NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[bisme37]

To me its still Tatum.

Celtics are still the best team in the league. Unless they get surpassed record wise why would it not be him?

Because being the best player on the best team is probably the dumbest criteria ever for an MVP, that's why. But since the voters rely mostly on a narrative, you're right, why not?

Edit: on a side note, is this poll based on who we think "will" be MVP based on the season so far, or based on who we think "should" be MVP based on the season so far? Or what we think will happen after the season?

I mean it's the Most Valuable Player award. Not "guy who scored a bunch of points the night before" and not even "Best Player."

And since the whole point of this thing is to win basketball games, I take it as "most valuable to winning."

There are several great MVP candidates who all impact winning, but to mock the "best player on best team" criteria seems to miss the point of the award imo.

And I'll also add it seems like some of the Tatum detractors are trying to paint his case for MVP as only being the best player on the best team. Which ignores that he's also passing the eye and stats test and is playing like an MVP.

[greekbuck34]

Regular basis? This looks to be an end of game situation and a miscommunication by the Raptors.

If there's a compilation out there of the "entire opposing team guarding him" out there, I haven't seen it. The Raptors played this very poorly.

This has been going on for years. In Milwaukee, we're used to seeing this kind of photo.And no, I'm not going to spend the time finding them.

Building a wall against Giannis is a regular thing. Not all coaches utilize it, but many, including Nick Nurse, do. Can you imagine any coach doing that with Tatum? He's just not as impactful.

Oh, ok, so we can make claims without evidence...then yeah, I've seen other superstars "regularly guarded by the entire opposing team" too. Happens every game to Tatum, Luka, Jokic!

Since you mentioned Tatum:

Are we seriously going to ask for evidence about who attracts the most defenders inside the paint?
Nobody comes close to Giannis the last 5-6 years. We are talking about Shaq level dominance in that area so this kind of defense is unavoidable.
You don't need photos. Just watch a random game.
3-4 man walls in transition, above the break in the half court and when he drives every single time. It's like a magnet and it becomes even worse when the Bucks shoot like crap which is like 5 days of the week.

[GeorgeSears]

My rankings haven't changed that much:

1. Luka
2. Tatum
3. Jokic

lurking: Durant, Giannis

Embiid is pretty much out of the discussion. He's missed 10 games; we know that 12 is the max a player can miss and win the award. It is what it is.

[BmanInBigD]

To me its still Tatum.

Celtics are still the best team in the league. Unless they get surpassed record wise why would it not be him?

Because being the best player on the best team is probably the dumbest criteria ever for an MVP, that's why. But since the voters rely mostly on a narrative, you're right, why not?

Edit: on a side note, is this poll based on who we think "will" be MVP based on the season so far, or based on who we think "should" be MVP based on the season so far? Or what we think will happen after the season?

I mean it's the Most Valuable Player award. Not "guy who scored a bunch of points the night before" and not even "Best Player."

And since the whole point of this thing is to win basketball games, I take it as "most valuable to winning."

There are several great MVP candidates who all impact winning, but to mock the "best player on best team" criteria seems to miss the point of the award imo.

And I'll also add it seems like some of the Tatum detractors are trying to paint his case for MVP as only being the best player on the best team. Which ignores that he's also passing the eye and stats test and is playing like an MVP.

He doesn’t pass the eye test (unless your goggles are green) or stats test (advanced, not just box scores). That’s the point. He doesn’t pass either test, except his team, which is stacked AF, has a great record. Put Jokic or Luka with Jaylen Brown, Smart, and all those dudes and I’d bet their record would be better than it is now. But the lazy-ass journalists, most or all of whom have huge biases, and do no real analysis, get to decide. If Tatum wins, unless he really ups his game, it’ll be strictly due to uninformed, lazy sports writers who just like the guy, get caught up in the narrative, and want to reward him. I don’t even really care cuz the MVP award has been a little ridiculous for decades. People on here (for the most part) know a lot more than SAS, Perk, Shaq, etc about how good and valuable players really are.

[Hello Brooklyn]

The Jokic D Riders are still acting like hes the next Wilt Chamberlain.

His stats are not that groundbreaking. Yes theyre very good. Better than Tatums.

But Tatum is a far better defender than Jokic is.

And the Celtics have a slightly better record in a tougher conference. So I give him the edge.

Could you say its Jokic? Fine. But to me its not clear cut at all.

Frankly I think Jokic has a far better case this year than last year.

[BmanInBigD]

The Jokic D Riders are still acting like hes the next Wilt Chamberlain.

His stats are not that groundbreaking. Yes theyre very good. Better than Tatums.

But Tatum is a far better defender than Jokic is.

And the Celtics have a slightly better record in a tougher conference. So I give him the edge.

Could you say its Jokic? Fine. But to me its not clear cut at all.

Frankly I think Jokic has a far better case this year than last year.

A slightly better record should only matter in determining home court advantage. What a terrible take. That you, Stephen A?

[Hello Brooklyn]

The Jokic D Riders are still acting like hes the next Wilt Chamberlain.

His stats are not that groundbreaking. Yes theyre very good. Better than Tatums.

But Tatum is a far better defender than Jokic is.

And the Celtics have a slightly better record in a tougher conference. So I give him the edge.

Could you say its Jokic? Fine. But to me its not clear cut at all.

Frankly I think Jokic has a far better case this year than last year.

A slightly better record should only matter in determining home court advantage. What a terrible take. That you, Stephen A?

Youre right winning doesn't matter at all!!!

Lets just look at stats.

You nerds have ruined basketball low key.

[BmanInBigD]

The Jokic D Riders are still acting like hes the next Wilt Chamberlain.

His stats are not that groundbreaking. Yes theyre very good. Better than Tatums.

But Tatum is a far better defender than Jokic is.

And the Celtics have a slightly better record in a tougher conference. So I give him the edge.

Could you say its Jokic? Fine. But to me its not clear cut at all.

Frankly I think Jokic has a far better case this year than last year.

A slightly better record should only matter in determining home court advantage. What a terrible take. That you, Stephen A?

Youre right winning doesn't matter at all!!!

Lets just look at stats.

You nerds have ruined basketball low key.

TEAMS win. Players play, some better than others. Some a LOT better than others.

But you’re right, team success is all that matters for individual awards!!!

Let’s just look at team records.

You shallow-thinking idiots have ruined basketball low key (whatever tf that means).

[CobraCommander]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-jan-6-2023-edition

For the people that hate jokic guess what!? After all those nuclear games - 60 this 50 that - omg 71 and guess what ?

Jokic is still number 1 on the ladder -

Tatum 2 - wow

KD 3…

Sorry guys Luka 4

And Giannis 5

Sorry people jokic is still the best

[BigGargamel]

Every time you think Jokic can't possibly have a better season than the last, he goes and does it. Might seriously average a triple double this year, shooting 60% from the field with over a steal a game. Leads the league in PER. His team is one game away from having the entire best record in the NBA with no other player on the roster close to all star status (except mayyyyyyyyyyyyybe Gordon).

Luka, Durant and Tatum are having tremendous years, but there really is nothing at all you can say in defense of anyone other than Jokic. He is passing all criteria.

[antonac]

The nuggets record is 26-13 and they're first in the west.

The Celtics are 27-12 and they're first in the east.

Whatever separates jokic and Tatum is not record.

Gonna be fair to Gordon on the help narrative though, he's having a career year and has been great.

[LessEyeTest]

The Jokic D Riders are still acting like hes the next Wilt Chamberlain.

His stats are not that groundbreaking. Yes theyre very good. Better than Tatums.

But Tatum is a far better defender than Jokic is.

And the Celtics have a slightly better record in a tougher conference. So I give him the edge.

Could you say its Jokic? Fine. But to me its not clear cut at all.

Frankly I think Jokic has a far better case this year than last year.

Actually he *is* playing like the next Wilt. Seemingly every week he's got another record where the only other person to do it is Wilt himself.

In regards to Tatum, yes he's obviously a more gifted athlete ("defender") and has tons of elite/great defenders all around him but even then how much real impact can a wing defender have in this league? Brown, Horford, Smart, Grant Williams, Derrick White, Malcolm Brogdon and now Robert Williams coming back. A loaded roster like that *should* have a better record than the 1-man team known as the Nuggets lol.

[AleksandarN]

This is Jokic. I truly think an all time great basketball iQ

Read on Twitter

[Infinite Llamas]

“Jokic d-riders” like he’s some scrub people are trying to artificially pump by just numbers. lol

Anyone who watches Denver sees his impact on every offensive possession that Denver plays. The powerful screens and the secondary actions. Leading guys to the right spot just with his eyes sometimes. It’s all on display and Jokic is orchestrating it all.

It’s his consistency that should be most celebrated though. He just doesn’t seem to have bad games.

[RB34]

Another efficient game from Joker, knocking off one of the best teams in the league.

[Hello Brooklyn]

A slightly better record should only matter in determining home court advantage. What a terrible take. That you, Stephen A?

Youre right winning doesn't matter at all!!!

Lets just look at stats.

You nerds have ruined basketball low key.

TEAMS win. Players play, some better than others. Some a LOT better than others.

But you’re right, team success is all that matters for individual awards!!!

Let’s just look at team records.

You shallow-thinking idiots have ruined basketball low key (whatever tf that means).

Team success always matters to individual awards. Look at the history of MVP winners.

Its not a who has the best stats award. Get a clue.

[Hello Brooklyn]

“Jokic d-riders” like he’s some scrub people are trying to artificially pump by just numbers. lol

Anyone who watches Denver sees his impact on every offensive possession that Denver plays. The powerful screens and the secondary actions. Leading guys to the right spot just with his eyes sometimes. It’s all on display and Jokic is orchestrating it all.

It’s his consistency that should be most celebrated though. He just doesn’t seem to have bad games.

Jokic should not be a 3 time MVP winner period.

Nobody saying hes not an impact player.

[Cubbies2120]

Youre right winning doesn't matter at all!!!

Lets just look at stats.

You nerds have ruined basketball low key.

TEAMS win. Players play, some better than others. Some a LOT better than others.

But you’re right, team success is all that matters for individual awards!!!

Let’s just look at team records.

You shallow-thinking idiots have ruined basketball low key (whatever tf that means).

Team success always matters to individual awards. Look at the history of MVP winners.

Its not a who has the best stats award. Get a clue.

They're #2 in the league right now...

There have been 3x MVPs who got their 3rd MVP before their first ring...Moses Malone won his 3rd before winning a ring, Wilt won his 3rd before winning a ring, LeBron won his 3rd before winning a ring...

He's putting up insane numbers, AND his team is winning.

[Infinite Llamas]

“Jokic d-riders” like he’s some scrub people are trying to artificially pump by just numbers. lol

Anyone who watches Denver sees his impact on every offensive possession that Denver plays. The powerful screens and the secondary actions. Leading guys to the right spot just with his eyes sometimes. It’s all on display and Jokic is orchestrating it all.

It’s his consistency that should be most celebrated though. He just doesn’t seem to have bad games.

Jokic should not be a 3 time MVP winner period.

Nobody saying hes not an impact player.

Thank you for the emotional response.

Logic will usually prevail over emotion though.

People need to emotionally detach themselves from their preconceived notions of Joker at this point and use the eye test and the numbers as a guide. There is not a single more impactful player on the offensive end.

[Hello Brooklyn]

TEAMS win. Players play, some better than others. Some a LOT better than others.

But you’re right, team success is all that matters for individual awards!!!

Let’s just look at team records.

You shallow-thinking idiots have ruined basketball low key (whatever tf that means).

Team success always matters to individual awards. Look at the history of MVP winners.

Its not a who has the best stats award. Get a clue.

They're #2 in the league right now...

There have been 3x MVPs who got their 3rd MVP before their first ring...Moses Malone won his 3rd before winning a ring, Wilt won his 3rd before winning a ring, LeBron won his 3rd before winning a ring...

He's putting up insane numbers, AND his team is winning.

Yes I agree. Which is why I said Jokic should be in consideration.

I don't think he should have won last year.