If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#541 » by Vampirate » Sat Jan 7, 2023 12:04 am

tooler wrote:
Vampirate wrote:
tooler wrote:I agree 100% that Franz is a poor rebounder. It's not his game. He sees Cole Anthony flying in to steal a rebound and determines that the right play is to head down to the other end of the floor. He's not the type of guy that's going to rabidly throw his body into the mix and pull down a rebound for +1 in the box score.

...and I couldn't care less. MVP candidates have flaws in their game. I'm more interested in what he already does well and his potential to be even greater. We already talked about that throughout the thread. I don't have the stamina to rehash it for new arrivals.


This is quite the jump to compare Franz too though.

I think Franz has All Star in him, but MVP is a bit much.

MVP type players are elite in more than 1 way. Harden was a great rebounder and distributer, Giannis is a monster on the glass and an all world defender etc.

Also I think it's even a stretch for you to believe Franz has Paolo's ceiling as a player.

As for Franz, he's shown to be all around efficient in his scoring, a decent distributer, probably decent-good defender. Basically a good player who can make the All Star team. Looking like a steal in the draft.

In order for Franz to get to All NBA level, let alone MVP level he needs to be able to warp defenses with his passing or become absolutely dominating with his scoring. Do you think he's going to become the 2nd coming of Dirk? I'll give that he's very tall and clearly can shoot, but can he take his game to that level?

I thought someone might get confused and jump on this. I almost explained myself but decided to let it ride.

I wasn't in the remotest universe suggesting that he's a future MVP candidate. I'm only talking about how we talk about and criticize NBA players. The MVP debate threads are full of silly little dissections of flaws. It's pointless because they're all godlike players.

So if we treat MVP candidates like that, then what's the point in debating a few flaws in my potential borderline all-star? We could be here all day if we did this to every player. I'd rather talk about the players as a whole.


I'm not exactly sure of the possibility, but Franz has potential to become All NBA as well.

Do I think it's as likely as Mobley, Barnes, Cade or Green, no but....it's there.

Franz is 6"10 with offensive skill, there's a scenario where his skills match with his height to make him offensively great.

Potential is a tricky thing to measure.

Next year this whole conversation could look totally different, heck a no name no one's heard of could come and blow everyone away.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#542 » by basketballRob » Sat Jan 7, 2023 12:07 am

Vampirate wrote:
tooler wrote:I agree 100% that Franz is a poor rebounder. It's not his game. He sees Cole Anthony flying in to steal a rebound and determines that the right play is to head down to the other end of the floor. He's not the type of guy that's going to rabidly throw his body into the mix and pull down a rebound for +1 in the box score.

...and I couldn't care less. MVP candidates have flaws in their game. I'm more interested in what he already does well and his potential to be even greater. We already talked about that throughout the thread. I don't have the stamina to rehash it for new arrivals.


This is quite the jump to compare Franz too though.

I think Franz has All Star in him, but MVP is a bit much.

MVP type players are elite in more than 1 way. Harden was a great rebounder and distributer, Giannis is a monster on the glass and an all world defender etc.

Also I think it's even a stretch for you to believe Franz has Paolo's ceiling as a player.

As for Franz, he's shown to be all around efficient in his scoring, a decent distributer, probably decent-good defender. Basically a good player who can make the All Star team. Looking like a steal in the draft.

In order for Franz to get to All NBA level, let alone MVP level he needs to be able to warp defenses with his passing or become absolutely dominating with his scoring. Do you think he's going to become the 2nd coming of Dirk? I'll give that he's very tall and clearly can shoot, but can he take his game to that level?
He's 21 and averaging 20 ppg, he could very average over that for the next 15 years. I think he'll make more than a couple of all-star games if he remains healthy.

How many guards are more deserving if an all-star bid this season?

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#543 » by Saints14 » Sat Jan 7, 2023 3:40 am

Is it worth mentioning that Josh Giddey is more than a year younger than all these dudes?
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#544 » by ChumboChappati » Sat Jan 7, 2023 3:45 am

Reeko wrote:Oh look another Scottie Barnes hit piece. No mention of how he's been able to absolutely dominate games against the NBA's best teams for stretches, scoring at will and rag dolling the best players in the game. Quite frankly he can take over in a way that no other player in his draft class can and few in the NBA can.

when this happened? you must be dreaming
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#545 » by Reeko » Sat Jan 7, 2023 4:02 am

ChumboChappati wrote:
Reeko wrote:Oh look another Scottie Barnes hit piece. No mention of how he's been able to absolutely dominate games against the NBA's best teams for stretches, scoring at will and rag dolling the best players in the game. Quite frankly he can take over in a way that no other player in his draft class can and few in the NBA can.

when this happened? you must be dreaming

I guess you don't watch Raptors games, do you Chumbo?
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#546 » by ChumboChappati » Sat Jan 7, 2023 4:08 am

Reeko wrote:
ChumboChappati wrote:
Reeko wrote:Oh look another Scottie Barnes hit piece. No mention of how he's been able to absolutely dominate games against the NBA's best teams for stretches, scoring at will and rag dolling the best players in the game. Quite frankly he can take over in a way that no other player in his draft class can and few in the NBA can.

when this happened? you must be dreaming

I guess you don't watch Raptors games, do you Chumbo?
I have watched lot of Raptors games this year and found Barnes to be below average. May be you are thinking about last season and yes in last season he was dominant in some of those games. But this season he has been a huge let down; currently he is not #1 player of his class, he is not even among top 3 players of his class.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#547 » by Reeko » Sat Jan 7, 2023 4:15 am

ChumboChappati wrote:
Reeko wrote:
ChumboChappati wrote:when this happened? you must be dreaming

I guess you don't watch Raptors games, do you Chumbo?
I have watched lot of Raptors games this year and found Barnes to be below average. May be you are thinking about last season and yes in last season he was dominant in some of those games. But this season he has been a huge let down; currently he is not #1 player of his class, he is not even among top 3 players of his class.

A lot eh? Anyone who watches Raptors games knows exactly what I'm talking about. He is still numero uno for his class.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#548 » by DarkXaero » Sat Jan 7, 2023 4:18 am

Reeko wrote:
ChumboChappati wrote:
Reeko wrote:I guess you don't watch Raptors games, do you Chumbo?
I have watched lot of Raptors games this year and found Barnes to be below average. May be you are thinking about last season and yes in last season he was dominant in some of those games. But this season he has been a huge let down; currently he is not #1 player of his class, he is not even among top 3 players of his class.

A lot eh? Anyone who watches Raptors games knows exactly what I'm talking about. He is still numero uno for his class.
Nah, that's just your homerism talking.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#549 » by Reeko » Sat Jan 7, 2023 4:21 am

DarkXaero wrote:
Reeko wrote:
ChumboChappati wrote:I have watched lot of Raptors games this year and found Barnes to be below average. May be you are thinking about last season and yes in last season he was dominant in some of those games. But this season he has been a huge let down; currently he is not #1 player of his class, he is not even among top 3 players of his class.

A lot eh? Anyone who watches Raptors games knows exactly what I'm talking about. He is still numero uno for his class.
Nah, that's just your homerism talking.

Yeah, cuz he didn't school KD and Ben Simmons for the entire 4th quarter in the last game they played against each other.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#550 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Sat Jan 7, 2023 4:40 pm

The Chip Engelland effect

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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#551 » by jasonxxx102 » Sat Jan 7, 2023 6:49 pm

Reeko wrote:
ChumboChappati wrote:
Reeko wrote:I guess you don't watch Raptors games, do you Chumbo?
I have watched lot of Raptors games this year and found Barnes to be below average. May be you are thinking about last season and yes in last season he was dominant in some of those games. But this season he has been a huge let down; currently he is not #1 player of his class, he is not even among top 3 players of his class.

A lot eh? Anyone who watches Raptors games knows exactly what I'm talking about. He is still numero uno for his class.


I would imagine the percentage of people outside of Toronto who think Scottie is the best in his class is extremely small.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#552 » by DarkXaero » Sat Jan 7, 2023 8:29 pm

Reeko wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:
Reeko wrote:A lot eh? Anyone who watches Raptors games knows exactly what I'm talking about. He is still numero uno for his class.
Nah, that's just your homerism talking.

Yeah, cuz he didn't school KD and Ben Simmons for the entire 4th quarter in the last game they played against each other.
Lol what are you talking about? Nobody has "schooled" KD this season and Nets swept the Raptors this season. As for Ben Simmons, who cares, dude self sabotages himself all the time :lol:
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#553 » by ChumboChappati » Sun Jan 8, 2023 12:02 am

jasonxxx102 wrote:
Reeko wrote:
ChumboChappati wrote:I have watched lot of Raptors games this year and found Barnes to be below average. May be you are thinking about last season and yes in last season he was dominant in some of those games. But this season he has been a huge let down; currently he is not #1 player of his class, he is not even among top 3 players of his class.

A lot eh? Anyone who watches Raptors games knows exactly what I'm talking about. He is still numero uno for his class.


I would imagine the percentage of people outside of Toronto who think Scottie is the best in his class is extremely small.

any rational person (whether he/she is living inside Toronto or outside of Toronto) will agree that Barnes is currently not the best in his class. The truth is too obvious.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#554 » by Reeko » Sun Jan 8, 2023 2:26 am

ChumboChappati wrote:
jasonxxx102 wrote:
Reeko wrote:A lot eh? Anyone who watches Raptors games knows exactly what I'm talking about. He is still numero uno for his class.


I would imagine the percentage of people outside of Toronto who think Scottie is the best in his class is extremely small.

any rational person (whether he/she is living inside Toronto or outside of Toronto) will agree that Barnes is currently not the best in his class. The truth is too obvious.

Your blind and irrational hate for Barnes is the only thing that is "too obvious". Any objective viewer would agree that he is the best in his class.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#555 » by JustLucky » Sun Jan 8, 2023 2:33 am

jasonxxx102 wrote:
Reeko wrote:
ChumboChappati wrote:I have watched lot of Raptors games this year and found Barnes to be below average. May be you are thinking about last season and yes in last season he was dominant in some of those games. But this season he has been a huge let down; currently he is not #1 player of his class, he is not even among top 3 players of his class.

A lot eh? Anyone who watches Raptors games knows exactly what I'm talking about. He is still numero uno for his class.


I would imagine the percentage of people outside of Toronto who think Scottie is the best in his class is extremely small.


that does not mean its not true cade/green is Detroit's/houstons only hope there is alot of hype. cavs are winning so theres alot of hype (even tho they should probably move him for a superstar and win a championship while they can) I dont even think green/cade are in the top 3/4 atm.

scottie barnes on the other hand is being held back and playing out of position (hes a pg) because older respected championship vets are holding him back and are losing. so ya not so much hype there
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#556 » by clwest25 » Sun Jan 8, 2023 2:39 am

I’m a board reader and never post but seeing ANYONE say Barnes is the best in his class, especially this year is misguided. It’s between Franz and Mobley and I’m
leaning Franz.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#557 » by sfernald » Sun Jan 8, 2023 2:44 am

clwest25 wrote:I’m a board reader and never post but seeing ANYONE say Barnes is the best in his class, especially this year is misguided. It’s between Franz and Mobley and I’m
leaning Franz.


Remember, we are dealing with fans from Toronto here.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#558 » by Reeko » Sun Jan 8, 2023 2:52 am

clwest25 wrote:I’m a board reader and never post but seeing ANYONE say Barnes is the best in his class, especially this year is misguided. It’s between Franz and Mobley and I’m
leaning Franz.

Barnes has owned Mobley in their head to head matchups this season.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#559 » by clwest25 » Sun Jan 8, 2023 2:57 am

Reeko wrote:
clwest25 wrote:I’m a board reader and never post but seeing ANYONE say Barnes is the best in his class, especially this year is misguided. It’s between Franz and Mobley and I’m
leaning Franz.

Barnes has owned Mobley in their head to head matchups this season.


If we’re basing this off individual game performances against each other, franz absolutely dominated Barnes in the Magic’s back to back win against the raps.
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Re: If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently 

Post#560 » by Reeko » Sun Jan 8, 2023 3:04 am

clwest25 wrote:
Reeko wrote:
clwest25 wrote:I’m a board reader and never post but seeing ANYONE say Barnes is the best in his class, especially this year is misguided. It’s between Franz and Mobley and I’m
leaning Franz.

Barnes has owned Mobley in their head to head matchups this season.


If we’re basing this off individual game performances against each other, franz absolutely dominated Barnes in the Magic’s back to back win against the raps.

Just looking at their numbers, all Franz has over the other two is PPG, 3pt% and FT%. He's a better shooter than them, that's it. They both crush him as rebounders, Scottie is the superior passer, Mobley is more efficient from the field, they're both better shot blockers and they both have less turnovers on the season than Franz.
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