Gobert Trade Was Bad, But What About the Dejounte Murray Trade?

CanadianBacon15 · Post #41 » by **CanadianBacon15** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:06 pm

therealozzykhan wrote:Hawks I think with time will still be better, Gobert is just a bad fit with Minny. Hawks have struggled in games without Capela 2-6. That's had a bigger impact on their defense.

Hawks fans do not exist on here I don't think.

meekrab · Post #42 » by **meekrab** » Fri Dec 30, 2022 11:07 pm

TheLand13 wrote:
meekrab wrote:Trading a bunch of stuff for a low efficiency short guy has never really worked out well, has it?

Short?

He's a 6'5 PG. In what way is that short?

He's 6'5, you just said it.

jayu70 · Post #43 » by **jayu70** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:48 am

Bornstellar wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
Bornstellar wrote:
Because they won't be able to put a team around him by then since they're capped out and have no real assets to work with besides Collins who no one wants apparently and they don't have a lot of picks either.

They sold the farm to marginally improve their team (if at all) and their star player is still unhappy while they're about to lose another coach. Doesn't seem like Atlanta is winning this trade to me right now

Maybe I don't understand what 'sold the farm' means.
Hawks are on the hook for two of their own future picks in 2025 and 2027 - that's it.
The other 1st was the Charlotte pick

And an unprotected swap in 2026. Spurs basically own their draft for 3 straight years. You think that's small potatoes?

You do understand how a swap works though right? Hawks will still have a pick in 2026.

Bornstellar · Post #44 » by **Bornstellar** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 12:58 am

jayu70 wrote:
Bornstellar wrote:
jayu70 wrote:Maybe I don't understand what 'sold the farm' means.
Hawks are on the hook for two of their own future picks in 2025 and 2027 - that's it.
The other 1st was the Charlotte pick

And an unprotected swap in 2026. Spurs basically own their draft for 3 straight years. You think that's small potatoes?

You do understand how a swap works though right? Hawks will still have a pick in 2026.

And you understand if your team implodes and end up with a higher draft pick it becomes ours and you get wherever we pick (which may end up as a later first by then)? Along with no picks the year before and after?

I guess man. I didn't say it was the worst trade ever, but it wasn't a very good trade for ATL imo

Chinook · Post #45 » by **Chinook** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:20 am

I don't like the tone of this thread. I think it'd be better for the Spurs if Murray was a good piece who ended up walking after having some success in ATL rather than the Hawks being bad. I couldn't care less how they do in 2023 and 2024. Them being bad makes me sad. Outside of a bit of gloating by some select folks online, I seen no motivation to want the trade to backfire for Atlanta.

With that said, yeah, Murray wasn't moving the needle like a lot of people assumed. He got a lot of stats, but he was a net-negative player for most of his time in SA. I do think the Spurs didn't trade him to tank as much as they traded him because he wasn't going to add enough value to team to justify passing on the trade value and paying him the money. He wasn't marketable despite being the face of the franchise. He couldn't anchor a defense. He wasn't very good as a lead guard. I think he's much closer to someone like Draymond or Smart than he is to foundational piece he wants to be. I did say I worried about him in Atlanta in the sense that he was going to call his number a whole lot and not fade into the background in the way I think would get the most out of him. A DeJounte who plays to his strengths could be the engine that makes a Young/Collins pairing works. But a Murray who's still hunting acclaim/that next contract isn't nearly as helpful.

Atlanta should've tried to beat Boston's offer for Derrick White. I think he would've been the glue they really needed at the two while still preserving future picks for that final big move they seem to want to make.

payton2kemp · Post #46 » by **payton2kemp** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 1:23 am

jayu70 wrote:
Bornstellar wrote:
jayu70 wrote:Maybe I don't understand what 'sold the farm' means.
Hawks are on the hook for two of their own future picks in 2025 and 2027 - that's it.
The other 1st was the Charlotte pick

And an unprotected swap in 2026. Spurs basically own their draft for 3 straight years. You think that's small potatoes?

You do understand how a swap works though right? Hawks will still have a pick in 2026.

Doubt the Spurs will be better than the Hawks in 2026. Spurs are trash.

TheLand13 · Post #47 » by **TheLand13** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:29 am

meekrab wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
meekrab wrote:Trading a bunch of stuff for a low efficiency short guy has never really worked out well, has it?

Short?

He's a 6'5 PG. In what way is that short?

He's 6'5, you just said it.

And? In what way is 6’5 short for a PG?

meekrab · Post #48 » by **meekrab** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 2:48 am

TheLand13 wrote:
meekrab wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
Short?

He's a 6'5 PG. In what way is that short?

He's 6'5, you just said it.

And? In what way is 6’5 short for a PG?

Only you are saying that.

LBJKB24MJ23 · Post #49 » by **LBJKB24MJ23** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:11 am

not surprised by the Hawks record. Its not Murray's fault tbh.

its always been Trae's lack of defense. and this year, he's also in a shooting slump. if he ever gets around to the rumours of him wanting to be the next star to demand a trade being true ... because his team is sucking - he should take a look in the mirror.

Murray was a good move. Trae needs to be a lot better overall.

LBJKB24MJ23 · Post #50 » by **LBJKB24MJ23** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:12 am

meekrab wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
meekrab wrote:He's 6'5, you just said it.

And? In what way is 6’5 short for a PG?

Only you are saying that.

round and round we go :lol:

kane0801 · Post #51 » by **kane0801** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:15 am

Hawks problem is Trae bad defense and shot selection.Not Murray

azcatz11 · Post #52 » by **azcatz11** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:18 am

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
meekrab wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:
And? In what way is 6’5 short for a PG?

Only you are saying that.

round and round we go

I read that exchange like 3 times to see what the hell was going on :lol:

meekrab · Post #53 » by **meekrab** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:21 am

azcatz11 wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
meekrab wrote:Only you are saying that.

round and round we go

I read that exchange like 3 times to see what the hell was going on

I don't get it, he's 6'5", he's not a tall guy in the NBA. 90% of the best players are 6'7"-6'10". I never said he was small for a PG. :roll:

LBJKB24MJ23 · Post #54 » by **LBJKB24MJ23** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:23 am

meekrab wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
round and round we go

I read that exchange like 3 times to see what the hell was going on

I don't get it, he's 6'5", he's not a tall guy in the NBA. 90% of the best players are 6'7"-6'10". I never said he was small for a PG.

the average height in the NBA in 2023 is 6-foot-6.74-inches.

meekrab · Post #55 » by **meekrab** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:29 am

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
meekrab wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
I read that exchange like 3 times to see what the hell was going on

I don't get it, he's 6'5", he's not a tall guy in the NBA. 90% of the best players are 6'7"-6'10". I never said he was small for a PG.

the average height in the NBA in 2023 is 6-foot-6.74-inches.

So he's short and inefficient and overrated on defense.

azcatz11 · Post #56 » by **azcatz11** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:33 am

meekrab wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
meekrab wrote:I don't get it, he's 6'5", he's not a tall guy in the NBA. 90% of the best players are 6'7"-6'10". I never said he was small for a PG.

the average height in the NBA in 2023 is 6-foot-6.74-inches.

So he's short and inefficient and overrated on defense.

So you just don’t value the PG position? You want a wing as a PG in the traditional sense to initiate the offense? I’m trying to understand your position

meekrab · Post #57 » by **meekrab** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:53 am

azcatz11 wrote:
meekrab wrote:
LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
the average height in the NBA in 2023 is 6-foot-6.74-inches.

So he's short and inefficient and overrated on defense.

So you just don’t value the PG position? You want a wing as a PG in the traditional sense to initiate the offense? I’m trying to understand your position

Not sure what's hard to understand, the Hawks traded a bunch of value for a guy who's inefficient at scoring and short. There's pretty much no recorded instance of that working out well.

Threezus · Post #58 » by **Threezus** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 4:37 am

meekrab wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
meekrab wrote:So he's short and inefficient and overrated on defense.

So you just don’t value the PG position? You want a wing as a PG in the traditional sense to initiate the offense? I’m trying to understand your position

Not sure what's hard to understand, the Hawks traded a bunch of value for a guy who's inefficient at scoring and short. There's pretty much no recorded instance of that working out well.

i dunno it seemed to work out pretty dang well for the Bucks trading for a 6'5 jrue Holiday who is pretty much a older version of Murray. Pretty similar compensation as well. I would 100% trade for both guys again if i were both teams.

TheLand13 · Post #59 » by **TheLand13** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:24 am

meekrab wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
meekrab wrote:So he's short and inefficient and overrated on defense.

So you just don’t value the PG position? You want a wing as a PG in the traditional sense to initiate the offense? I’m trying to understand your position

Not sure what's hard to understand, the Hawks traded a bunch of value for a guy who's inefficient at scoring and short. There's pretty much no recorded instance of that working out well.

You said the guy is short. He's not short. You are factually wrong on the matter.

SpreeS · Post #60 » by **SpreeS** » Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:35 am

TheLand13 wrote:
SpreeS wrote:All these trades are bad ones

Gobert to MIN
Murray to ATL
Mitchell to CLE
Vucevic to CHI

16 picks were traded or will be swaped in these trades and all these teams are first rnd exit folder at best.

Please do explain how Cleveland is a first round exist team at best. I can't wait to hear this one.

SpreeS wrote:Nah, you won't win with Mitchell as top dog. Mitchell teams looked better w/o him in the last 4 years.

What? I would take easy 4 teams BOS/PHI/BKN/MIL over CLE in PO. After hot start 8W-1L, CLE has 14W-13L record. Also won all 5 OT.

This is a bad trade and why. You don’t invest into 6-1 guard as top guy when yours second best player also is 6-1 guard and you have huge hole at SF. This is stupid.

CLE gave 5 picks with allstar in Markkanen and other 6-1 guard Sexton. Markkanen impact alone is way bigger than Mitchell this season.

This summer CLE will have a lot of money after Love/Lavert contracts expire. But free agents market for big SG or SF is very limited. The best option here Brooks, Barnes, Oubre???, Hart.