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The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1)

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#61 » by jayu70 » Thu Jan 5, 2023 7:49 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:Someone needs to tell Trae that he is the problem. I hate to do this since Trae has been a Hawks for so long and it's water under the bridge, but I 100% wanted Luka in that draft. Imaging the same team switching Trae for Luka. We would easily be top 3 in the East.

Trae has the talent to do better, but he is falling far short

Trae can do better.
If it was just Trae pounding the ball at then end of games you may have a point but DJ and Bogi does that as well. As I said earlier, part of it is Nate's offense and slowing it down to limit TOs. Nate needs to call a play.
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#62 » by HMFFL » Thu Jan 5, 2023 9:34 pm

John Collins joins Dominique Wilkins as the only players in franchise history with 5,000 points, 2,500 rebounds, and 300 three pointers.

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#63 » by HMFFL » Thu Jan 5, 2023 9:36 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:Someone needs to tell Trae that he is the problem. I hate to do this since Trae has been a Hawks for so long and it's water under the bridge, but I 100% wanted Luka in that draft. Imaging the same team switching Trae for Luka. We would easily be top 3 in the East.

Trae has the talent to do better, but he is falling far short
I completely agree. Luka is better and I believe the majority would agree, but he doesn't have the talent on his team that Trae does. More Hawk fans are realizing that Trae is the issue.

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#64 » by D21 » Fri Jan 6, 2023 5:28 am

jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:Someone needs to tell Trae that he is the problem. I hate to do this since Trae has been a Hawks for so long and it's water under the bridge, but I 100% wanted Luka in that draft. Imaging the same team switching Trae for Luka. We would easily be top 3 in the East.

Trae has the talent to do better, but he is falling far short

Trae can do better.
If it was just Trae pounding the ball at then end of games you may have a point but DJ and Bogi does that as well. As I said earlier, part of it is Nate's offense and slowing it down to limit TOs. Nate needs to call a play.


I seriously would trade 2 more TO for more shots attempts because of playing faster, and far more points because playing faster, they would hit at a better %
And even while one of these three is in ISO, it's allowed for the other to cut under the basket instead of being static
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#65 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jan 6, 2023 5:53 pm

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#66 » by tbhawksfan1 » Fri Jan 6, 2023 7:42 pm

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So why doesn't he? We've been saying for years that he can't create his own shot....which is it?

If he CAN do this consistently then he becomes a huge offensive threat
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#67 » by jayu70 » Fri Jan 6, 2023 7:46 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:
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So why doesn't he? We've been saying for years that he can't create his own shot....which is it?

If he CAN do this consistently then he becomes a huge offensive threat

Part of it is actually touching the ball to do it.
Too many times, we go possessions where he doesn't touch it at all unless he gets an OReb.
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#68 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Jan 6, 2023 8:28 pm

jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:So why doesn't he? We've been saying for years that he can't create his own shot....which is it?

If he CAN do this consistently then he becomes a huge offensive threat


Part of it is actually touching the ball to do it.

Too many times, we go possessions where he doesn't touch it at all unless he gets an OReb.



Agreed. It was clear that the Hawks were focused on ball movement and multiple players touching the ball during offensive possessions against SAC. It's how we had so many players in double digit scoring and why Trae was 4th in FG Attempts that game.

If you look at the shot clock on the possession above, the ball gets kicked out to John with 15 seconds left on the clock. That's much different than getting the ball with only a few seconds left and time only left to chuck up a three pointer.

Ironically, this is the kind of team basketball John Collins has been waiting years for the Hawks to embrace.
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#69 » by jayu70 » Fri Jan 6, 2023 8:44 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:So why doesn't he? We've been saying for years that he can't create his own shot....which is it?

If he CAN do this consistently then he becomes a huge offensive threat


Part of it is actually touching the ball to do it.

Too many times, we go possessions where he doesn't touch it at all unless he gets an OReb.



Agreed. It was clear that the Hawks were focused on ball movement and multiple players touching the ball during offensive possessions against SAC. It's how we had so many players in double digit scoring and why Trae was 4th in FG Attempts that game.

If you look at the shot clock on the possession above, the ball gets kicked out to John with 15 seconds left on the clock. That's much different than getting the ball with only a few seconds left and time only left to chuck up a three pointer.

Ironically, this is the kind of team basketball John Collins has been waiting years for the Hawks to embrace.

That article was on point, and is still relevant today.
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#70 » by Geaux_Hawks » Sat Jan 7, 2023 3:09 pm

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I'm sorry, but that's just bad defense. Practically no resistance from Huerter. That's the only time Collins has ever done anything himself, is off of bad defense.
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#71 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Jan 8, 2023 12:31 pm

JC is an elite play finisher. Few players in the league can finish off plays from so many different spots n the floor at an above average clip.

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#72 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Jan 11, 2023 5:52 pm

Remember that in the interrupted 2019-20 season, Collins averaged 21.6 points, 10.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists and 1.6 blocks per game, shooting 58.3 percent from the field and 40.1 percent from beyond the arc. In that 2019-20 season, when Collins was at his most productive, it was as a versatile offensive threat but primarily as a pick-and-roll partner for Young. Their chemistry was fantastic and Collins’ leaping ability made him an anytime-anywhere lob threat that Young leveraged in a variety of ways.

That season about 28 percent of his offensive possessions were finished as the screener in the pick-and-roll. This season, that percentage has fallen to 16.3 and instead of catching lobs from Young, we’re seeing a lot more of this.

The problem is not just Young missing John Collins in favor of taking contested jumpers. But overall, Collins is spending a lot more time stationed in the corner and watching passively as the offensive unfolds in front of him.

Nearly 30 percent of Collins’ possessions this season have come from spot-ups, up from about 16 percent in 2019-20, basically reversing the pattern with regard to his pick-and-roll opportunities. Collins has some stretch to his game, but the most valuable part of his game is his movement, energy and explosiveness in the paint. Leaving him to languish in the corner is asking him to lean into the weakest parts of his game at the expense of his strengths.

A big factor here is roster construction. Collins has been setting an average of 13.3 screens per game for Murray/Young this season, far less than Capela (26.4) or Okongwu (16.7). The pick-and-roll pairing with Murray or Young and Collins has been a far more efficient scoring option for the Hawks, but in total it’s they’re probably better off with the centers screening and Collins floating around the perimeter instead of the reverse.

If you put Collins on a roster with a center who could protect the rim and space the floor — say Myles Turner and the Pacers, Kristaps Porzingis and the Wizards, the Grizzlies and Jaren Jackson Jr. — he’d be freer to get back into the role that made him so effective earlier in his career, wreaking havoc inside the arc with quickness and explosiveness.
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#73 » by Slim Charless » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:34 pm

jayu70 wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
jayu70 wrote:
Part of it is actually touching the ball to do it.

Too many times, we go possessions where he doesn't touch it at all unless he gets an OReb.



Agreed. It was clear that the Hawks were focused on ball movement and multiple players touching the ball during offensive possessions against SAC. It's how we had so many players in double digit scoring and why Trae was 4th in FG Attempts that game.

If you look at the shot clock on the possession above, the ball gets kicked out to John with 15 seconds left on the clock. That's much different than getting the ball with only a few seconds left and time only left to chuck up a three pointer.

Ironically, this is the kind of team basketball John Collins has been waiting years for the Hawks to embrace.

That article was on point, and is still relevant today.


Would you guys do Cameron Johnson and Crowder for Collins? Gives you more shooting and imo beats that deal you're discussing with Utah.
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#74 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:46 pm

Slim Charless wrote:Would you guys do Cameron Johnson and Crowder for Collins? Gives you more shooting and imo beats that deal you're discussing with Utah.


Probably. Assuming we can get Cam Johnson to extend for less than what Collins is getting paid.

We might ask for a pick swap or protected 1st rounder since Johnson is coming back from injury and Collins is the more productive player, locked into a decent contract long term.




NOTE: There's a chance Dejounte Murray is in love with John Collins, so he might decide to tag along. :dontknow:

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He tells John this everyday?!?!?!?

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#75 » by Slim Charless » Thu Jan 12, 2023 4:53 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:Would you guys do Cameron Johnson and Crowder for Collins? Gives you more shooting and imo beats that deal you're discussing with Utah.


Probably. Assuming we can get Cam Johnson to extend for less than what Collins is getting paid.

We might ask for a pick swap or protected 1st rounder since Johnson is coming back from injury and Collins is the more productive player, locked into a decent contract long term.




NOTE: There's a chance Dejounte Murray is in love with John Collins, so he might decide to tag along. :dontknow:

Spoiler:
He tells John this everyday?!?!?!?

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Yeah. I would think that this wouldn't happen till close to the deadline. I'm hoping that the Suns wanna showcase him CamJo is healthy and still has his shot. He'd be a good fit there. He's super mature and a great locker room guy.

Side note: That's funny about DJM. I always thought that him and Trae are boys and not him and Collins.
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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#76 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Jan 12, 2023 5:22 pm

Slim Charless wrote:Side note: That's funny about DJM. I always thought that him and Trae are boys and not him and Collins.



The heart wants what the heart wants. :love:

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#77 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Feb 9, 2023 2:37 pm

If he's gonna be here, feed him!!!

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#78 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:51 pm

Man, Collins has improved his game so much the last few years. This ability to put the ball on the floor and create for himself is a welcome addition to his arsenal.

Feed this man the damn ball!!!

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#79 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Feb 10, 2023 1:55 pm

Is there another player on the Hawks who can put the ball on the floor and actually attack the rim like this?

Feed this man!!!

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Re: The continued evolution of John Collins (Part 1) 

Post#80 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:07 pm

Not bad for a dude with underwhelming wingspan.

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