NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[Profound23]

My answer to the question of Luka, Tatum, Joker, Giannis, Zion, KD, Embiid, Ja, Mitchell is yes.

There are so many worthy candidates, whoever wins is going to have to do this the entire season.....stay healthy...and continue to win.

[sammo89]

People voting Tatum aren't watching the games. Celtics success is more based on a balanced team effort than a Tatum MVP season

[Bob8]

Ok so Giannis dropping 55 today letting us know

that 50 is the new 40

and 60 is the new 50


and 71 is still ****Ing outrageous...

Jokic gonna have to win the MVP by being consistently better without a single outlier game lol

Right now the field is crowded!

Jokic at 1.

Tatum at 2.


Luka, KD, Giannis and Embiid tied at 3

Mitchell at 4 and climbing

Curry, Zion and Ja at 5...

Is The NBA currently more stacked than ever before or are guys just showing off..or both...

https://stathead.com/tiny/4sTcu

https://stathead.com/tiny/pK0kD

Just a week ago you used this comparison to show how Jokic is in front of Luka. I guess it doesn't suit your narrative anymore?

[Johnny Firpo]

Trying to think with the voters' head, I am reasonably sure if the voting were to happen today, Luka would win it. But it's still a long way to go, from the American guys, Tatum and KD has a realistic chance to win, and KD might have a better chance at this point than Tatum.

[deneem4]

Trying to think with the voters' head, I am reasonably sure if the voting were to happen today, Luka would win it. But it's still a long way to go, from the American guys, Tatum and KD has a realistic chance to win, and KD might have a better chance at this point than Tatum.

No jokic would win it and be in the finals vs the nets if the voting happened today

***and whoever wins between kd and jokic gets the mvp…

[Johnny Firpo]

Trying to think with the voters' head, I am reasonably sure if the voting were to happen today, Luka would win it. But it's still a long way to go, from the American guys, Tatum and KD has a realistic chance to win, and KD might have a better chance at this point than Tatum.

No jokic would win it and be in the finals vs the nets if the voting happened today

***and whoever wins between kd and jokic gets the mvp…

Love Jokic, and I think he is a better player than Luka at the moment, and he is having the better season. Still think the voters would vote Doncic right now.

[rapstarter]

Strongest case for Tatum was always being the best player on the best team rather than being the best player in the league. I think he's just outside top 5. If the Celtics record keeps falling, he might even fall behind Donovan Mitchell who admittedly is having a great season.

[CobraCommander]

Ok so Giannis dropping 55 today letting us know

that 50 is the new 40

and 60 is the new 50


and 71 is still ****Ing outrageous...

Jokic gonna have to win the MVP by being consistently better without a single outlier game lol

Right now the field is crowded!

Jokic at 1.

Tatum at 2.


Luka, KD, Giannis and Embiid tied at 3

Mitchell at 4 and climbing

Curry, Zion and Ja at 5...

Is The NBA currently more stacked than ever before or are guys just showing off..or both...

https://stathead.com/tiny/4sTcu

https://stathead.com/tiny/pK0kD

Just a week ago you used this comparison to show how Jokic is in front of Luka. I guess it doesn't suit your narrative anymore?

It does even more today than last week...Lukas TS% has gone down while Jokic has gone up slightly. So if Jokic took 8 more shots a game Jokic would theoretically avg more points. Jokic is better or equal to Luka shooting from everywhere - one is a point and the other is Jokic. Jokic still ahead in every stat per 36 minutes except shots taken...including assist lol

What are you reading Bob? You send me stats to reinforce my opinion lol


Btw...at this point- IMO it’s Jokic vs like 5 guys that haven’t differentiated themselves...

Denver is number1 in the west and Boston in the east which helps Tatum and Jokic but

Giannis, Luka, Mitchell, Embiid and KD are coming ....

Embiid, Luka and Giannis had equally monstrous games over the last 2 weeks- and are on 7 game historic stretches... So no separation there between any of these guys -

KD having great stats and quietly the nets on 12 game winning streak- best in league - which pulled him equally with Giannis, Luka and Embiid.


If the stats that you read don’t show you Jokic is ahead of Luka - fine...but none of the sports writers have openly said they think Luka is the mvp...the narrative has been Tatum, initially then Giannis, and recently Jokic... Luka 60 point game just got trumped by Mitchell and Embiid and Giannis saying “ what about me”....

And Zion and Curry were getting votes before injury and Dame and Booker and ja getting considerations


in other words...right now there isn’t a MVP.... we are watching the craziest parity at the top of the league in a long time with really NO ONE guy playing that much better than any of the other top guys....

I’d be happy regardless (if Luka wins...bravo and well earned)- no one could feel cheated if they lost and the winner will have beat a worthy field!

[CobraCommander]

Trying to think with the voters' head, I am reasonably sure if the voting were to happen today, Luka would win it. But it's still a long way to go, from the American guys, Tatum and KD has a realistic chance to win, and KD might have a better chance at this point than Tatum.

No jokic would win it and be in the finals vs the nets if the voting happened today

***and whoever wins between kd and jokic gets the mvp…

Love Jokic, and I think he is a better player than Luka at the moment, and he is having the better season. Still think the voters would vote Doncic right now.

Sport writers (the ones with votes) oddly don’t say Luka as much as they say other guys are the MVP...not saying it’s a conspiracy but it’s odd. Luka definitely deserves more love from the actual voters....same could be said about Embiid (said that cause Philly fans are ruthless)...and they don’t say anything about Jokic but then they just vote for him in masse

[CobraCommander]

My answer to the question of Luka, Tatum, Joker, Giannis, Zion, KD, Embiid, Ja, Mitchell is yes.

There are so many worthy candidates, whoever wins is going to have to do this the entire season.....stay healthy...and continue to win.

If I would have saw your post it would have saved me some time this morning lol. Toooooooo trrrrueeeee! The MJ trophy would be split between 6 guys right now lol

[Bob8]

Ok so Giannis dropping 55 today letting us know

that 50 is the new 40

and 60 is the new 50


and 71 is still ****Ing outrageous...

Jokic gonna have to win the MVP by being consistently better without a single outlier game lol

Right now the field is crowded!

Jokic at 1.

Tatum at 2.


Luka, KD, Giannis and Embiid tied at 3

Mitchell at 4 and climbing

Curry, Zion and Ja at 5...

Is The NBA currently more stacked than ever before or are guys just showing off..or both...

https://stathead.com/tiny/4sTcu

https://stathead.com/tiny/pK0kD

Just a week ago you used this comparison to show how Jokic is in front of Luka. I guess it doesn't suit your narrative anymore?

It does even more today than last week...Lukas TS% has gone down while Jokic has gone up slightly. So if Jokic took 8 more shots a game Jokic would theoretically avg more points. Jokic is better or equal to Luka shooting from everywhere - one is a point and the other is Jokic. Jokic still ahead in every stat per 36 minutes except shots taken...including assist lol

What are you reading Bob? You send me stats to reinforce my opinion lol


Btw...at this point- IMO it’s Jokic vs like 5 guys that haven’t differentiated themselves...

Denver is number1 in the west and Boston in the east which helps Tatum and Jokic but

Giannis, Luka, Mitchell, Embiid and KD are coming ....

Embiid, Luka and Giannis had equally monstrous games over the last 2 weeks- and are on 7 game historic stretches... So no separation there between any of these guys -

KD having great stats and quietly the nets on 12 game winning streak- best in league - which pulled him equally with Giannis, Luka and Embiid.


If the stats that you read don’t show you Jokic is ahead of Luka - fine...but none of the sports writers have openly said they think Luka is the mvp...the narrative has been Tatum, initially then Giannis, and recently Jokic... Luka 60 point game just got trumped by Mitchell and Embiid and Giannis saying “ what about me”....

And Zion and Curry were getting votes before injury and Dame and Booker and ja getting considerations


in other words...right now there isn’t a MVP.... we are watching the craziest parity at the top of the league in a long time with really NO ONE guy playing that much better than any of the other top guys....

I’d be happy regardless (if Luka wins...bravo and well earned)- no one could feel cheated if they lost and the winner will have beat a worthy field!

Firstly, if you use stats to compare Jokic and Doncic, you should use the same stats to compare Tatum and Doncic. Doncic is better in vast majority of counting and advanced stats. Some with very big margin. But somehow that doesn't matter to you.

If we compare Jokic and Doncic, their stats are very close. In some is better Jokic, especially in TS%, btw bigs are having better TS% because of shots they're taking, and in some Doncic. Scoring 9 points more is a lot. Luka the best scorer in the league, Jokic only on 20th position. The same goes with advanced stats. Some shows Luka as better, some Jokic. Looking at advanced stats, you can't say either is better, everything very close. Luka better offensive player easily.

When you start using a tool for comparison and make a case of it, you can't just stop using it, when it doesn't work out for you anymore. You can't say someone is better because of advanced stats and then forget about stats, when Tatum has a lot worse stats than Luka.

About standings, Jokic has won only 1 game more than Luka, when they play for their teams. I don't believe that cheerleading counts in MVP race. If anything, Mavs with 0 wins without Luka should make his case even stronger.

It might be a close race, but if you look at advanced stats, Luka and Jokic are few levels better than others. Nobody even close. Others are in it just because they're playing for far superior teams.

[-Luke-]

Anybody else almost got a heart attack after reading "Nikola Jovic Out 3-4 Weeks With Back Injury"

[BmanInBigD]

If you look at advanced stats, at least the ones with which I'm familiar, Joker and Luka are unbelievably close. The main difference being on TS% which one could argue that if Jokic had to score more his TS% might drop a touch. Everything else is almost like they're the same player. Jokic gets a couple more rebounds but turns it over a bit more. But I don't think the sportswriters (voters) look at all this stuff as much as they do narrative (better record, Luka can't play D, so-and-so has already won MVP and hasn't won squat else, so-and-so hasn't won MVP yet, blah, blah...) so it 's a crap shoot at this point. But for me, at this point, it's Jokic or Luka. I don't care how many Jokic has won, if he's still MVP, he's still MVP. Screw the silly narratives.

[Woodsanity]

If you look at advanced stats, at least the ones with which I'm familiar, Joker and Luka are unbelievably close. The main difference being on TS% which one could argue that if Jokic had to score more his TS% might drop a touch. Everything else is almost like they're the same player. Jokic gets a couple more rebounds but turns it over a bit more. But I don't think the sportswriters (voters) look at all this stuff as much as they do narrative (better record, Luka can't play D, so-and-so has already won MVP and hasn't won squat else, so-and-so hasn't won MVP yet, blah, blah...) so it 's a crap shoot at this point. But for me, at this point, it's Jokic or Luka. I don't care how many Jokic has won, if he's still MVP, he's still MVP. Screw the silly narratives.

Yep I am fine with either winning it.

Still only about half the season is done so far so who knows if there emerges a strong 3rd competitor. For now I think those 2 have a big lead.

[Ron Swanson]

Hard for me to say either Jokic or Luka is a wrong choice at this point. Halfway mark of the season is when I start to take MVP lists a little more seriously, and we're pretty close now at about 36-38 games in. Giannis a clear #3 for me but you know just like the last two years he's gonna eventually make a push to make it a legit 3-man race. Mitchell and Tatum are firmly stuck in that next tier of honorable mentions, but their numbers just don't stack up to those dudes and I don't see that changing much based on precedent. I'm not gonna drop Zion and Steph completely out of it, but it's gonna be awfully hard for them to make up ground because of the time missed with injuries.

We all know the story with Embiid. He's **** awesome but we're just waiting for the next stretch where he misses a few weeks with a nagging toe injury, sore knee, hip, whatever. He's on pace again to miss 18-20 games and you have to be playing at some absolute historical outlier level for me to even consider a guy the MVP who only plays in the low-60's of an 82-game season, i.e. the Shaq Rule (and let's be honest, calling him as dominant as peak Shaq is a stretch).

[TheProfessor]

Jokic is the clear front-runner (not by much) with Luka very close second right now. But can I say the lack of credit given to KD is just sad. Everyone is sucking off tatum while KD does everything he does, but more efficiently and is only half a win down in the standings with arguably a worse squad.

KD the 3rd and could make an argument for number 2.

[CobraCommander]

https://stathead.com/tiny/4sTcu

https://stathead.com/tiny/pK0kD

Just a week ago you used this comparison to show how Jokic is in front of Luka. I guess it doesn't suit your narrative anymore?

It does even more today than last week...Lukas TS% has gone down while Jokic has gone up slightly. So if Jokic took 8 more shots a game Jokic would theoretically avg more points. Jokic is better or equal to Luka shooting from everywhere - one is a point and the other is Jokic. Jokic still ahead in every stat per 36 minutes except shots taken...including assist lol

What are you reading Bob? You send me stats to reinforce my opinion lol


Btw...at this point- IMO it’s Jokic vs like 5 guys that haven’t differentiated themselves...

Denver is number1 in the west and Boston in the east which helps Tatum and Jokic but

Giannis, Luka, Mitchell, Embiid and KD are coming ....

Embiid, Luka and Giannis had equally monstrous games over the last 2 weeks- and are on 7 game historic stretches... So no separation there between any of these guys -

KD having great stats and quietly the nets on 12 game winning streak- best in league - which pulled him equally with Giannis, Luka and Embiid.


If the stats that you read don’t show you Jokic is ahead of Luka - fine...but none of the sports writers have openly said they think Luka is the mvp...the narrative has been Tatum, initially then Giannis, and recently Jokic... Luka 60 point game just got trumped by Mitchell and Embiid and Giannis saying “ what about me”....

And Zion and Curry were getting votes before injury and Dame and Booker and ja getting considerations


in other words...right now there isn’t a MVP.... we are watching the craziest parity at the top of the league in a long time with really NO ONE guy playing that much better than any of the other top guys....

I’d be happy regardless (if Luka wins...bravo and well earned)- no one could feel cheated if they lost and the winner will have beat a worthy field!

Firstly, if you use stats to compare Jokic and Doncic, you should use the same stats to compare Tatum and Doncic. Doncic is better in vast majority of counting and advanced stats. Some with very big margin. But somehow that doesn't matter to you.

If we compare Jokic and Doncic, their stats are very close. In some is better Jokic, especially in TS%, btw bigs are having better TS% because of shots they're taking, and in some Doncic. Scoring 9 points more is a lot. Luka the best scorer in the league, Jokic only on 20th position. The same goes with advanced stats. Some shows Luka as better, some Jokic. Looking at advanced stats, you can't say either is better, everything very close. Luka better offensive player easily.

When you start using a tool for comparison and make a case of it, you can't just stop using it, when it doesn't work out for you anymore. You can't say someone is better because of advanced stats and then forget about stats, when Tatum has a lot worse stats than Luka.

About standings, Jokic has won only 1 game more than Luka, when they play for their teams. I don't believe that cheerleading counts in MVP race. If anything, Mavs with 0 wins without Luka should make his case even stronger.

It might be a close race, but if you look at advanced stats, Luka and Jokic are few levels better than others. Nobody even close. Others are in it just because they're playing for far superior teams.

Bob- i misunderstood your point- I thought you were comparing Luka to Jokic and I still think Jokic is playing better than Luka overall. The TS% isn’t just where they are shooting from. Jokic equal to Luka or better than Luka from everywhere including the FT line. Luka just takes a ton more shots. Also Luka is amazing in the post and midrange - we are splitting hairs tho. Again if Luka wins MVP he will have earned it. I think you think I am anti-Luka or anti anyone else.

But if Giannis, Embiid, Tatum or KD win it I wouldn’t be surprised or upset either - if curry or Zion got healthy and put on a a show in the second half and won it I wouldn’t be overly surprised as well because it’s writers voting -

Tatums strongest argument was being best player on best team - winning matters and being in Boston and being a very good two way player helps… and again playing in BOSTON helps. I also agree with you that Tatums pure stats are not as good as LUKAs right now-

Apart from jokic- I don’t think anyone can definitively say they should be mvp-

I also don’t think Luka has set himself apart by having amazing games- everyone going crazy-

This is the best race we have had - and I don’t think it would be bad if Luka won… I just don’t think he will

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I don’t see an all-nba thread but I just heard Bill Simmons put Jaylen Brown 2nd team all-nba and Pascal Siakam 3rd. This Celtics homer must be a stopped, no reasonable human could think that.

[CobraCommander]

I don’t see an all-nba thread but I just heard Bill Simmons put Jaylen Brown 2nd team all-nba and Pascal Siakam 3rd. This Celtics homer must be a stopped, no reasonable human could think that.

I’m telling you Tatum is getting the Celtics push-

Not saying Tatum is undeserving but if he is on the best team, his stats only need to be within spitting distance and he will win the MVP

[Bob8]

It does even more today than last week...Lukas TS% has gone down while Jokic has gone up slightly. So if Jokic took 8 more shots a game Jokic would theoretically avg more points. Jokic is better or equal to Luka shooting from everywhere - one is a point and the other is Jokic. Jokic still ahead in every stat per 36 minutes except shots taken...including assist lol

What are you reading Bob? You send me stats to reinforce my opinion lol


Btw...at this point- IMO it’s Jokic vs like 5 guys that haven’t differentiated themselves...

Denver is number1 in the west and Boston in the east which helps Tatum and Jokic but

Giannis, Luka, Mitchell, Embiid and KD are coming ....

Embiid, Luka and Giannis had equally monstrous games over the last 2 weeks- and are on 7 game historic stretches... So no separation there between any of these guys -

KD having great stats and quietly the nets on 12 game winning streak- best in league - which pulled him equally with Giannis, Luka and Embiid.


If the stats that you read don’t show you Jokic is ahead of Luka - fine...but none of the sports writers have openly said they think Luka is the mvp...the narrative has been Tatum, initially then Giannis, and recently Jokic... Luka 60 point game just got trumped by Mitchell and Embiid and Giannis saying “ what about me”....

And Zion and Curry were getting votes before injury and Dame and Booker and ja getting considerations


in other words...right now there isn’t a MVP.... we are watching the craziest parity at the top of the league in a long time with really NO ONE guy playing that much better than any of the other top guys....

I’d be happy regardless (if Luka wins...bravo and well earned)- no one could feel cheated if they lost and the winner will have beat a worthy field!

Firstly, if you use stats to compare Jokic and Doncic, you should use the same stats to compare Tatum and Doncic. Doncic is better in vast majority of counting and advanced stats. Some with very big margin. But somehow that doesn't matter to you.

If we compare Jokic and Doncic, their stats are very close. In some is better Jokic, especially in TS%, btw bigs are having better TS% because of shots they're taking, and in some Doncic. Scoring 9 points more is a lot. Luka the best scorer in the league, Jokic only on 20th position. The same goes with advanced stats. Some shows Luka as better, some Jokic. Looking at advanced stats, you can't say either is better, everything very close. Luka better offensive player easily.

When you start using a tool for comparison and make a case of it, you can't just stop using it, when it doesn't work out for you anymore. You can't say someone is better because of advanced stats and then forget about stats, when Tatum has a lot worse stats than Luka.

About standings, Jokic has won only 1 game more than Luka, when they play for their teams. I don't believe that cheerleading counts in MVP race. If anything, Mavs with 0 wins without Luka should make his case even stronger.

It might be a close race, but if you look at advanced stats, Luka and Jokic are few levels better than others. Nobody even close. Others are in it just because they're playing for far superior teams.

Bob- i misunderstood your point- I thought you were comparing Luka to Jokic and I still think Jokic is playing better than Luka overall. The TS% isn’t just where they are shooting from. Jokic equal to Luka or better than Luka from everywhere including the FT line. Luka just takes a ton more shots. Also Luka is amazing in the post and midrange - we are splitting hairs tho. Again if Luka wins MVP he will have earned it. I think you think I am anti-Luka or anti anyone else.

But if Giannis, Embiid, Tatum or KD win it I wouldn’t be surprised or upset either - if curry or Zion got healthy and put on a a show in the second half and won it I wouldn’t be overly surprised as well because it’s writers voting -

Tatums strongest argument was being best player on best team - winning matters and being in Boston and being a very good two way player helps… and again playing in BOSTON helps. I also agree with you that Tatums pure stats are not as good as LUKAs right now-

Apart from jokic- I don’t think anyone can definitively say they should be mvp-

I also don’t think Luka has set himself apart by having amazing games- everyone going crazy-

This is the best race we have had - and I don’t think it would be bad if Luka won… I just don’t think he will

You're sounding like averaging 34+ points is the easiest thing on earth. How many players in last 20 years have done that?

I'm sure that you know that TS% is not the only advanced stats out there. And btw. Luka has better 3pts % with 3x bigger volume, taking much more difficult shots than Jokic.

You're acting like Mavs are on 10th position. I have already told you, Jokic has won only 1 game more than Luka. If a single win more means he is undisputed MVP then I can only agree.

Yes some others have some very impressive games too, difference is that Luka had 25+ impressive games. That's why no one except Jokic is nowhere near in advanced stats.