WHY Do You Want The Clippers To Win So Badly???

[Wammy Giveaway]

Part venting thread, part analysis.

I've been noticing a lot, and I do mean a lot, of impatient demands from within the Clipper fanbase. Stuff like:

1. Clippers have to start winning like they mean it. None of this "one game at a time," "let's wait til everyone from the superstars all the way to the draft pick rookies get healthy" talk.

2. Play the players who are meant to play. The younger ones, especially, the "Clippers of the future." Too much "too old, too injury prone, too many coach's favorites."

3. Stop hiding, stop concealing, stop covering. This is in relation to the Clippers being cautiously coy in their responses, trying to protect the franchise for fear of giving their opponents an unfair advantage.

4. Stop being nice. More on me, but an example of what I've experienced from Clippers this year. They're too risk averse, too courteous, too concerned of their image. Clippers are one of 13 teams in the league to have yet had a player ejected from a game. An ejection while bad could also be good for them. But the fear of being compared to the evil Sterling-era Clippers regime of years past is the sole reason why they want to take things delicately. They want to be the new Spurs, a model citizen franchise who plays for the good of humanity.

I ask all of you: why do you want the Clippers to win a title so badly? Do you think they really have it like they nearly did in the 2021 NBA playoffs...

Or is it all about erasing the memories of all the failures and dysfunction associated with the Sterling era? I bet my money on the latter, and I think that's the real reason why the Clippers haven't gotten over themselves yet. The fact they were defeated by Chris Paul might have something to do with it. He was the former savior of the franchise, handed to the Clippers by David Stern under the circumstances of the Lakers veto, while Sterling was still in power (remember that the Clippers got Paul during the 2012 NBA lockout season; Sterling wouldn't be banned until 2014). Being defeated by Paul was basically being defeated by Sterling, and they haven't gotten over his past yet.

If they can't get over their past - better yet, embrace it - I don't think they'll ever take the proverbial next step into becoming champions. They have to mature, but they haven't really matured. It might take an ejection to see such a change. But they're afraid that an ejection will permanently tarnish their image.

What's it gonna be?

[ERClips]

I’m a Clipper fan no matter what. Have been since the late 80’s.

I really don’t think the current players & coaches think much about the Sterling era or Doc’s recent Clippers team. These guys are pros and have been moving around & having careers throughout the NBA. Do they know of the Clippers legacy? No doubt because everyone does. It’s there until the Clips win a championship. Even when they do it’ll still be a Lakers town. Our numbers can’t match theirs but that’s part of what makes being a Clippers fan special.

Regarding the Lue bashing in every game thread, I see it this way. Our record is 21-18 or something. That’s not setting the league on fire but it’s a respectable record given where the top seed in the west is. A 5 game win or lose streak puts the top 6 teams right near each other. Are we underachieving? Maybe. Or maybe we’re about as good as what we’re seeing. Just because everyone was saying we’re the team to beat in the west at the beginning of the season doesn’t make it so. I personally don’t hold on to that line of thinking anymore. With the players we have and the availability, & the injuries etc, I seriously don’t see a different coach getting much better results.

Tinkering with the rotations available really gonna bring us 5-6 more wins? I love RoCo & Coffey & the idea of our young players coming into their own but are they the difference makers? Awesome complimentary pieces that could definitely use more playing time but probably not gonna make us that much better…IMO
Coach Lue has his responsibilities to prepare the team, draw up plays & pt decisions but ultimately he’s not out on the court doing what’s been killing us lately.

Our turnover situation is really on the players and they should be embarrassed! It’s lost us many games this season & is my biggest problem with what I see. Our roster at pg and center is also lacking. A few changes should probably happen and hopefully they will but there’s not a lot of available guys on other teams that will change us so much.

Anyway long post but I want them to win because they’re my team and that’s all I want every time they play. Whether now or in the old school days

[Clemenza]

I think it was just time to have one of those seasons where we hit the ground running, unleashed our full potential, no playing favorites, a mix of old and new, etc. We're four years into the PG & Kawhi era and we're still at ground zero with "Lets Go Heat" chants breaking out at Crypto in 2023. I'm tired of the yearly slogans like "Give No Quarter" and such, and yeah we do a lot of things right outside of the game but for some reason, outside of the WCF appearance two years ago, we just can't get things right on the court.

I was tired of watching the "Reggie & Mook Show" last season and I'm way past it this year -no disrespect to either of them because I know the "Reggie & Associates Legal Defense Team" is on this board and both players are simply doing their jobs- but I just want to see some fun basketball for a change. If not the stars then show me the future. The season is far from over and I'll always be a fan of the team no matter what as I also hit about 4-7 games a season but this PG/Kawhi era has been so so frustrating as a fan. They sold us on all this "depth" talk but we literally don't see any effects of a deep team whatsoever. Is our depth wearing teams down defensively? Is our deep bench and offense steam rolling teams off the court? If an injury occurs is someone else stepping up to fill the void? You have to see at least one of these things if not two if we're truly deep right? Granted our stars have been in and out of the lineup but our so called depth has been nothing but confusion and a total letdown. But I digress. Hopefully PG's hamstring isn't too bad and we can stay around .500 and turn it around post all star break

[Scoundreldays]

For me I am from Moreno Valley and live in San Diego so will always root for Kawhi. PG is also one of my favorite players so it would be nice for him to get a ring.

For me the impatience stems from the core is getting older and running out of time to be a true contender. This team is capable of so much so it is frustrating seeing them under perform or be injured.

I also am super competitive and hate losing at anything. I have always been this way when I played sports, videogames and work. I love winning so I'll always be frustrated with a loss even if I have unrealistic expectations lol.

[esqtvd]

WHY Do You Want The Clippers To Win So Badly???

LOL. Some people don't. As soon as the Clips get down by 10 they launch into "I Told You So" mode. And when the Clips make a comeback, they crawl back into the woodwork.

Until next time. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Ad infinitum, ad nauseam. Some people are just so invested in being right that they only get joy out of spoiling the ride for everyone else.


As for the Clippers themselves in 2023, unfortunately we're not a very heady team. The aggressive players/leaders like PG and Reggie still make bonehead plays in the crunch and there are too many passive ones like Mook, Kennard and often Zubac and even Mann. And Kawhi is not the charismatic and fearless leader that Magic, Bird and Kobe were--and Steph and Giannis are.

I don't know much about Powell, He was not a key member of the Raptors championship team and has been a mixed bag as a Clipper. But he does have the aggressiveness we need so badly and averaged 17 ppg in the playoffs with Portland in '21. He could be the x-factor. Coach is investing heavily in him and I think it's the smart gamble.

In fact, I don't see where Ty has much of a choice but to hope to get something out of Powell, Kennard, and/or Wall. So far it's not been pretty. But anybody who thinks we're gonna ride Mann, Coffey and the G-Leaguers deep into the playoffs is delusional.

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[esqtvd]

In nearly four seasons, Kawhi and PG have only played 2253 mins together.

The Clippers are +709 in those minutes.

[wakelaunch1]

Worked for the team pre Ballmer, pre CP3. so I put over a year off hardwork grinding to be successful. After I left I have still cheered on the team.

Went to SDSU, so also a fan of Kawhi.

Disappointed that they traded SGA for PG.

Loved the blend of the team with CP3, Blake, Deandre. Also loved the https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAC/2019.html

I dont like the current blend of players. I think Kawhi/PG is not a great pairing as they kinda dont really blend together well. THe league has already passed them by with all their injuries. I think they need to make some serious trades and mix some new players together.

[TrueLAfan]

I’ve been a Clipper fan for three plus decades now, so I want them to win because—they’re my team. They were in 1989, they were at the beginning of this year, and the years in between.

I think the Sterling era stuff means a lot more to older fans or casual fans than it does to almost any player today. As much as it pains me to say it, the Clippers turned the corner a few years before Sterling was forced out. Really. The practice facility was built in 2008; that was a big deal. The last three years Sterling was owner, the team went 153-77. Sterling was a blight on sports in general, but fewer and fewer players in the league now (and fans) remember him. The Clippers have been a solid franchise for well over a decade now.

Yeah, the reasons I want to win now are more complex, though. I try to keep the enjoyment part of it. But with an incredibly deep pocketed owner and a well-run franchise that has a level of stability, there are increased expectations of winning. That’s different. What I’m afraid of is that we’ll turn into the post 1997 Dallas Cowboys; lot of money, moderate success, not getting the ring--embittered fans. So I appreciate the reminders to keep it light.

[TrueLAfan]

I’ve been a Clipper fan for three plus decades now, so I want them to win because—they’re my team. They were in 1989, they were at the beginning of this year, and the years in between.

I think the Sterling era stuff means a lot more to older fans or casual fans than it does to almost any player today. As much as it pains me to say it, the Clippers turned the corner a few years before Sterling was forced out. Really. The practice facility was built in 2008; that was a big deal. The last three years Sterling was owner, the team went 153-77. Sterling was a blight on sports in general, but fewer and fewer players in the league now (and fans) remember him. The Clippers have been a solid franchise for well over a decade now.

Yeah, the reasons I want to win now are more complex, though. I try to keep the enjoyment part of it. But with an incredibly deep pocketed owner and a well-run franchise that has a level of stability, there are increased expectations of winning. That’s different. What I’m afraid of is that we’ll turn into the post 1997 Dallas Cowboys; lot of money, moderate success, not getting the ring--embittered fans. So I appreciate the reminders to keep it light.

[esqtvd]

I was tired of watching the "Reggie & Mook Show" last season and I'm way past it this year -no disrespect to either of them because I know the "Reggie & Associates Legal Defense Team" is on this board and both players are simply doing their jobs- but I just want to see some fun basketball for a change.

Yes, they are just doing their jobs. Both should probably be backups. But they aren't taking minutes from anybody who should be getting them. In fact, that's the problem.

If you want "fun" basketball, it's just down the road apiece.

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[BenchOnaQUEST]

I’ve been a Clipper fan for three plus decades now, so I want them to win because—they’re my team. They were in 1989, they were at the beginning of this year, and the years in between.

I think the Sterling era stuff means a lot more to older fans or casual fans than it does to almost any player today. As much as it pains me to say it, the Clippers turned the corner a few years before Sterling was forced out. Really. The practice facility was built in 2008; that was a big deal. The last three years Sterling was owner, the team went 153-77. Sterling was a blight on sports in general, but fewer and fewer players in the league now (and fans) remember him. The Clippers have been a solid franchise for well over a decade now. (...)

Same here, I’ve been a Clipper fan since 1998... that almost three decades....

[madmaxmedia]

For me I am from Moreno Valley and live in San Diego so will always root for Kawhi. PG is also one of my favorite players so it would be nice for him to get a ring.

For me the impatience stems from the core is getting older and running out of time to be a true contender. This team is capable of so much so it is frustrating seeing them under perform or be injured.

I also am super competitive and hate losing at anything. I have always been this way when I played sports, videogames and work. I love winning so I'll always be frustrated with a loss even if I have unrealistic expectations lol.

Definitely increased expectations have played a role the last 3+ seasons. Landing Kawhi and PG was a huge move whether you liked it or not, also whether you liked it or not it was a win now move.

I mentioned before our best chance at a title was in the first 3 years after the deal rather than the 3/3+ years after, given their age and the assets we gave up. We blew it in the bubble, and injuries robbed the last 2 years.

IMO we’re gonna have to find and pull a big trade to reverse the gradual decline of this team going forward. That’s not to say we’re doing everything perfectly now of course.

[esqtvd]

I’ve been a Clipper fan for three plus decades now, so I want them to win because—they’re my team. They were in 1989, they were at the beginning of this year, and the years in between.

I think the Sterling era stuff means a lot more to older fans or casual fans than it does to almost any player today. As much as it pains me to say it, the Clippers turned the corner a few years before Sterling was forced out. Really. The practice facility was built in 2008; that was a big deal. The last three years Sterling was owner, the team went 153-77. Sterling was a blight on sports in general, but fewer and fewer players in the league now (and fans) remember him. The Clippers have been a solid franchise for well over a decade now. (...)

Same here, I’ve been a Clipper fan since 1998... that almost three decades....

Nice to see you again, Tony.

We need more of the REAL fans back here. Don't let the bloodsuckers ruin it.

[esqtvd]

For me I am from Moreno Valley and live in San Diego so will always root for Kawhi. PG is also one of my favorite players so it would be nice for him to get a ring.

For me the impatience stems from the core is getting older and running out of time to be a true contender. This team is capable of so much so it is frustrating seeing them under perform or be injured.

I also am super competitive and hate losing at anything. I have always been this way when I played sports, videogames and work. I love winning so I'll always be frustrated with a loss even if I have unrealistic expectations lol.

Definitely increased expectations have played a role the last 3+ seasons. Landing Kawhi and PG was a huge move whether you liked it or not, also whether you liked it or not it was a win now move.

I mentioned before our best chance at a title was in the first 3 years after the deal rather than the 3/3+ years after, given their age and the assets we gave up. We blew it in the bubble, and injuries robbed the last 2 years.

IMO we’re gonna have to find and pull a big trade to reverse the gradual decline of this team going forward. That’s not to say we’re doing everything perfectly now of course.

Ty is trying to make the best of what he's been given. His only NBA-quality big man after Zu is Marcus Morris, who's only 6'8" and pretty soft. Undersized and underpowered.

And 3 SGs who can't play PG or SF either. Plus Paul George starts at SG so this is an impossible situation re minutes. Powell, Kennard and Mann are all competing for leftovers at the 2 or playing out of position at the 1 or 3. Whatever Ty does is probably doomed. Even if it works there are gonna be a lot of losses ramping them up to play new positions.


Damn right we need a trade but frankly if I'm an opposing GM, the only Clipper I'm interested in is Boston Jr. and maybe Kennard. Zu if in return as part of a deal for my starting center. Maybe Mann as a throw-in. The rest of the Clippers' well-paid 32-year-olds--don't call us, we'll call you.

[MartinToVaught]

Regarding the Lue bashing in every game thread, I see it this way. Our record is 21-18 or something. That’s not setting the league on fire but it’s a respectable record given where the top seed in the west is.

Our record against any team with a pulse is 5-13. Only Charlotte has fewer wins against .500+ opponents than we do, and they're tanking for Wemby. That is horrible for a team that we were told was "the deepest team ever" and "championship favorites." The only reason we're over .500 at all is because we had such an easy schedule to start the season (and barely took advantage of it).

With the players we have and the availability, & the injuries etc, I seriously don’t see a different coach getting much better results.

A different coach might use lineups that play to the strengths of the roster, rather than all guards and no defense. They might actually experiment instead of just talking about it.

A different coach might not be biased in favor of washed veterans like Reggie and Wall who aren't helping the team win.

A different coach might run an actual offensive system with plays instead of stagnant iso jump shots. Scoring in the NBA is the easiest it's been in decades, but you wouldn't know it from watching this team play.

A different coach might not insult the fans by saying stuff like "nothing went wrong, we had a great third quarter" after a loss where we were terrible in all three other quarters due to his coaching.

Are those guaranteed? No, but at least there's a chance of improving the coaching. With Lue, it's obvious now that he's a below-average coach at best without LeBron or Atkinson.

[NickP]

"Win so badly" as opposed to what? Being content with the current win rate or a mediocre win rate?
Given the talent on this team, MTV is right. The record is mediocre.
But to get back to the original question, that's the end goal of any real fan of the team they're a fan of.

[esqtvd]

"Win so badly" as opposed to what? Being content with the current win rate or a mediocre win rate?
Given the talent on this team, MTV is right. The record is mediocre.
But to get back to the original question, that's the end goal of any real fan of the team they're a fan of.

Actually I think we all overrated the talent. And what it can do with one or both of the superstars injured.

Zu is a middle-of-the-pack center and there are many teams Reggie and Mook wouldn't start for. Powell is not all the way back, RoCo is struggling, Kennard is good but passive and sorry Mann fans, but he's getting 20.8 mpg and that's as much as he'd get anywhere else. And Wall is a disaster so far.

The problem is roster construction. No backup PG or C and Mook is the only regular over 6'7" except Batum, who's 34 and just doesn't have it every night. We are outrebounded almost every game. Ty is scrambling to find any combination that's magically more than the sum of its parts--and he has no choice but to keep rolling the dice.

[NickP]

"Win so badly" as opposed to what? Being content with the current win rate or a mediocre win rate?
Given the talent on this team, MTV is right. The record is mediocre.
But to get back to the original question, that's the end goal of any real fan of the team they're a fan of.

Actually I think we all overrated the talent. And what it can do with one or both of the superstars injured.

Zu is a middle-of-the-pack center and there are many teams Reggie and Mook wouldn't start for. Powell is not all the way back, RoCo is struggling, Kennard is good but passive and sorry Mann fans, but he's getting 20.8 mpg and that's as much as he'd get anywhere else. And Wall is a disaster so far.

The problem is roster construction. No backup PG or C and Mook is the only regular over 6'7" except Batum, who's 34 and just doesn't have it every night. We are outrebounded almost every game. Ty is scrambling to find any combination that's magically more than the sum of its parts--and he has no choice but to keep rolling the dice.

Agree and disagree.
The Clippers do have talent. You have Kawhi and PG, one of the better duos in the league and almost elite at times when fully healthy.
When those guys are together, getting all the attention, then guys like Reggie, Luke etc can shine, and they do.
The talent comes into question when both these guys are not playing or not playing at their level best. Then guys like wall and Reggie play hero ball.
I think the weakest link this season has not been the talent but the coaching. Lue needs to focus on the minute details as to what every player is capable of.
He's not giving them defined roles. There's no consistency in playing times. Roco is a good player but can't get off the bench.
Got to give Roco some of Sr's minutes. Lue definitely needs to turn this around.

[MartinToVaught]

Ty is scrambling to find any combination that's magically more than the sum of its parts

No he isn't. He's been rolling out the same awful lineups all season. I would place more blame on the players if Lue was actually "experimenting" like he always says he is and the results were the same (although the antiquated offensive system would still be his fault).

[esqtvd]

"Win so badly" as opposed to what? Being content with the current win rate or a mediocre win rate?
Given the talent on this team, MTV is right. The record is mediocre.
But to get back to the original question, that's the end goal of any real fan of the team they're a fan of.

Actually I think we all overrated the talent. And what it can do with one or both of the superstars injured.

Zu is a middle-of-the-pack center and there are many teams Reggie and Mook wouldn't start for. Powell is not all the way back, RoCo is struggling, Kennard is good but passive and sorry Mann fans, but he's getting 20.8 mpg and that's as much as he'd get anywhere else. And Wall is a disaster so far.

The problem is roster construction. No backup PG or C and Mook is the only regular over 6'7" except Batum, who's 34 and just doesn't have it every night. We are outrebounded almost every game. Ty is scrambling to find any combination that's magically more than the sum of its parts--and he has no choice but to keep rolling the dice.

Agree and disagree.
The Clippers do have talent. You have Kawhi and PG, one of the better duos in the league and almost elite at times when fully healthy.
When those guys are together, getting all the attention, then guys like Reggie, Luke etc can shine, and they do.
The talent comes into question when both these guys are not playing or not playing at their level best. Then guys like wall and Reggie play hero ball.
I think the weakest link this season has not been the talent but the coaching. Lue needs to focus on the minute details as to what every player is capable of.
He's not giving them defined roles. There's no consistency in playing times. Roco is a good player but can't get off the bench.
Got to give Roco some of Sr's minutes. Lue definitely needs to turn this around.

One thing--don't lump Reggie in with Wall, lol. Not even close.

Basically you're just talking about rolling different dice, and Ty is hinting that it may well be time to do so. But the smart thing was to play the highest potential payoff first. Wall has a much higher theoretical top end than Mann, that's just a fact. Powell too. These are potentially 20 ppg guys. And RoCo has not been doing anything to earn more minutes at Senior's expense. We've had enough problems with our multiple moving parts without adding MORE variables.

Ty's plan has always been to get practical with the minutes and lineups by playoff time. But going for the high floor-but-low ceiling was not the smart play early in the season.

That said, things are not improving. One alarming thing is that PG's plus/minus is usually 2nd to Kawhi's, but over the last 10 games has plummeted to +0.1, 7th on the team. So yes, it's looking like time to start over, and that means cutting back on the rotation. We've had nine guys getting significant minutes, and that's not counting RoCo.

Cutting back on the rotation may mean more wins, but also more minutes and fatigue for some, and lack of development for others. It is also putting a cap on possibilities and growth. Still, with a tough run coming up, not to mention the brutal Grammy road trip, the options are becoming limited.

People confuse strategy and tactics. The strategy is to open the playoffs healthy and running smooth. Tactics may win you more games, but winning the war is more than just winning the early battles. You just have to win enough of them to survive.