Semi OT: Anyone lose money in the crypto crash?

[Dennis 37]

Ridiculous that the OTPP lost like... what, 80 million? investing in FTX when it was BARRED to Ontarians to trade on.

OTPP is not known for risky investing. Someone is probably being demoted.

[Jstock12]

Ridiculous that the OTPP lost like... what, 80 million? investing in FTX when it was BARRED to Ontarians to trade on.

OTPP is not known for risky investing. Someone is probably being demoted.

That said, it's still just a drop in the ocean for them.

[KL78192020]

Why would anyone in the Western world want anything to do with crypto as a financial system. BTC can only process 7 TPS thats terrible, Visa is at 24,000 TPS. Most advanced economy have a very stable financial/banking system, crypto is the opposite of that, looks like the experiment isn't working to well in Ecuador either. Maybe it works out for other third world countries, but there is no reason for anyone in the West to use it.

BTC also lost 65% of its value over a year, I'd much rather have CND or USD as my primary mode of finance.

I don't think you understand what I said. If you live in a place with a working banking system then obviously you have no need for bitcoin or any crypto related transaction system for local daily use. Although if you want to wire money overseas, I would use stablecoins over banks anyday. I can send 100k USD in stablecoins to anybody in the world(as long as they have internet) and have it arrive within minutes and only pay less than 50 cents in transaction fee. Can you do that with your bank?

Like I said, theres about a quarter to 1/3 of the human population that have a problem with banking and crypto offers a solution for them. Well, at its current form I believe it's still too difficult to use for most people but I do see a path forward where blockchains can solve this problem. Also besides blockchains, I don't see anyone out there offering another solution to this problem. The current way people are doing things isn't working. Feel free to offer another solution if you have it.

And it's not Ecuador, it's El Salvador, but you're right, the experiment hasn't been working too well there but I don't see how that changes anything about the future of the tech.

Moreover crypto is a lot more than just bitcoin. There are plenty of blockchains that scales better than bitcoin but even bitcoin have scaling solutions that people are working on. It's just software, it can be improved.

I said there is no use for it in development Western countries sending money abroad is not a high use case scenario is not high on my list of uses, maybe it can help in third world countries, but like you said, its not working out in one of those 3rd world countries El Salvador.

The debit/credit system is a robust system. Even ETH can only do 20 TPS. lol its a joke, something I would never invest in.

How have you invested in crypto based on your use cases?

[Jstock12]

Why would anyone in the Western world want anything to do with crypto as a financial system. BTC can only process 7 TPS thats terrible, Visa is at 24,000 TPS. Most advanced economy have a very stable financial/banking system, crypto is the opposite of that, looks like the experiment isn't working to well in Ecuador either. Maybe it works out for other third world countries, but there is no reason for anyone in the West to use it.

BTC also lost 65% of its value over a year, I'd much rather have CND or USD as my primary mode of finance.

I don't think you understand what I said. If you live in a place with a working banking system then obviously you have no need for bitcoin or any crypto related transaction system for local daily use. Although if you want to wire money overseas, I would use stablecoins over banks anyday. I can send 100k USD in stablecoins to anybody in the world(as long as they have internet) and have it arrive within minutes and only pay less than 50 cents in transaction fee. Can you do that with your bank?

Like I said, theres about a quarter to 1/3 of the human population that have a problem with banking and crypto offers a solution for them. Well, at its current form I believe it's still too difficult to use for most people but I do see a path forward where blockchains can solve this problem. Also besides blockchains, I don't see anyone out there offering another solution to this problem. The current way people are doing things isn't working. Feel free to offer another solution if you have it.

And it's not Ecuador, it's El Salvador, but you're right, the experiment hasn't been working too well there but I don't see how that changes anything about the future of the tech.

Moreover crypto is a lot more than just bitcoin. There are plenty of blockchains that scales better than bitcoin but even bitcoin have scaling solutions that people are working on. It's just software, it can be improved.

I said there is no use for it in development Western countries sending money abroad is not a high use case scenario is not high on my list of uses, maybe it can help in third world countries, but like you said, its not working out in one of those 3rd world countries El Salvador.

The debit/credit system is a robust system. Even ETH can only do 20 TPS. lol its a joke, something I would never invest in.

How have you invested in crypto based on your use cases?

ETH 2.0 100,000 TPS
SOL 50,000 TPS

[BlackThought]

I said there is no use for it in development Western countries sending money abroad is not a high use case scenario is not high on my list of uses, maybe it can help in third world countries, but like you said, its not working out in one of those 3rd world countries El Salvador.

The debit/credit system is a robust system. Even ETH can only do 20 TPS. lol its a joke, something I would never invest in.

How have you invested in crypto based on your use cases?

That's exactly what I said in the beginning though. It's a solution for the unbanked. Are you unbanked? If not why are you going on about not being able to find use for it. It's not for you to use but there are 2 billion people that might be able to use it.

The problem with the TPS is silly imo. These are software that can be improved upon. Ethereum has a plan on improving on scalability. It's not something that's set in stone and can't change. In fact, a major change happened just last year. Did you notice that GPU prices are down and wondered why? Ethereum upgraded so it no longer needed video cards. These are new tech, people are working on improving it as we speak. You're like the guy who sees the first engine and think it can never run faster than Bella the horse.

There are already multiple blockchains that are faster than ethereum right now. But are any of them perfect? No. But can they improve? Most definitely.

Again, I don't care what people invest in, it's your money. I am only interested in clearing up some misconceptions that people have about this technology because it is new.

[Parataxis]

I said there is no use for it in development Western countries sending money abroad is not a high use case scenario is not high on my list of uses, maybe it can help in third world countries, but like you said, its not working out in one of those 3rd world countries El Salvador.

The debit/credit system is a robust system. Even ETH can only do 20 TPS. lol its a joke, something I would never invest in.

How have you invested in crypto based on your use cases?

That's exactly what I said in the beginning though. It's a solution for the unbanked. Are you unbanked? If not why are you going on about not being able to find use for it. It's not for you to use but there are 2 billion people that might be able to use it..

How many of the global unbanked also have consistent and reliable internet service?

[BlackThought]

I said there is no use for it in development Western countries sending money abroad is not a high use case scenario is not high on my list of uses, maybe it can help in third world countries, but like you said, its not working out in one of those 3rd world countries El Salvador.

The debit/credit system is a robust system. Even ETH can only do 20 TPS. lol its a joke, something I would never invest in.

How have you invested in crypto based on your use cases?

That's exactly what I said in the beginning though. It's a solution for the unbanked. Are you unbanked? If not why are you going on about not being able to find use for it. It's not for you to use but there are 2 billion people that might be able to use it..

How many of the global unbanked also have consistent and reliable internet service?

Much easier to improve internet service than solving government corruption and instability which leads to many cases of the debasement of local currency.

[KL78192020]

I said there is no use for it in development Western countries sending money abroad is not a high use case scenario is not high on my list of uses, maybe it can help in third world countries, but like you said, its not working out in one of those 3rd world countries El Salvador.

The debit/credit system is a robust system. Even ETH can only do 20 TPS. lol its a joke, something I would never invest in.

How have you invested in crypto based on your use cases?

That's exactly what I said in the beginning though. It's a solution for the unbanked. Are you unbanked? If not why are you going on about not being able to find use for it. It's not for you to use but there are 2 billion people that might be able to use it.

The problem with the TPS is silly imo. These are software that can be improved upon. Ethereum has a plan on improving on scalability. It's not something that's set in stone and can't change. In fact, a major change happened just last year. Did you notice that GPU prices are down and wondered why? Ethereum upgraded so it no longer needed video cards. These are new tech, people are working on improving it as we speak. You're like the guy who sees the first engine and think it can never run faster than Bella the horse.

There are already multiple blockchains that are faster than ethereum right now. But are any of them perfect? No. But can they improve? Most definitely.

Again, I don't care what people invest in, it's your money. I am only interested in clearing up some misconceptions that people have about this technology because it is new.

The premise of this thread was asking "Anyone lose money in crypto", and that is what I'm discussing. Its a useless investment, maybe I'm clueless, do you own crypto? Which ones? When will it fulfill the need for the unbanked?

[BlackThought]

The premise of this thread was asking "Anyone lose money in crypto", and that is what I'm discussing. Its a useless investment, maybe I'm clueless, do you own crypto? Which ones? When will it fulfill the need for the unbanked?

I don't know if you are clueless but you certainly are having a hard time following a discussion. You quoted me originally in a post where I was talking about the problems that crypto is attempting to solve, which is to provide a solution for the unbanked. You jumped into the discussion and tried to convince people that you, as a person living in an area with a fully functioning banking system, have no use for this technology. I'm just saying nobody is telling you to use crypto over your credit card. But someone who lives in rural areas in Cambodia or Sudan might be able to use this.

Is it ready to solve this problem? No, not at its current form. But is the tech moving in the right direction, I believe so but you're free to your opinion.

[refshateRaps]

DOGE looking absolutely coiling here coming off the Sam Bankman Frie-mason & co. sick public ritual scare event.

Fully expect groomed insider Elon Freemuskon to take DOGE mainstream with twitter ties.

Just my thoughts, not advice....

But guaranteed to age far-far-far better then ones favorite controlled influencer who sold out to the club or a contract or were groomed young to reap rewards by deceiving the masses.

Success to all my RealGm brothers & sisters in 2023!!

[will]

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MAN!

[shmoosicle]

DOGE looking absolutely coiled here coming off the Sam Bankman Frie-mason & co. sick public ritual scare event.

Fully expect groomed insider Elon Freemuskon to take DOGE mainstream this year with twitter ties.

Just my thoughts, not advice....

But guaranteed to age far-far-far better then ones favorite controlled influencer who sold out to the club or a contract or were groomed young to reap rewards by deceiving the masses.

Success to all my RealGm brothers & sisters in 2023!!

Can someone translate this for someone who doesn't follow crypto, I didn't understand half of that.

[deck]

The reason I own crypto is because that I recognize actual real world problems that decentralized blockchains can solve. The tech is still early but it provides the only answer to some of the problems that I see in the world right now.

I agree with this statement. The problem is that the utility of a decentralized block chain does not need to be tied to a speculative currency. This is the classic bitcoin has value because blockchain has value argument which is pretty tenuous in my opinion.

There are more than 2 billion unbanked people in the world and a lot more who live in countries with subpar banking system and unstable local currency. These are the problems that cannot be solved by the current banking system and blockchain technology offers a solution. It still has a long way to go tech wise but there is potential there.

Bitcoin doesn't really do much to help the unbanked. It doesn't providing banking services, it only provides peer-to-peer transaction services, something that is already available to pretty much anyone, even to the unbanked. If you are tech savvy enough to transact on a blockchain, you have the same transnational capabilities available to you today, and likely at a significantly cheap price.

I'll conceded that not having to go through forex is compelling for people looking to transact across currencies, but to suggest that bitcoin is solving for banking is a stretch.

Perhaps smart contracts coupled with digital identity verification could grow in this space, but this is partly why I am disparaging of bitcoin in particular vs something like etherium, as bitcoin from a technology standpoint doesn't have the capabilities necessary to provide banking services to the unbanked. It will always require a higher level chain or a centralized organization (ie. a bank) operating on top of bitcoin in order to provide those services.

With regards to solving for unstable local currencies, as it stands right now, most crypto currencies are far less stable. Perhaps this improves with time. But consider, do you actually want bitcoin to be stabilized as a currency if you are using it as an investment vehicle? Bitcoin saw huge value increases through the pandemic because people were speculating on it's value relative to real world goods. The moment bitcoin is actually used to buy goods, and starts functioning as an actual currency, it will no longer see the exponential price increases we have seen in the past. If you are using bitcoin as an investment, you absolutely do not want it to be used as a currency.

To put it simply, people worldwide have a hard time trusting each other therefore we have a need for a trustless system.

A low trust system is by requirement a low privacy system. I agree blockchain as a technology has value, but I think eventually people will come to realize the cost of that value in terms of handing over even more information to big tech than we do today. The dirty secret of web3 is that it actually gives even more power to corporations over our day to day lives.

[deck]

DOGE looking absolutely coiled here coming off the Sam Bankman Frie-mason & co. sick public ritual scare event.

Fully expect groomed insider Elon Freemuskon to take DOGE mainstream this year with twitter ties.

Just my thoughts, not advice....

But guaranteed to age far-far-far better then ones favorite controlled influencer who sold out to the club or a contract or were groomed young to reap rewards by deceiving the masses.

Success to all my RealGm brothers & sisters in 2023!!

Can someone translate this for someone who doesn't follow crypto, I didn't understand half of that.

This dude loves crypto, and expects Elon Musk with take DOGE Coin to the proverbial moon.

[KL78192020]

The premise of this thread was asking "Anyone lose money in crypto", and that is what I'm discussing. Its a useless investment, maybe I'm clueless, do you own crypto? Which ones? When will it fulfill the need for the unbanked?

I don't know if you are clueless but you certainly are having a hard time following a discussion. You quoted me originally in a post where I was talking about the problems that crypto is attempting to solve, which is to provide a solution for the unbanked. You jumped into the discussion and tried to convince people that you, as a person living in an area with a fully functioning banking system, have no use for this technology. I'm just saying nobody is telling you to use crypto over your credit card. But someone who lives in rural areas in Cambodia or Sudan might be able to use this.

Is it ready to solve this problem? No, not at its current form. But is the tech moving in the right direction, I believe so but you're free to your opinion.

The unbanked have already found other ways to banking. They don't need crypto trash for banking.

“The magic of mobile banking lies in its simplicity and low cost,” said Rosengard. “All you need to get started is an old-school flip phone, available for less than $10 U.S. dollars, and a banking SIM card. Then you can send and receive money over text message, no smartphone or special app required. Customers mostly rely on the service for person-to-person (P2P) payments, but are increasingly using it to pay merchants, utility companies, and other businesses.”

Rosengard’s research finds that mobile banking has transformed how Kenyans manage their money. On Safaricom’s M-PESA, which is by far the most popular service in the country, 19 million users now send 15 billion Kenyan shillings in payments each day – the equivalent of $150 million U.S. dollars. This growth has allowed Kenya to zoom past other countries when it comes to financial inclusion. The share of people with access to a financial account in Kenya is more than double that of other sub-Saharan African countries and almost triple the typical rate in low-income countries worldwide.

This mobile banking revolution has also created greater financial stability for Kenyan families. A 2014 study found that people using M-PESA were able to handle major hits to their income – such as a bad harvest, a job loss, or a failing business – without having to curb their household’s consumption. The primary way they weathered these storms was by getting help from family and friends through funds sent over M-PESA. In comparison, the study found that Kenyans who did not use M-PESA had to reduce their household spending by an average of 7% in response to financial challenges.

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty-research/policy-topics/public-finance/how-mobile-banking-transforming-africa

[libertyYYZ]

DOGE looking absolutely coiled here coming off the Sam Bankman Frie-mason & co. sick public ritual scare event.

Fully expect groomed insider Elon Freemuskon to take DOGE mainstream this year with twitter ties.

Just my thoughts, not advice....

But guaranteed to age far-far-far better then ones favorite controlled influencer who sold out to the club or a contract or were groomed young to reap rewards by deceiving the masses.

Success to all my RealGm brothers & sisters in 2023!!

Can someone translate this for someone who doesn't follow crypto, I didn't understand half of that.

Translation: A fool and his money are soon parted.

[BlackThought]

The reason I own crypto is because that I recognize actual real world problems that decentralized blockchains can solve. The tech is still early but it provides the only answer to some of the problems that I see in the world right now.

I agree with this statement. The problem is that the utility of a decentralized block chain does not need to be tied to a speculative currency. This is the classic bitcoin has value because blockchain has value argument which is pretty tenuous in my opinion.

There are more than 2 billion unbanked people in the world and a lot more who live in countries with subpar banking system and unstable local currency. These are the problems that cannot be solved by the current banking system and blockchain technology offers a solution. It still has a long way to go tech wise but there is potential there.

Bitcoin doesn't really do much to help the unbanked. It doesn't providing banking services, it only provides peer-to-peer transaction services, something that is already available to pretty much anyone, even to the unbanked. If you are tech savvy enough to transact on a blockchain, you have the same transnational capabilities available to you today, and likely at a significantly cheap price.

I'll conceded that not having to go through forex is compelling for people looking to transact across currencies, but to suggest that bitcoin is solving for banking is a stretch.

Perhaps smart contracts coupled with digital identity verification could grow in this space, but this is partly why I am disparaging of bitcoin in particular vs something like etherium, as bitcoin from a technology standpoint doesn't have the capabilities necessary to provide banking services to the unbanked. It will always require a higher level chain or a centralized organization (ie. a bank) operating on top of bitcoin in order to provide those services.

With regards to solving for unstable local currencies, as it stands right now, most crypto currencies are far less stable. Perhaps this improves with time. But consider, do you actually want bitcoin to be stabilized as a currency if you are using it as an investment vehicle? Bitcoin saw huge value increases through the pandemic because people were speculating on it's value relative to real world goods. The moment bitcoin is actually used to buy goods, and starts functioning as an actual currency, it will no longer see the exponential price increases we have seen in the past. If you are using bitcoin as an investment, you absolutely do not want it to be used as a currency.

What I said originally wasn't really referring to just bitcoin, I was referring to crypto as a whole. Like you said, Bitcoin itself is limited because it cannot do smart contracts, therefore the banking will have to happen on another chain.

The cause of the current banking problem in third world countries is that the local governments cannot be trusted with their monetary policy. With stablecoins while it's still centralized, the control is no longer with the unstable local governments but with more stable governments like the US. Some people believes that the FED also belongs to the same group that can't be trusted and that's where Bitcoin comes in as a replacement reserve currency to the USD. Personally I am not part of that crowd but I recognize that camp of people is large enough and growing, thus bitcoin will likely rise in value given time.

As for how bitcoin as a currency will function and affect people's spending habits, I am not an economist so I am not going to pretend to know what I'm talking about. That said, I don't believe crypto as a whole relies on bitcoin being successful.

[refshateRaps]

Crypto showtime looks about ready to set off heavy here for those not scared or scarred from the sick freemason ritual...

Good luck for those RealGMrs with skin in.

They don't want to see regular peeps win BIG when its showtime. But I do. They know most cant see the depth of deception even when mocked openly. But I do.

I sincerely hope All here get lots of that temporary freedom and I pray for the future.

[refshateRaps]

Quiet here now. Odd? Hope some of y'all are using the public ritual to make big time money?

BTC saw the 1st leg up...
17K to 21.5K since last post
15.5K-21.5K since OP called bottom

2nd leg should be a bit bigger and likely very soon in the coming days/weeks (30-36K area maybe?)

3rd leg after that one should be simply massive

Most retail is paralyzed, doubtful or tapped out of the game... Kinda expecting the first 2 legs up should be done fairly quick to get eyes back in setting-up a massive FOMO leg to sell into the herd of retail buyers.

But what do I know? Just playing in the devils playground the way I see it.

Best of luck to all here

[anotherhomer]

Quiet here now. Odd? Hope some of y'all are using the public ritual to make big time money?

BTC saw the 1st leg up...
17K to 21.5K since last post
15.5K-21.5K since OP called bottom

2nd leg should be a bit bigger and likely very soon in the coming days/weeks (30-36K area maybe?)

3rd leg after that one should be simply massive

Most retail is paralyzed, doubtful or tapped out of the game... Kinda expecting the first 2 legs up should be done fairly quick to get eyes back in setting-up a massive FOMO leg to sell into the herd of retail buyers.

But what do I know? Just playing in the devils playground the way I see it.

Best of luck to all here

hmm.....i'm no financial expert, nor have any idea where it could go.

There's three scenarios in the next few months I think (USD by the way)
1) Shoot up to 25k and beyond
Quite unlikely....the economic outlook isn't too good honestly, and really vulnerable to bad news

2) Hover between 18-24k
Good chance it will. Bottom could possibly be in, so it may ping pong approx this range

3) Drop below 18k
ya crap hits the fan completely...absolutely.....

Note: There's a lot of risks. the industry as a whole is more mature, but very volatile.
Please note what you can afford to lose, and act accordingly.