Semi OT: Anyone lose money in the crypto crash?

[tanuki1031]

The difference is that Telsa has income, assets, and the potential to earn future revenue. Bitcoin has none of these things, only the perception of some future value. And an increase in that future value is predicated on someone else buying in at more than you bought in at, which is why by definition, Bitcoin is mathematically a greater fool scheme.



This is not true.

You are correct that money doesn't come out of thin air, it comes from people expending effort to mine raw materials, manufacture those raw materials into products that can be exchanged for goods, or by providing services that people need. Generally speaking, the economy on a whole is not negative sum, because there is an abundance of materials available, and plenty of services that people can provide that others are willing to pay for. The only utility provided by Bitcoin is the act of mining Bitcoin itself, and the transactions that can be performed as a result. If miners choose to convert that value to a fiat currency so they can... you know... buy stuff, or pay their obscene electricity bills, then Bitcoin becomes a negative sum currency. Because PoW cryptos effectively waste large amounts of electricity to produce something that is not nearly as valuable in real terms (a transaction on chain), PoW cryptos are generally negative sum.

Great post.

No its not a good post.

ROI on most PoW asics is about 6 months, and they are not negative sum. You sure say a lot about crypto without really knowing anything about crypto. The idea behind PoW is to find efficiencies in balancing fixed costs in ops. Renewable energy is where this is heading. but but crypto scam scam.

Also bitcoin is accepted all over the world to pay for things that normally you can buy with fiat. but but no one accepts scam coin.

I am not getting into crypto discussion with any of you since its not worth my time. I will leave you with this.. FTX acted as a bank/exchange that lent out depositors funds to Alameda (investment branch) and funded its own investing/sponsorships based on the value of its on FTT token. When the token did not have 1:1 backing with usd (or usdt/busd) that is when things went down hill. Imagine after a bank run your TD bank saying, "we can't provide you with your money because we do not have enough deposits in our vaults". That was what happened with FTX. It went under because it acted in bad faith with its depositors and a bank run occurred.

I know nothing about crypto at all but this description immediately reminds me of the It's Always Sunny episode where the gang issues Paddy's dollars in their attempt at a self-sustaining economy.

That reason alone reinforces my decision to stay away lol

[Dennis 37]

The value of cryto is entirely tied to the number of people willing to buy it.

Let's say I own a small factory that produces pencils and decide to sell shares. I discover no one wants to buy my shares, so is my factory and the pencils it produces, worthless? Of course not. People are buying the pencils and the land and building have value. So even if people have no interest in shares in my small pencil factory, it still has value. If people stop being interested in buying crypto, there are no assets left. No buildings, no inventory, no land, nothing.

Is there anyone, who does not own crypto, who promotes crypto as a sound investment vehicle?

[dagger]

I have a rule: I don't invest in what I can't understand. Even though a crypto-owning relative of mine tried to explain in, and I listened patiently, I didn't get the value proposition, just the greed part (buy now, it can only go up...). So I passed.

Ironically, we are moving more and more to a cashless society. I almost never handle cash, it's all on my CCs, either the plastic or digital wallet, etc.

[Clay Davis]

Ridiculous that the OTPP lost like... what, 80 million? investing in FTX when it was BARRED to Ontarians to trade on.

[Parataxis]

I have a rule: I don't invest in what I can't understand. Even though a crypto-owning relative of mine tried to explain in, and I listened patiently, I didn't get the value proposition, just the greed part (buy now, it can only go up...). So I passed.

Ironically, we are moving more and more to a cashless society. I almost never handle cash, it's all on my CCs, either the plastic or digital wallet, etc.

The thing with NFTs and other crypto is that, the more you understand it, the less you want to invest in it.

[BlackThought]

The value of cryto is entirely tied to the number of people willing to buy it.

Let's say I own a small factory that produces pencils and decide to sell shares. I discover no one wants to buy my shares, so is my factory and the pencils it produces, worthless? Of course not. People are buying the pencils and the land and building have value. So even if people have no interest in shares in my small pencil factory, it still has value. If people stop being interested in buying crypto, there are no assets left. No buildings, no inventory, no land, nothing.

Is there anyone, who does not own crypto, who promotes crypto as a sound investment vehicle?

I own crypto so I'm going to sound biased, but if someone who believes something is a sound investment but don't buy it themselves, wouldn't that make him/her seem insincere? It's like endorsing a product that you've never used.

The reason I own crypto is because that I recognize actual real world problems that decentralized blockchains can solve. The tech is still early but it provides the only answer to some of the problems that I see in the world right now.

There are more than 2 billion unbanked people in the world and a lot more who live in countries with subpar banking system and unstable local currency. These are the problems that cannot be solved by the current banking system and blockchain technology offers a solution. It still has a long way to go tech wise but there is potential there.

To put it simply, people worldwide have a hard time trusting each other therefore we have a need for a trustless system.

[ruckus]

The value of cryto is entirely tied to the number of people willing to buy it.

Let's say I own a small factory that produces pencils and decide to sell shares. I discover no one wants to buy my shares, so is my factory and the pencils it produces, worthless? Of course not. People are buying the pencils and the land and building have value. So even if people have no interest in shares in my small pencil factory, it still has value. If people stop being interested in buying crypto, there are no assets left. No buildings, no inventory, no land, nothing.

Is there anyone, who does not own crypto, who promotes crypto as a sound investment vehicle?

Yes and no.

Because of how easy it is to create a coin on different blockchains, I think you'd be correct in saying that the vast majority of cryptocurrencies have no underlying value and/or use case.

But, there are blockchains that provide immense real world value and are used right now in supply chains, logistics and finance. The potential for the technology as a whole is there. It's about separating the wheat from the chaff and seeing which ones have actual value.

[tecumseh18]

I lost money shorting Tesla.

Don't ask.

[Dennis 37]

The value of cryto is entirely tied to the number of people willing to buy it.

Let's say I own a small factory that produces pencils and decide to sell shares. I discover no one wants to buy my shares, so is my factory and the pencils it produces, worthless? Of course not. People are buying the pencils and the land and building have value. So even if people have no interest in shares in my small pencil factory, it still has value. If people stop being interested in buying crypto, there are no assets left. No buildings, no inventory, no land, nothing.

Is there anyone, who does not own crypto, who promotes crypto as a sound investment vehicle?

I own crypto so I'm going to sound biased, but if someone who believes something is a sound investment but don't buy it themselves, wouldn't that make him/her seem insincere? It's like endorsing a product that you've never used.

The reason I own crypto is because that I recognize actual real world problems that decentralized blockchains can solve. The tech is still early but it provides the only answer to some of the problems that I see in the world right now.

There are more than 2 billion unbanked people in the world and a lot more who live in countries with subpar banking system and unstable local currency. These are the problems that cannot be solved by the current banking system and blockchain technology offers a solution. It still has a long way to go tech wise but there is potential there.

To put it simply, people worldwide have a hard time trusting each other therefore we have a need for a trustless system.

Do financial advisors buy all of the stock they recommend?

My point was more aimed at the fact that the only way for crypto to rise is if people buy it based on promotion. There are no projected earnings, no dividends, and no potential product innovations. If a financial advisor is recommending crypto, what is he basing that investment advice on? Because farmers in war-torn countries don't have access to banks?

[BlackThought]

Do financial advisors buy all of the stock they recommend?

If your financial advisor tells you that a certain stock is great but they won't touch it themselves, would you buy it? I honestly don't see what your point is.

My point was more aimed at the fact that the only way for crypto to rise is if people buy it based on promotion. There are no projected earnings, no dividends, and no potential product innovations. If a financial advisor is recommending crypto, what is he basing that investment advice on? Because farmers in war-torn countries don't have access to banks?

I think you answered your own question.

Watch on YouTube

Heres a Ted talk on why not having access to banks is a major problem for a significant number of people in the world. This video is 8 years old and that problem has not gotten better in the past 8 years, I actually think it got worse. Maybe a few more people got access to banks but due to inflation a lot more people now live in places with unstable local fiat.

Again, I don't blame you for your lack of knowledge of what a blockchain can do. This is part of the adoption process and crypto as a whole need to do better to educate the masses.

[brownbobcat]

There are more than 2 billion unbanked people in the world and a lot more who live in countries with subpar banking system and unstable local currency. These are the problems that cannot be solved by the current banking system and blockchain technology offers a solution. It still has a long way to go tech wise but there is potential there.

To put it simply, people worldwide have a hard time trusting each other therefore we have a need for a trustless system.

Trust and currency stability have hardly been the hallmarks of crypto. Furthermore, it's not really clear how holding cryptocurrency is actually a way to invest in the blockchain technology itself. The "return" is entirely based on holding a disproportionate share of a finite currency.

[BlackThought]

There are more than 2 billion unbanked people in the world and a lot more who live in countries with subpar banking system and unstable local currency. These are the problems that cannot be solved by the current banking system and blockchain technology offers a solution. It still has a long way to go tech wise but there is potential there.

To put it simply, people worldwide have a hard time trusting each other therefore we have a need for a trustless system.

Trust and currency stability have hardly been the hallmarks of crypto. Furthermore, it's not really clear how holding cryptocurrency is actually a way to invest in the blockchain technology itself. The "return" is entirely based on holding a disproportionate share of a finite currency.

This is a very common critcism and I feel that it's due to people being confused by crytocurrency's price violatility. At the core of it these are just different types of software that are trying to solve the same problem, to improve the current financial infrastructure so that it can be more inclusive and fair.

Obviously there are many coins that are created by people that are not trying to solve the problem but only wanted to make a quick buck. But that's par for the course in any new technology.

It's also very acceptable at least in my opinion for someone to not recognize the problem that crypto is attempting to solve to be a problem at all. For example if everyone in the world made the same minimum wage then most of us can't afford iphones and nikes. Is it a problem that some people live in poverty? The answer is yes and no. It's a problem that a lot of us would like to solve but you wouldn't want to solve it right away if it means people have to give up their luxuries.

[WetLikeWater]

2023 is the year!

[LoveMyRaps]

I lost money shorting Tesla.

Don't ask.

Wait... HOW? Don't tell me you went short this past week...

[KL78192020]

There are more than 2 billion unbanked people in the world and a lot more who live in countries with subpar banking system and unstable local currency. These are the problems that cannot be solved by the current banking system and blockchain technology offers a solution. It still has a long way to go tech wise but there is potential there.

To put it simply, people worldwide have a hard time trusting each other therefore we have a need for a trustless system.

Trust and currency stability have hardly been the hallmarks of crypto. Furthermore, it's not really clear how holding cryptocurrency is actually a way to invest in the blockchain technology itself. The "return" is entirely based on holding a disproportionate share of a finite currency.

This is a very common critcism and I feel that it's due to people being confused by crytocurrency's price violatility. At the core of it these are just different types of software that are trying to solve the same problem, to improve the current financial infrastructure so that it can be more inclusive and fair.

Obviously there are many coins that are created by people that are not trying to solve the problem but only wanted to make a quick buck. But that's par for the course in any new technology.

It's also very acceptable at least in my opinion for someone to not recognize the problem that crypto is attempting to solve to be a problem at all. For example if everyone in the world made the same minimum wage then most of us can't afford iphones and nikes. Is it a problem that some people live in poverty? The answer is yes and no. It's a problem that a lot of us would like to solve but you wouldn't want to solve it right away if it means people have to give up their luxuries.

Why would anyone in the Western world want anything to do with crypto as a financial system. BTC can only process 7 TPS thats terrible, Visa is at 24,000 TPS. Most advanced economy have a very stable financial/banking system, crypto is the opposite of that, looks like the experiment isn't working to well in Ecuador either. Maybe it works out for other third world countries, but there is no reason for anyone in the West to use it.

BTC also lost 65% of its value over a year, I'd much rather have CND or USD as my primary mode of finance.

[BlackThought]

Why would anyone in the Western world want anything to do with crypto as a financial system. BTC can only process 7 TPS thats terrible, Visa is at 24,000 TPS. Most advanced economy have a very stable financial/banking system, crypto is the opposite of that, looks like the experiment isn't working to well in Ecuador either. Maybe it works out for other third world countries, but there is no reason for anyone in the West to use it.

BTC also lost 65% of its value over a year, I'd much rather have CND or USD as my primary mode of finance.

I don't think you understand what I said. If you live in a place with a working banking system then obviously you have no need for bitcoin or any crypto related transaction system for local daily use. Although if you want to wire money overseas, I would use stablecoins over banks anyday. I can send 100k USD in stablecoins to anybody in the world(as long as they have internet) and have it arrive within minutes and only pay less than 50 cents in transaction fee. Can you do that with your bank?

Like I said, theres about a quarter to 1/3 of the human population that have a problem with banking and crypto offers a solution for them. Well, at its current form I believe it's still too difficult to use for most people but I do see a path forward where blockchains can solve this problem. Also besides blockchains, I don't see anyone out there offering another solution to this problem. The current way people are doing things isn't working. Feel free to offer another solution if you have it.

And it's not Ecuador, it's El Salvador, but you're right, the experiment hasn't been working too well there but I don't see how that changes anything about the future of the tech.

Moreover crypto is a lot more than just bitcoin. There are plenty of blockchains that scales better than bitcoin but even bitcoin have scaling solutions that people are working on. It's just software, it can be improved.

[Kevin Willis]

There are more than 2 billion unbanked people in the world and a lot more who live in countries with subpar banking system and unstable local currency. These are the problems that cannot be solved by the current banking system and blockchain technology offers a solution. It still has a long way to go tech wise but there is potential there.

To put it simply, people worldwide have a hard time trusting each other therefore we have a need for a trustless system.

Trust and currency stability have hardly been the hallmarks of crypto. Furthermore, it's not really clear how holding cryptocurrency is actually a way to invest in the blockchain technology itself. The "return" is entirely based on holding a disproportionate share of a finite currency.

This is a very common critcism and I feel that it's due to people being confused by crytocurrency's price violatility. At the core of it these are just different types of software that are trying to solve the same problem, to improve the current financial infrastructure so that it can be more inclusive and fair.

Obviously there are many coins that are created by people that are not trying to solve the problem but only wanted to make a quick buck. But that's par for the course in any new technology.

It's also very acceptable at least in my opinion for someone to not recognize the problem that crypto is attempting to solve to be a problem at all. For example if everyone in the world made the same minimum wage then most of us can't afford iphones and nikes. Is it a problem that some people live in poverty? The answer is yes and no. It's a problem that a lot of us would like to solve but you wouldn't want to solve it right away if it means people have to give up their luxuries.

Some of your statements may be true but it's also scary. The fact that people would encourage inequality so they can get cheap kicks and tech is heartbreaking and weirdly uplifting at the same time. If you consider the advancements of China (manufacturing) and India (outsourcing) has increased their world standing. However in the future we will reach a more equalitarian lifestyle and not trying to make slaves of someone, somewhere.

Blockchain, crypto and bitcoin are usually lumped together and they shouldn't be. The concept of blockchain is not really knew and the ledger concept will have a strong future once fully developed but it's not there yet. Hopefully crypto is not the only thing it's known for. The concept of crypto as a currency is novel but it's too infant. It needs more, not less, regulation. It's also needs more acceptance. If you're poor I wouldn't suggest doing crypto because you're most likely living day to day and need access to money. With price fluctuation, it's not stable enough. Some banks are managed properly - true. Still less risky unless they keep the money under the bed. Bitcoin - whatever. Some might be legit but people don't usually invest in those. The high rising ponzi scheme types are what people hop on for the quick buck and until these bad actors are regulated out, it's just a spec stock you put a little money. The miners are the ones that make money and their revenues tend to be stable but when the currency is so volatile they also become a spec play.

It's interesting to read people's different opinion on what they think about it I understand more why it's so volatile based off people's mindsets, their goals and what they think will be the future.

[refshateRaps]

Currency is a main control mechanism of slavery and everything digital is part of a deceptive slave system upgrade.

Happy New Year to all the little fish 'ballers' ( or whatever buzz words are being seeded by the mainstream music sell-outs for us to worship that slave ship) swimming as freely as possible in the slowly shrinking F'd up tank we're in. Big change should come quick here into 2023 for those who can participate in the market.

Wishing all great luck in the devils playground & more importantly great health in 2023.

[Jstock12]

At one point I had quite a bit of money on FTX. Luckily, at the time of their shutdown my account there was pretty much empty. But I know of people who have hundreds of thousands stuck there and likely will never see 90% of it ever again.

I'd be shocked if there weren't any people who suicided or seriously contemplating it after what Sam Bankman-Fried and his crew did to them. SBF destroyed many lives and families.

[Dennis 37]

Currency is the control mechanism of slavery and everything digital is part of a deceptive slave system upgrade.

Anyhow, enjoy the bottom of the markets while it lasts...Change should come quick here into 2023 and be absolute insanity.

Happy New Year to all the little fish swimming as freely as possible in the slowly shrinking F'd up tank we're in.

I found those Kyle Lowry commercials of last year cringeworthy. The one where he kept missing his shot and that we shouldn't miss our shot at crypto. Hopefully no one purchased crypto because they saw Kyle in an ad.

A Ukraine News live stream I watch had this to say at the strike of 12. ""It's the New Year, and absolutely nothing has changed!"