

I think it is fair. It looks worse for Hayes because it appeared Moe got knocked out but it wasn’t a real punch either. It’s not like he threw a wind up haymaker like when Shaq tried to end Brad Millers life. Hayes looked more like hybrid push punch or something. The fact that it was to the back of the head is what got him 3 games.

I blame Diallo for escalating it because Moe was trying to apologize. But I can understand standing up for your teammate. But at least get in his face, both guys did their attacks from behind

[tiderulz]

That's how I saw it too. Moe waded right into the mob without any aggressive stance (dumb in hindsight)...

The hip check of a guy running full speed after a loose ball is inexcusable, he was not screening Hayes (like he should have). It was an unnecessarily violent act and very bad judgment by a high-energy emotional player - who, I think, realized immediately the severity of his action...I love him but he deserves two games.

Moe’s hip check was “violent”? C’mon, that’s a bit much.

Flagrant and ejection, fair. Anything more is excessive in my view. I’ve seen guys get undercut in the air and body slammed that lead to no more than a flagrant/ejection.


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I'd compare it to those. It was done intentionally...that's violent. Sorry it's a scary word - there are many degrees, but it wasn't incidental contact going for the ball...It was a hip check to a guy in a vulnerable position...just like fouling a guy from behind, or undercutting a guy. Same deal.

completely disagree. ive been hip checked running. its physical, borderline dirty depending on how hard and where. undercutting a guy in the air is dirty and dangerous and could end someone's career. not the "same deal" at all to me

[tiderulz]

I think it is fair. It looks worse for Hayes because it appeared Moe got knocked out but it wasn’t a real punch either. It’s not like he threw a wind up haymaker like when Shaq tried to end Brad Millers life. Hayes looked more like hybrid push punch or something. The fact that it was to the back of the head is what got him 3 games.

I blame Diallo for escalating it because Moe was trying to apologize. But I can understand standing up for your teammate. But at least get in his face, both guys did their attacks from behind

what some UFC. forearm shivers can knock a person out in the face. taking one at the brain stem can do tremendous damage

[Orlando Dawg]

In an alternate universe, right now as I’m typing, MoW is still in a coma.

[anothermagicfan]

In the poll thread about snubbing the NBA I came down pretty hard on Moe. Moe definitely starting the whole thing. It was a dirty play. It wasn't necessarily a basketball play which is why it's a flagrant foul and an ejection for him. That is his penalty for the basketball play. My frustration with Moe is that after all the losing and rebuilding we just had an awesome 7 wins in 8 games and we are in the national spotlight in an ugly situation for a brawl. I do like Moe and what he brings to the team -at the end of the bench not as a regular rotation player.
Moe's actions where dirty in nature. The flagrant foul and ejection actually should be enough punishment for him. It probably doesn't help his case that he's always jawing and getting into scrums with players and refs. I think at most a 1 game suspension by the league.

As for the magic players that left the bench, hey a rule is a rule. Can't argue with that, but I would raise this question-were pistons players more involved with the altercation than the magic players?? But also is that their fault??

Which leads me to diallo and Hayes. ALL of their actions happened after the whistle had blown and play had stopped. The push in the back by diallo was intentional and not a basketball play. Dirtyer than Moe's play. Hayes threw a punch and landed it at the back of Moe's head. Unspeakable and cowardly. And any of you questioning whether it was a punch or whether or not Moe was acting watch it again and again and watch the 2 guys on the pistons bench that caught Moe. You could see their faces and the way they were holding Moe up. He was out cold.

Moe-should have no suspension.
Magic players that left bench-1 game
Diallo- at max 1 game. Pushing happens
Hayes- at least 10 games- play had stopped. He retaliated from behind with violence and intent to cause physical harm. Unnecessary and completely unnecessary

[Skybox]

I think it is fair. It looks worse for Hayes because it appeared Moe got knocked out but it wasn’t a real punch either. It’s not like he threw a wind up haymaker like when Shaq tried to end Brad Millers life. Hayes looked more like hybrid push punch or something. The fact that it was to the back of the head is what got him 3 games.

I blame Diallo for escalating it because Moe was trying to apologize. But I can understand standing up for your teammate. But at least get in his face, both guys did their attacks from behind

what some UFC. forearm shivers can knock a person out in the face. taking one at the brain stem can do tremendous damage

Ironically, Hayes' pathetic attempt at a punch would even be illegal in the UFC (blow to the back of the head)

[Skybox]

Next question...knowing Moe and his horribly effective ability to get under people's skin "flopping" when he felt Hayes' love tap?

A blow to the back of the head can be very dangerous but it sure didn't look like Hayes delivered it with any authority. Were Franz and Mo laughing about it in the locker room? If he was really knocked out cold, wouldn't he be in the Concussion Protocols, etc...I just think it would have been a much bigger national story and outrage if he was KTFO.

[eyriq]

I wonder how Moe feels about this fallout. He's an energy raw raw guy that is good for chemistry. This though really hurts the team and their wallets. I wonder how they process this

[SD2042]

I will say this. Mo started the melee with his flagrant push to Hayes to prevent him to get to the ball. At that point, common sense should've played out. Otherwise, no melee would've occur. Mo got the suspension and fine he deserved as he did created the situation.

Diallo made the situation worse by the shoulder check from behind on Mo. I get the standing up for your teammate part. Still, it was unnecessary and cost him a fine and one game suspension.

Hayes retaliated off the push from Mo and created a dangerous situation by planting Mo a forearm to the back of the head. Very vital part of the human body. I'm surprised Hayes collected a three game suspension. I was thinking along the lines of five to six games to go along with his fine.

To the Magic bench. It was more of a young and dumb move. Coming to see about your teammate is a human thing to do. However, the rule has been set in stone for years. Leave the bench during an altercation in progress will lead to a suspension. Point blank. Hopefully the Magic have reiterate this to the roster to keep this from happening again in the future.

[ReadyOrlando]

I will say this. Mo started the melee with his flagrant push to Hayes to prevent him to get to the ball. At that point, common sense should've played out. Otherwise, no melee would've occur. Mo got the suspension and fine he deserved as he did created the situation.

Diallo made the situation worse by the shoulder check from behind on Mo. I get the standing up for your teammate part. Still, it was unnecessary and cost him a fine and one game suspension.

Hayes retaliated off the push from Mo and created a dangerous situation by planting Mo a forearm to the back of the head. Very vital part of the human body. I'm surprised Hayes collected a three game suspension. I was thinking along the lines of five to six games to go along with his fine.

To the Magic bench. It was more of a young and dumb move. Coming to see about your teammate is a human thing to do. However, the rule has been set in stone for years. Leave the bench during an altercation in progress will lead to a suspension. Point blank. Hopefully the Magic have reiterate this to the roster to keep this from happening again in the future.

Some people are just loyal. As an 8 year Army Vet. I agree with our bench checking on their teammate. The entire Pistons team could have been stomping him out as far as they knew. The only way to know that he was ok, was to check on him. I strongly believe if anyone besides Pistons "Bad Boy" Joe Dumars making the call, the situation would have been given some consideration and Killian would have had a longer suspension.

[drsd]

I wonder how Moe feels about this fallout. He's an energy raw raw guy that is good for chemistry. This though really hurts the team and their wallets. I wonder how they process this

That 7 other Magicians ate money over this will build team unity. The F-Wagner postgame after the Pistons loss reflected as much.

From a cohesion standpoint, this is all good for the Magic.


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[eyriq]

I wonder how Moe feels about this fallout. He's an energy raw raw guy that is good for chemistry. This though really hurts the team and their wallets. I wonder how they process this

That 7 other Magicians ate money over this will build team unity. The F-Wagner postgame after the Pistons loss reflected as much.

From a cohesion standpoint, this is all good for the Magic.


..

That's a great point. They are professionals that made a conscious choice to bail him out knowing the implications. Love this angle.

[Magic#1]

Moe used excessive force and rightly received a flagrant. I've seen harder fouls where the player was not ejected. Hayes got pushed into his bench. That's not a huge deal. What Hayes did was a safety risk. Him getting just one more game than Moe is ridiculous. The rules are the rules. Personally, I liked seeing a reaction from our team and coach. If something like that happens and they act like it's just par for the course is more worrying. I'm not advocating for any dirty play, and Wagner did cross a line, but none of our players sought to hurt anybody on Detroit. There's a difference and the NBA didn't do that difference justice. It is what it is.