Game 38: Phoenix Suns (20-17) @ New York Knickerbockers (19-18) l Monday l 1:00pm l BSAZ

[Sunlight]

Where is the magic CP3 make C position guys better what they really are. That magic off right now.

[grumpysaddle]

Ouch! He still can’t compete with Tony Snell.

Pretty sure the Bucks still won that game though. Which is an improvement on what the Suns are doing.

You were almost right

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201702240MIL.html

14 point loss way better than 19. 5 whole points better.

[sunsbum]

Where is the magic CP3 make C position guys better what they really are. That magic off right now.

Where is the magic that C position makes the C position guys better? That magic has been off for 4 years right now.

[Paradise]

What’s happening out there?

[Jarlaxle0204]

This team is unwatchable without Devin Booker.

Need I remind you Booker was playing against the Mavs in game 7?

What does that have to do with what I said? I'm aware he played in game 7. He also played in games 1 thru 6.

He's clearly the best player on this team and I don't think it's particularly close. I believe we've won one game since he's gone down and most of the games haven't been close.

[TeamTragic]

What’s happening out there?

Monty has lost the team and obviously new ownership has their opinions.

[Frank Lee]

-38….
Wowser

Who would have thought we’d see such a decline

[KLEON]

Where is the magic CP3 make C position guys better what they really are. That magic off right now.

How can CP3 make any kind of magic when he has Chuckles playing the center position

[Jesus_H_Macy]

Blaming CP3 for this trash team is unacceptable. Monty still hasn't figured out the Mavericks and Jones lets Crowder sit at home getting paid for doing nothing.

I can't really blame CP3 given how hard he played the last couple seasons and turned us into a bottom feeder to a great team, but that doesn't mean he doesn't suck now, or at least has VASTLY declined. He turns it over far more, can't hit his midrange shots, basically has become a spot up 3pt shooter, and had a good stretch, but not sure that will last, his defense has drastically declined, etc. So given that he turned us from a bottom feeder into a great team, it only stands to reason when he is no longer himself we go back to that bottom feeder.

Of course we have had some improvement from others, but not enough to make us a top tier team with this version of Paul..yet people expect it.

I (and many of us) have mentioned ever since we got Paul that we desperately need a PGoTF but Jones seemingly didn't realize that.

Obviously we saw not just Book is the savior either given how we played even with him once we hit top tier teams and got crushe (Dallas the 2nd time after luckily making a huge comeback in the first game, Boston, and then the Pelicans)..

However, once we get Booker AND Cam back it definitely helps because we have many more options making it tougher on opposing defenses.

Still doesn't change the fact we need to find a PG big time, or at least let Book take over PG duties next year with Bridges at 2, Cam at 3, and maybe a 4 who can make plays, defend, rebound and hit the 3.

Agree with pretty much your entire post! But am quite concerned by the idea of having Book be our PGOTF with his repetitive leg injuries, etc as I'm highly concerned this compound these injury issues and will only further diminish/ reduce his career sustainability and overall durability and would prefer to have him moved back off the ball and with less pressure IF we can find a high end PGOTF talent/ initiator!

Book at PG can be a nice change of pace, especially since it allows us to play a big lineup, but he is maximized as a heat-seeking 2. We need a solid PG to uncork the best version of Book. I hate to keep what-ifing but it's just inexplicable why we didn't take Haliburton...it was the obvious pick at the time. When you combine that whiff with what we ended up doing with who we did pick, it's almost enough by itself to justify **** canning Jones. There are multiple reasons to be excited about the new ownership, but one of them is that if Jones and Monty don't pull their heads out of their asses they'll be gone. On the other hand, we could do a lot worse than them...but Ishbia's background gives me hope he'll be able to make good hires whenever that time eventually comes.

[kennydorglas]

#tankforwemby at full steam.
Give us more first option touches to deandre.
He'll get us a nice prospect

[bwgood77]

I can't really blame CP3 given how hard he played the last couple seasons and turned us into a bottom feeder to a great team, but that doesn't mean he doesn't suck now, or at least has VASTLY declined. He turns it over far more, can't hit his midrange shots, basically has become a spot up 3pt shooter, and had a good stretch, but not sure that will last, his defense has drastically declined, etc. So given that he turned us from a bottom feeder into a great team, it only stands to reason when he is no longer himself we go back to that bottom feeder.

Of course we have had some improvement from others, but not enough to make us a top tier team with this version of Paul..yet people expect it.

I (and many of us) have mentioned ever since we got Paul that we desperately need a PGoTF but Jones seemingly didn't realize that.

Obviously we saw not just Book is the savior either given how we played even with him once we hit top tier teams and got crushe (Dallas the 2nd time after luckily making a huge comeback in the first game, Boston, and then the Pelicans)..

However, once we get Booker AND Cam back it definitely helps because we have many more options making it tougher on opposing defenses.

Still doesn't change the fact we need to find a PG big time, or at least let Book take over PG duties next year with Bridges at 2, Cam at 3, and maybe a 4 who can make plays, defend, rebound and hit the 3.

Agree with pretty much your entire post! But am quite concerned by the idea of having Book be our PGOTF with his repetitive leg injuries, etc as I'm highly concerned this compound these injury issues and will only further diminish/ reduce his career sustainability and overall durability and would prefer to have him moved back off the ball and with less pressure IF we can find a high end PGOTF talent/ initiator!

Book at PG can be a nice change of pace, especially since it allows us to play a big lineup, but he is maximized as a heat-seeking 2. We need a solid PG to uncork the best version of Book. I hate to keep what-ifing but it's just inexplicable why we didn't take Haliburton...it was the obvious pick at the time. When you combine that whiff with what we ended up doing with who we did pick, it's almost enough by itself to justify **** canning Jones. There are multiple reasons to be excited about the new ownership, but one of them is that if Jones and Monty don't pull their heads out of their asses they'll be gone. On the other hand, we could do a lot worse than them...but Ishbia's background gives me hope he'll be able to make good hires whenever that time eventually comes.

It's hard because it's hard to find a good PG....we had two perfect options for backcourt mates with Book in the draft in Haliburton and Bane...both will be all stars. Now, I think the best chance you have a really solid player and a cost effective one, is the draft, because you know you have a draft pick.

With trades, so many things have to align...and you usually would end up with a player another team doesn't want anyway, so it's very hard to find a true difference maker at PG...but if you have great scouts, you could in the draft...or even a combo guard with Book. I would look at players that are not raw...high iq guys who can shoot and handle...and have decent size, and play some D...whether they are a 1 or 2.

Now if you are not focused on the draft or if those guys are not available, I think in trade it's probably easier to find a PF.

It is hard because our lineups with Paul/Book/Bridges/Cam/Ayton destroy people.....so it's hard to want to go away from that in some respects, but on the other hand, with teams getting bigger and bigger, we need more muscle inside to help Ayton with the boards, and boxing out guys when they have multiple bigs working against Ayton....in that scenario you could slide Book/Mikal/Cam to 1/2/3.

I would want an athletic 4 who could run though...and shoot...so it's tough to find some tough, physical stretch 4. Again, this is why I bring up Vanderbilt. He is all those things...and is young. I like Olynyk for different reasons. For one he is on absolute fire from 3 but for two, even though he's not a real tough guy, he has no problem getting physical and really under the skin of other teams and flustering them...and he is just a scrappy player...I think we need that.

I can totally understand why they don't want a player like Rui. People seem to wish we did that..I don't care if a guy scores 20 against us...we need some toughness and/or playmaking....a pg/combo guard or physical PF who hopefully can hit the 3. Those are my targets in trade, in MLE signing and in the draft.

[garrick]

Payne needs to start so much more pace to the game Paul just isn't it anymore, hopefully Monty makes that call. CP3 numbers still look OK but if you watch the games it tells you a completely different, he just doesn't have it, team operates like a snail with him on the floor, fine for last 2 minutes of quarters but that's about it

Blaming CP3 for this trash team is unacceptable. Monty still hasn't figured out the Mavericks and Jones lets Crowder sit at home getting paid for doing nothing.

I can't really blame CP3 given how hard he played the last couple seasons and turned us into a bottom feeder to a great team, but that doesn't mean he doesn't suck now, or at least has VASTLY declined. He turns it over far more, can't hit his midrange shots, basically has become a spot up 3pt shooter, and had a good stretch, but not sure that will last, his defense has drastically declined, etc. So given that he turned us from a bottom feeder into a great team, it only stands to reason when he is no longer himself we go back to that bottom feeder.

Of course we have had some improvement from others, but not enough to make us a top tier team with this version of Paul..yet people expect it.

I (and many of us) have mentioned ever since we got Paul that we desperately need a PGoTF but Jones seemingly didn't realize that.

Obviously we saw not just Book is the savior either given how we played even with him once we hit top tier teams and got crushe (Dallas the 2nd time after luckily making a huge comeback in the first game, Boston, and then the Pelicans)..

However, once we get Booker AND Cam back it definitely helps because we have many more options making it tougher on opposing defenses.

Still doesn't change the fact we need to find a PG big time, or at least let Book take over PG duties next year with Bridges at 2, Cam at 3, and maybe a 4 who can make plays, defend, rebound and hit the 3.

It's unforgivable how James Jones has still failed to find a decent backup PG for CP3 when it was apparent Cam Payne wasn't the answer last season.

I was one the fence with Matt Ishba replacing him as GM but I desperately want him gone now with a GM that doesn't sit on his hands all off season who only picks up aged veterans or third/fourth string bench players and expects them to play major minutes.

[handsome salary]

My apathy level for this season so far is now back to 2015 levels. Forgot there was even a game. Heard the last couple of minutes as I was driving. Then I looked at the box score. 11 point first half mixed with a 32 point halftime deficit. Pathetic.

I get the Ayton bashing. And the Jones bashing. And the Monty bashing. None of them know what they **** to do without a Booker or a 2 year younger CP3.

[SunsRback4Good]

My apathy level for this season so far is now back to 2015 levels. Forgot there was even a game. Heard the last couple of minutes as I was driving. Then I looked at the box score. 11 point first half mixed with a 32 point halftime deficit. Pathetic.

I get the Ayton bashing. And the Jones bashing. And the Monty bashing. None of them know what they **** to do without a Booker or a 2 year younger CP3.

This team relies heavily on Devin Booker similar to SSOL teams relying on Nash. The Bucks don’t need to rely on Giannis, I have seen them win many games with him off the court. The Warriors just won 5 straight games with Curry & Wiggins injured. It’s because thosw teams are deep and know how to win games without their superstar. If the Suns want to compete again they must not bring players who fit with Booker, but players who can win WITHOUT Booker.

[Sunlight]

This struggle has showed how important Crowder really was to this team. His value was so high. We can see it right now and thats coming front to our faces. When Crowder came to Valley we suddenly start winning and played most defense effort basketball for years and were best team most of times in that era. CP3 was not that difference maker, it was Jay. People just dont want accept that.

[SunsRback4Good]

..

[SunsRback4Good]

This struggle has showed how important Crowder really was to this team. His value was so high. We can see it right now and thats coming front to our faces. When Crowder came to Valley we suddenly start winning and played most defense effort basketball for years and were best team most of times in that era. CP3 was not that difference maker, it was Jay. People just dont want accept that.

Oh, believe me I know how valuable Jae Crowder can can be. It’s no coincidence wherever he goes the team performs better. Cleveland with Lebron, Twolves with Butler, Kat finally made playoffs after missing out for 12 years, Heat finals in the bubble was there too and now helped Suns make finals. Crowder is valuable and guarded AD perfectly in the playoffs. There’s a reason why our defense was excellent as we could go minutes without scoring and still hold up any leads because of Jae, Ayton, Bridges and Paul when he looked like an NBA player. I’m just frustrated Crowder chose to sit out but as a player, he’s valuable and would help any contending team once traded.

[grumpysaddle]

Crowder is a b*tch. Imagine your job paying you $10 million and you choose to stay home instead but still get paid $10 million. Did one of his teammates sleep with his wife? I don't get how it went bad so quick other than Crowder being salty about possibly losing his starting assignment.

[Sunlight]

This struggle has showed how important Crowder really was to this team. His value was so high. We can see it right now and thats coming front to our faces. When Crowder came to Valley we suddenly start winning and played most defense effort basketball for years and were best team most of times in that era. CP3 was not that difference maker, it was Jay. People just dont want accept that.

Oh, believe me I know how valuable Jae Crowder can can be. It’s no coincidence wherever he goes the team performs better. Cleveland with Lebron, Twolves with Butler, Kat finally made playoffs after missing out for 12 years, Heat finals in the bubble was there too and now helped Suns make finals. Crowder is valuable and guarded AD perfectly in the playoffs. There’s a reason why our defense was excellent as we could go minutes without scoring and still hold up any leads because of Jae, Ayton, Bridges and Paul when he looked like an NBA player. I’m just frustrated Crowder chose to sit out but as a player, he’s valuable and would help any contending team once traded.

Yes he knows his own value and that is the reason he chose to sit. As a bench player he would get next contract only halve of what he get as a starter or even less money. There were no reason to bench him and replace him for injury prone CamJ. No results/stats support that change what Monty did. If u are not suppose to give extend it not means that u automatically always drop player out starting position if that just brought record 64-18. No sense to me break that harmony. There are in history many champions teams whose not extend contract to all their starters next year. I just dont get it JJ and Monty philosophy this point. Jay Crowder was not the reason Suns raped in Game 7. It was our back court. Change that or something.

[Calvin Klein]

It's not only Crowder, but both Cam and him. They can play the 4 and hit the 3, even if Crowder is streaky. Without any of them, the whole system doesn't work. Without them and without Booker, we have no chance.

I would also love to know the reason that Crowder won't play. It can't just be the starting spot. If that's the reason, he's an idiot as he would be getting tons of minutes now.