Minnesota Meltdown already, interior clogged with 2 centers, offense floundering.

Hoops Addict · Post #21 » by **Hoops Addict** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:54 pm

Minnesota lost again.....10-9

mg · Post #22 » by mg » Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:44 pm

This trade is going to prove out to be one of the more lopsided deals in history when all the picks are finally settled.

The Jazz could potentially draft someone with the MInny pick in '29 who is still playing with them a decade later.

Crunch 99 · Post #23 » by **Crunch 99** » Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:37 pm

Minnesota gave up 142 points in a loss to Washington last night. I feel bad for Rudy sometimes, but that feeling is quickly overwhelmed by the growing possibility that the Wolves could get us a top ten pick. If the draft were held today, Minnesota would draft #11.

red4hf · Post #24 » by **red4hf** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:56 pm

Now they're back to one C lineups for at least a month....... We'll see what Rudy is really worth now.......

Hoops Addict · Post #25 » by **Hoops Addict** » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:48 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:Minnesota gave up 142 points in a loss to Washington last night. I feel bad for Rudy sometimes, but that feeling is quickly overwhelmed by the growing possibility that the Wolves could get us a top ten pick. If the draft were held today, Minnesota would draft #11.

#11 would be nice......also Minnesota fans and management will freak out since they will owe us 3 more picks.....and the meltdown will make Anthony Edwards leave the sinking ship.

Crunch 99 · Post #26 » by **Crunch 99** » Fri Dec 2, 2022 1:47 pm

Minnesota won their first game playing without injured Towns, winning against Memphis at home. Memphis only scored 101 points. A couple of surprising stats, however, are that Rudy Gobert only had one rebound, and the the Grizzlies outrebounded the Wolves, 59-29, including a 20 to 5 advantage on orebs. Adams had 12/6 rebs and JJ had 11/4 rebs. But Memphis had 27 tovs.

vryadli · Post #27 » by **vryadli** » Fri Dec 2, 2022 5:20 pm

As for Minnesota "experiment" 2 things (evidently connected) caught my attention: first, the most passes to Rudy is coming from Towns
second - the very dubious talks from their 2 guards. They sound like they wand their stats even more than DM did. Looks like chemistry between guards and bigs is not what one would like for contender...

Post #28 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Fri Jan 6, 2023 4:55 pm

The Wolves had a players only meeting and have since won 2 in a row. I had a feeling all season long that the Wolves have had a very easy schedule, so I decided to check and my suspicions are confirmed. So here is how things stand as of right now.

Bad news:
The Wolves have won 2 in a row and have had one of the easiest schedules in the league up to this point - 26h in strength of schedule.

Good news:
The Wolves strength of schedule remaining is ranked as 9th. Overall, I think they've been extremely lucky with their schedule this season.

http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/strength-of-schedule.php

AingesBurner · Post #29 » by **AingesBurner** » Fri Jan 6, 2023 4:57 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:The Wolves had a players only meeting and have since won 2 in a row. I had a feeling all season long that the Wolves have had a very easy schedule, so I decided to check and my suspicions are confirmed. So here is how things stand as of right now.

Bad news:
The Wolves have won 2 in a row and have had one of the easiest schedules in the league up to this point - 26h in strength of schedule.

Good news:
The Wolves strength of schedule remaining is ranked as 9th. Overall, I think they've been extremely lucky with their schedule this season.

http://powerrankingsguru.com/nba/strength-of-schedule.php

I think the coach has failed that team more than anything, and that locker room needs a vet to bring everyone together. They should have tried to get Jordan Clarkson in the trade :lol:

Post #30 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Fri Jan 6, 2023 5:31 pm

AingesBurner wrote:I think the coach has failed that team more than anything, and that locker room needs a vet to bring everyone together. They should have tried to get Jordan Clarkson in the trade

I don't think it's the coach's fault unless he pushed for this trade and honestly thought that bringing in Gobert to play next to KAT will make them better. Imho, this is a front office fail.

AingesBurner · Post #31 » by **AingesBurner** » Fri Jan 6, 2023 6:27 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:I think the coach has failed that team more than anything, and that locker room needs a vet to bring everyone together. They should have tried to get Jordan Clarkson in the trade

I don't think it's the coach's fault unless he pushed for this trade and honestly thought that bringing in Gobert to play next to KAT will make them better. Imho, this is a front office fail.

I don’t fault the MIN FO for bringing in talent, but they overpaid for it. I fault the coach for not having a better system. I also think that Edward’s character in Hustle is his personality in real life, that team would benefit in a Trae/Ant swap.

Post #32 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Fri Jan 6, 2023 6:40 pm

AingesBurner wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
AingesBurner wrote:I think the coach has failed that team more than anything, and that locker room needs a vet to bring everyone together. They should have tried to get Jordan Clarkson in the trade

I don't think it's the coach's fault unless he pushed for this trade and honestly thought that bringing in Gobert to play next to KAT will make them better. Imho, this is a front office fail.

I don’t fault the MIN FO for bringing in talent, but they overpaid for it. I fault the coach for not having a better system. I also think that Edward’s character in Hustle is his personality in real life, that team would benefit in a Trae/Ant swap.

It's not his fault if he doesn't have the personnel because the front office traded them away for Gobert (Beverley, Vanderbilt, Beasley, etc.).

Furthermore, this is what Edwards, their franchise player, said about Gobert last season, and yet the front office decided it was a good idea to trade for him:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Un4tiwThcXI

Obviously, if they could bring in Gobert for nothing then you do it, but if you give up so much for him, it's the front office's fault. Their future is now FUBARd.

Crunch 99 · Post #33 » by **Crunch 99** » Sat Jan 7, 2023 1:01 pm

Gobert had a huge game against the Clippers at home last night as Wolves won their third game in a row. Clips were playing without Paul George and Kawhi Leonard.

Some good news is that the Lakers have won four in a row and are only 1/2 game behind the Wolves. Laker backup center Thomas Bryant, a late second round pick by the Jazz in 2017, is having a coming out party starting in place of AD. Over the Lakers' four game win streak, he is averaging 19.3 ppg on 12.5 fga with 13.5 rebs and 3.3 offensive.

The Jazz traded Thomas Bryant, along with the 2017 Jazz 1st round #30 pick, Josh Hart, to the Lakers for Tony Bradley. Bryant's career has been stifled by injuries, but he is looking good right now. The Jazz could possibly see Tony Bradley tonight, but Bradley is racking up DNPs and has only appeared in 9 games for Chicago.

Post #34 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat Jan 7, 2023 1:09 pm

The Wolves have won 3 in a row since their players only meeting and they may be getting their act together. Which is why we can't rely on picks from other teams and say that the Jazz shouldn't tank because we still have the Wolves pick. When it's all said and done, they may make the playoffs.

Crunch 99 · Post #35 » by **Crunch 99** » Sat Jan 7, 2023 2:35 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:The Wolves have won 3 in a row since their players only meeting and they may be getting their act together. Which is why we can't rely on picks from other teams and say that the Jazz shouldn't tank because we still have the Wolves pick. When it's all said and done, they may make the playoffs.

If you are Danny Ainge and wanting to move up in the draft, what would you do? What changes would you make?

Post #36 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat Jan 7, 2023 2:50 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:The Wolves have won 3 in a row since their players only meeting and they may be getting their act together. Which is why we can't rely on picks from other teams and say that the Jazz shouldn't tank because we still have the Wolves pick. When it's all said and done, they may make the playoffs.

If you are running the team, what does your tanking plan look like?

1. Trade Conley, Clarkson, Olynyk, and Gay for young prospects and draft picks (I suppose we can keep Gay).
2. Play and develop the new roster
3. Rest players with minor injuries
4. The coach coaches to win.
5. The players play to win.

edededtut · Post #37 » by **edededtut** » Sat Jan 7, 2023 4:23 pm

The Jazz traded Thomas Bryant, along with the 2017 Jazz 1st round #30 pick, Josh Hart, to the Lakers for Tony Bradley. Bryant's career has been stifled by injuries, but he is looking good now. The Jazz could possibly see Tony Bradley tonight, but Bradley is racking up DNPs and has only appeared in 9 games for Chicago.

I thought they were the same player.. and it turns out they’ve been traded for each other

Position: Center ▪ Shoots: Right
6-10, 248lb (208cm, 112kg)

Crunch 99 · Post #38 » by **Crunch 99** » Sat Jan 7, 2023 4:37 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Crunch 99 wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:The Wolves have won 3 in a row since their players only meeting and they may be getting their act together. Which is why we can't rely on picks from other teams and say that the Jazz shouldn't tank because we still have the Wolves pick. When it's all said and done, they may make the playoffs.

If you are running the team, what does your tanking plan look like?

1. Trade Conley, Clarkson, Olynyk, and Gay for young prospects and draft picks (I suppose we can keep Gay).
2. Play and develop the new roster
3. Rest players with minor injuries
4. The coach coaches to win.
5. The players play to win.

Yes, both Clarkson and Olynyk are on good value contracts that are tradable for decent young prospects or picks. I think if we could get Clarkson on an extension around $20 mill/year, I would lean towards keeping him. He jumped his ast/game from 2.5 to 4.5 this season and looks like he can improve even more on that assist number if he wants to. He's averaging 20+ ppg now at close to league average efficiency, .564 TS% versus league average .577 TS%.

Both Conley and Gay have negative contracts imo, where we would likely have to give up additional players or picks just to move them, or take back bad contracts. But Conley's veteran leadership is still probably important to setting Jazz team culture and important to Markkanen and the rest of the players' development, so I would keep him.

Regarding resting players with minor injuries, I think if that happened at all, it would have to come organically from Will Hardy decisions. I am guessing CEO Danny Ainge does not interfere with coaching staff decisions.

Hardy appears to be giving most of our players a chance at playing some meaningful minutes. Rookie Ochai is just starting to get an opportunity.

We are 3-7 the last ten without trying to tank.

Post #39 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Sat Jan 7, 2023 5:13 pm

Crunch 99 wrote:Yes, both Clarkson and Olynyk are on good value contracts that are tradable for decent young prospects or picks. I think if we could get Clarkson on an extension around $20 mill/year, I would lean towards keeping him. He jumped his ast/game from 2.5 to 4.5 this season and looks like he can improve even more on that assist number if he wants to. He's averaging 20+ ppg now at close to league average efficiency, .564 TS% versus league average .577 TS%.

$20M to me is too much. If he isn't willing to sign a similar contract to the current one (which he shouldn't, he could get more in free agency), I'd much rather trade him and get some assets back instead of committing $20M to a player in his 30s. This is probably his best season, and I wouldn't expect him to perform at this level throughout the length of his new contract so I don't see the reason to pay him 20M per year.

Crunch 99 wrote:Both Conley and Gay have negative contracts imo, where we would likely have to give up additional players or picks just to move them, or take back bad contracts. But Conley's veteran leadership is still probably important to setting Jazz team culture and important to Markkanen and the rest of the players' development, so I would keep him.

Gay probably helps the tank so I wouldn't mind keeping him, and given his performance he'll be hard to move. As for Conley, I think he still has some value and a contender could really use him. I'm not expecting a big return. A team like Minnesota could use him, for example. Trade DLo for Mike Conley, who might fit better with this group with his ability to play off the ball, drain 3s and run an offense while being a low-mistake player. Plus, he has experience playing with Gobert. This also gives the Wolves another year to try and get value from trading Conley next season. I'm sure Ainge will find something he likes in return. The Jazz get DLO who might help the tank, and clears about 31M at the end of this season.

Crunch 99 wrote:Regarding resting players with minor injuries, I think if that happened at all, it would have to come organically from Will Hardy. I am guessing CEO Danny Ainge does not interfere with coaching staff decisions.

Maybe, but if/when the roster is weaker and full of young players it is less of an issue. I could see Ainge direct the coaching staff to take a cautious approach like they are doing now with Sexton, for example, who is sidelined for hamstring weakness. If the medical staff makes a determination and they say a player can't/shouldn't play, that will usually bypass the coach.

Crunch 99 wrote:Hardy appears to be giving most of our players a chance at playing some meaningful game minutes. Ochai is just starting to get an opportunity.

I agree, but remember the objective is to lose games, so if most of the roster is comprised of young players, Hardy will not have the option to not play younger players. Imagine how many more losses we'd have now if Hardy had to play Ochai, THT, Bolmaro, Fontecchio, Doke, Porter, Juzang, and players like Butler and other young players we'd get through trades.

Crunch 99 wrote:We are 3-7 the last ten without trying to tank.

We lost five games by 5 points or less. This could have easily been an 8-2 record. We are still not a bad team. Point being, we should have been tanking from the beginning of the season and not wait until now. We are probably looking at a .500 record by the end of the season, and that's the worst of both worlds--low draft pick and miss the playoffs (or get bounced in the first round).

Crunch 99 · Post #40 » by **Crunch 99** » Sun Jan 8, 2023 1:53 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Crunch 99 wrote:Yes, both Clarkson and Olynyk are on good value contracts that are tradable for decent young prospects or picks. I think if we could get Clarkson on an extension around $20 mill/year, I would lean towards keeping him. He jumped his ast/game from 2.5 to 4.5 this season and looks like he can improve even more on that assist number if he wants to. He's averaging 20+ ppg now at close to league average efficiency, .564 TS% versus league average .577 TS%.

$20M to me is too much. If he isn't willing to sign a similar contract to the current one (which he shouldn't, he could get more in free agency), I'd much rather trade him and get some assets back instead of committing $20M to a player in his 30s. This is probably his best season, and I wouldn't expect him to perform at this level throughout the length of his new contract so I don't see the reason to pay him 20M per year.

Well he did log 8 assists last night right after I posted he could improve his assist number if he wanted to.

But we put up weak resistance to Zach Lavine and DeRozan. We weren't very close to winning the game despite having a season high 36 assists.

I hadn't thought about length of contract. Clarkson is very likely looking for four years or more, where he would turn 35 in June of his final season on a four year contract. That is worrisome. I saw an article yesterday, can't remember where, that speculated that there is considerable interest in Clarkson at this trade deadline, so I am not adverse to selling high on Clarkson.