Make Your Best Offer: Gordon Hayward

[Texas Chuck]

he never becomes an asset. Just like Westbrook isn't an asset.

Salary matching tool? Sure. But that's a different thing. But when Dallas goes star hunting the other team isn't going to count Hayward towards any of the value they want. He's just a nice big expiring tool. But Bullock/Bertans are essentially already that.

[daoneandonly]

The only thing I'd offer for the Mavs is THJ and Bertans, but don't see any reason why Charlotte would touch that

[JMAC3]

he never becomes an asset. Just like Westbrook isn't an asset.

Salary matching tool? Sure. But that's a different thing. But when Dallas goes star hunting the other team isn't going to count Hayward towards any of the value they want. He's just a nice big expiring tool. But Bullock/Bertans are essentially already that.

I said how long until he is a neutral asset? My guess is about 6 months. So why shouldn't hornets wait it out if he will be cheaper to move?

If teams acquiring Westbrook only had to pay him 31 million and he had the locker-room presence of Hayward he would be much easier to move. Problem is Westbrook makes 16 million more and has to have attention on him on/off court.

[shrink]

he never becomes an asset. Just like Westbrook isn't an asset.

Salary matching tool? Sure. But that's a different thing. But when Dallas goes star hunting the other team isn't going to count Hayward towards any of the value they want. He's just a nice big expiring tool. But Bullock/Bertans are essentially already that.

I said how long until he is a neutral asset? My guess is about 6 months. So why shouldn't hornets wait it out if he will be cheaper to move?

If teams acquiring Westbrook only had to pay him 31 million and he had the locker-room presence of Hayward he would be much easier to move. Problem is Westbrook makes 16 million more and has to have attention on him on/off court.

As long as his production is less than his salary, he never becomes a neutral asset.

He becomes LESS of a negative contract as the contract gets shorter, but even at the trade deadline, his production for the last third of the season is not going to be worth the payroll he takes up.

[JMAC3]

As long as his production is less than his salary, he never becomes a neutral asset.

He becomes LESS of a negative contract as the contract gets shorter, but even at the trade deadline, his production for the last third of the season is not going to be worth the payroll he takes up.

Right so if he will be LESS of a negative contract in 6 months. Why should the hornets trade him now if it is going to cost them more to move him?

[shrink]

As long as his production is less than his salary, he never becomes a neutral asset.

He becomes LESS of a negative contract as the contract gets shorter, but even at the trade deadline, his production for the last third of the season is not going to be worth the payroll he takes up.

Right so if he will be LESS of a negative contract in 6 months. Why should the hornets trade him now if it is going to cost them more to move him?

The answer is that if he gets hurt again, his trade value gets even more negative. They would pass on that risk to a team that is more risk-tolerant or needs toga,ble. Also, 1.5 years on a bad contract isn’t significantly different in trade value than 1.3 seasons.

But your overall point is true. Teams often wait until the deadline to move negative expirings (especially players who are out for the season with injury), because if they wait, they have eaten more of the bad salary, and it takes less assets to trade them for a productive player.

[Scoot McGroot]

This does seem very Indiana I have to say. They probably also make that work for 50+ wins and the 2nd round because of course they do.

And if they wanted to get aggressive they would still have plenty of assets to go get a legit PF and that's a pretty solid Indiana Pacers team.

Hayward would be the 4, so why would Indy possibly consider consolidating for a different 4? Hayward is perfect?


But yeah, classic Indy type move. Win about 45 games this year, extend Hayward and Myles at above market salaries and call it the win now future. Maybe make the second round but never have a chance at the ECF?

Oh no question Rick would love to play Gordon at the 4 at times to get the offensive advantages of that. I remember Dallas making some real hay out of Parsons or Barnes at the 4--offensively anyway.

I just think the Pacers still need another PF even if Hayward plays half his minutes there. They have some options in house of course, but none of them really seemed to have seized it. I thought Brissett might be headed there, but now I'm not as bullish on him.

Nesmith and Buddy Hield have been the 4’s for all of December, and that’s with healthy Brissett, Jalen Smith, and Isaiah Jackson. I think Hayward would purely be a 4. We probably would need multiple, I agree, but at the least, I would imagine that Carlisle would play Hayward as a pure 4, which is full circle for me. (I personally hated watching Hayward in high school, as he was 6” taller than most opponents, but he played purely on the perimeter….I wasn’t ready for that shift in the nba at the time )

[Scoot McGroot]

As long as his production is less than his salary, he never becomes a neutral asset.

He becomes LESS of a negative contract as the contract gets shorter, but even at the trade deadline, his production for the last third of the season is not going to be worth the payroll he takes up.

Right so if he will be LESS of a negative contract in 6 months. Why should the hornets trade him now if it is going to cost them more to move him?

The answer is that if he gets hurt, his trade value gets even more negative. They would pass on that risk to a team that is more risk-tolerant or needs toga,ble. Also, 1.5 years on a bad contract isn’t significantly different in trade value than 1.3 seasons.

But your overall point is true. Teams often wait until the deadline to move negative expirings (especially players who are out for the season with injury), because if they wait, they have eaten more of the bad salary, and it takes less assets to trade them for a productive player.

Yeah, he could stay negative. And if he may not be positive, and the team may be in the dumps, why put off rebuilding the roster and waste another 6 months or a season?

[GoBobs]

Trying to move him to save money doesn't make any sense. There is not going to be anyone better to sign as a free agent. We already have enough cap space to sign all our own guys.

We are already tanking this year. Next year we are going to need to try and get back to winning. You need some vets to balance the young guys and we won't be able to sign someone better.

If we did want to move him it would be easier when he is expiring. He might not be worth anything to other teams but no reason for us to move him unless we get something we value. Worse players making slightly less money isn't it.

[shrink]

Trying to move him to save money doesn't make any sense. There is not going to be anyone better to sign as a free agent.

Why do you think there will be no better free agent for the money than Hayward?

Even if there isn’t, cap space is a useful, tradable asset - more valuable than Hayward for a year at $31.5.

[GoBobs]

Trying to move him to save money doesn't make any sense. There is not going to be anyone better to sign as a free agent.

Why do you think there will be no better free agent for the money than Hayward?

Even if there isn’t, cap space is a useful, tradable asset - more valuable than Hayward for a year at $31.5.

2023 Free Agents

Bill Streicher-USA TODAY Sports

The talent pool of free agents in 2023 may not be much better than 2022. A lot of the top players that could enter free agency could still avoid free agency by extending with their current teams.

James Harden (player option)

Khris Middleton (player option)

Draymond Green (player option)

Kyrie Irving

Andrew Wiggins

Fred VanVleet (player option)

Myles Turner

Nikola Vucevic

Harrison Barnes

Brook Lopez

Jerami Grant

D’Angelo Russell

Christian Wood

Caris LeVert

Al Horford

Dillon Brooks

Seth Curry

Bogdan Bogdanovic (player option)

Kyle Kuzma (player option)

Jakob Poeltl

Kristaps Porzingis (player option)

RJ Barrett (restricted)

DeAndre Hunter (restricted)

Jordan Poole (restricted)

Cameron Johnson (restricted)

Tyler Herro (restricted)

Grant Williams (restricted)

All the good players get extended before they hit the market these days. The Lebron James and Kevin Durrant type free agents are a thing of the past. Also Charlotte is not a big free agent destination espically after a tanking year and there are a bunch of other teams that will have cap space.

Who was the best free agent signing of last year? Brunson? Cap space isn't worth anything anymore unless you are cheap.

[Texas Chuck]

your source is old. Several of those players already signed extensions.

[Apz]

The question I have is when does Gordon turn from a negative contract to a neutral contract?
Westbrook is 3rd highest paid player in league and his contract at 47 million seems pretty movable at times.
Hayward will be the 40th highest paid player in league next year with an expiring of 31.5 million.

So lets say for a team like Dallas...

They can acquire Hayward at deadline, pay him half his salary for second half of this year (15 million) try him out in the playoffs for a year. If he fails and Dallas hates it.... how hard is it move an expiring contract his size next year? You could make argument that his contract becomes one of Dallas better assets if they truly were willing to attach picks and go star hunting...

For Hornets, I just don't see them rushing to move him if it will cost them significantly less to move him this summer as an expiring. We aren't winning anyways, so moving him now doesn't really push the needle.

Well, i wouldnt taken wb contract from lakers without 2 unp 1sts last summer, and wouldnt do it without 1 at the deadline this year. So guess answer is his best tradevalue is next tradeline when he is about to expire, but they still would have to pay in some way, like taking back longer bad salary. Unlrss u find a team that are desperate to get capspace for 24 summer. But only 5 teams are tanking and most of the teams are operating over the cap since its the only way to stay relevant

[NYG]

So Indiana or Dallas is the answer?

[JMAC3]

Trying to move him to save money doesn't make any sense. There is not going to be anyone better to sign as a free agent.

Why do you think there will be no better free agent for the money than Hayward?

Even if there isn’t, cap space is a useful, tradable asset - more valuable than Hayward for a year at $31.5.

I am sure if a team is willing to give us 100% expirings back for Hayward then sure we will make a deal.

However, it makes no sense for us take back equally or worse deals. nor does it make sense for us to give away assets to clear the roster spot.

For instance this Hardaway and Bertans nonsense.

1. Hayward is better.
2. He is cheaper than those 2
- Mavs combo makes 35.6 this year, 34.9 next, and 32 million in year three or 21 million if we waive Bertans
- Hayward makes 31 and 31.5 the next two. So we take on 30-40 million in extra salary over next 3 years? Pass.
3. See above. He expires sooner, same time Melo is due extension.
4. Cruddy second rounders or Jaden Hardy aren't enough incentive to pay more, downgrade talent.

[Texas Chuck]

Trying to move him to save money doesn't make any sense. There is not going to be anyone better to sign as a free agent.

Why do you think there will be no better free agent for the money than Hayward?

Even if there isn’t, cap space is a useful, tradable asset - more valuable than Hayward for a year at $31.5.

I am sure if a team is willing to give us 100% expirings back for Hayward then sure we will make a deal.

However, it makes no sense for us take back equally or worse deals. nor does it make sense for us to give away assets to clear the roster spot.

For instance this Hardaway and Bertans nonsense.

1. Hayward is better.
2. He is cheaper than those 2
- Mavs combo makes 35.6 this year, 34.9 next, and 32 million in year three or 21 million if we waive Bertans
- Hayward makes 31 and 31.5 the next two. So we take on 30-40 million in extra salary over next 3 years? Pass.
3. See above. He expires sooner, same time Melo is due extension.
4. Cruddy second rounders or Jaden Hardy aren't enough incentive to pay more, downgrade talent.

Obviously Dallas can't include both. That doesn't make any sense for Charlotte.

But there is a middle ground where Dallas can offer meaningful salary relief for next year(but not total) and provide some minor incentives. Would seem to be worth at least a consideration for Charlotte.

Not sure why the focus on the most extreme offer, one that all but one poster understands already isn't actually a real option?

[Van_Trump]

Expand the trade to get rid of all big salaries

LA trades Westbrook, Lonnie Walker

Charlotte trades Hayward, Rozier, protected 1st

[basketballwacko2]

What would the Hornets want for Hayward? Which teams would make such an offer?

This will not be a popular opinion but I'd want a #1 pick from Char to take him into space or send back a minimal contract.

[basketballwacko2]

Keep in mind 8 of the 19 games Hayward played in were with Ball [Ball has played in just 12 games].

The sample size is really small [19 games with, 17 games without] and his +/- family numbers aren't great [+4.4 On/Off].

Hayward is still a positive player [I wouldnt say major but thats a subjective term] but he misses time [a lot of time] which doesn't justify his current contract.

I dont see Charlotte doing the deal unless one of the protected 1sts are coming back.

Fournier + Rose + Protected 1st which becomes 2nds for Hayward

I have 1st owed by Hornets.

It doesn't matter though what you think of the value in a vacuum.

Charlotte isn't doing the deal unless a real asset is coming back.

New York likely doesn't do the deal either but if they think Hayward gets them into the post-season, then they may consider the 1st.

Well if that's the case the only thing I really see for them to do is Hayward, and Rozier for Westbrook and picks, I'd want 27 and 29.

[BeesWax]

Expand the trade to get rid of all big salaries

LA trades Westbrook, Lonnie Walker

Charlotte trades Hayward, Rozier, protected 1st

How are the Hornets trading the two best players and a pick. Westbrook is worthless and a cancer if he doesn’t get his way.