If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

[BostonCouchGM]

all I know is there were people irrationally high on Mobley and didn't listen when people were skeptical of his shooting and willingness to play down low. I tried telling people that he sees himself as a SF but without the handle and shot he simply can't play that style. Not embracing playing down low and doing the dirty work thus negates his size and length advantage and reason he is such a good prospect. He has not improved AT ALL and people should be very concerned. He'll be lucky to be the next Myles Turner rather than the next AD as so many were saying at this rate.

[thelead]

I'll take Franz, then Mobley

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

I'll take Franz, then Mobley

I've never seen a team with the 5th worst record in the league so confident they got the best player in the draft two years in a row

The Magic have the #26 ranked offense and #25 defense

The Cavs had the #25 ranked defense the year before adding Mobley, with Allen playing most of the year

They had the #7 defense last year, #2 this year

I know offense is all the rage, but man, will defense ever get any credit, ever?

[jbk1234]

all I know is there were people irrationally high on Mobley and didn't listen when people were skeptical of his shooting and willingness to play down low. I tried telling people that he sees himself as a SF but without the handle and shot he simply can't play that style. Not embracing playing down low and doing the dirty work thus negates his size and length advantage and reason he is such a good prospect. He has not improved AT ALL and people should be very concerned. He'll be lucky to be the next Myles Turner rather than the next AD as so many were saying at this rate.

This take will not age well.

[KillMonger]

I'll take Franz, then Mobley

I've never seen a team with the 5th worst record in the league so confident they got the best player in the draft two years in a row

The Magic have the #26 ranked offense and #25 defense

The Cavs had the #25 ranked defense the year before adding Mobley, with Allen playing most of the year

They had the #7 defense last year, #2 this year

I know offense is all the rage, but man, will defense ever get any credit, ever?

i mean....to be fair we are talking about players not teams....personally i still think it's too early to say but....here we are

[basketballRob]

I'll take Franz, then Mobley

I've never seen a team with the 5th worst record in the league so confident they got the best player in the draft two years in a row

The Magic have the #26 ranked offense and #25 defense

The Cavs had the #25 ranked defense the year before adding Mobley, with Allen playing most of the year

They had the #7 defense last year, #2 this year

I know offense is all the rage, but man, will defense ever get any credit, ever?

Isaac will be back soon and improve the defense.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[OrlMagic05]

Idk why people think there's "nothing special" about a 6'10 wing who moves fluidly with the ball, has a nice and reliable looking shot, shoots 85% from the line and league average from 3, and is a willing and capable passer, and who has very good court awareness. Maybe he doesn't have one stand-out elite skill but he's very good at a lot of facets of basketball. My biggest criticism of him remains his weakness and softness on the boards. He should be a much better rebounder than he is at his height. I don't want to hear the excuses from Magic fans that you have a big frontcourt and he's not needed on the boards - if you're being honest with yourselves, you know he's a poor rebounder.

Anyways, look at a guy like Jalen Green who has one truly elite attribute - his dribble separation ability coupled with explosive athleticism. But he's not good at anything else. He can't impact the game as much as someone like Franz because he doesn't have all the basketball skills Franz does. I can see how a trajectory for how Franz can become a top 20 player by improving and polishing the skills he already has, whereas a guy like Green has a long way to go toward becoming an impact player. Franz is pretty clearly the best player in this draft class so far, maybe he peaks as a couple of time All-Star, and maybe he makes ten teams. What's for certain is that other top prospects like Barnes, Cade, Green, etc. are the ones who have to prove they're better than Franz right now, not vice versa.

i'm not a fan of Green personally, I dislke that playstyle and culture

yes, his shooting is his best skill and his ft% is a good indicator he'll be shooting 40% from 3 when he developes further and gains experience

making 10 all star teams is a huge stretch but peaking at a couple of AS teams is def plausible
how likely is that? not very likely imo

he really lacks good defensive instincts - maybe he can his defense to passable level but i'd be shocked if he'll become a good NBA defender

how come a capable and willing passer, whose 6'10 and moves so "fluidly" with the ball manages only 3.5 AST and 2.2 TO, on 33 mpg with 25% usage?

capable and willing passers make good passes

here's where I see Franz as being capped:
he's been shooting well from 2p range, over 53% this season
the only actual skill Franz has rn that is elite - is shooting. Now, since he is a negative on the court defensively you have to run a good amount of offense thru him, if he isn't shooting - he is contributing very little

when you do run ur offense thru him, he's not a good enough playmaker to actually warrant that, that leaves you mosly with trying to get him good shots, on big volume kinda like MPJ for instance

is it valuable to have this type of player? sure - but that's 3rd or 4th best player on a good team

that kind of player still needs to be set up and he doesn't really make the players around him better and tbh it's even worse, because he's not getting extra possesions for his team (via rebounding on either end, steals\blocks etc.) in fact he's very below average in that regard so you could argue he's making his teammates "worse"

poor defense, poor all around game
scoring isn't everything

he'll need to carry a serious offensive load to justifiy a big contract
it's one thing now on a rookie deal, but imagine paying a max rookie extention...that's kind of hefty for what he actually brings to the table

now again, he's young maybe he breakes out starting tomorrow, or next season or in 4 seasons
point is as of now he hasn't shown that he can be any kind of difference maker

I guess his best case scenario would be something like this version of 2023 Lauri

This is how I know you dont watch Franz play. He was our starting PG for almost the first 20 games of the season and offense was run thru him and Paolo. His ast did drop once Fultz came back.

Lauri is having a breakout season in his 6th year in the league and was NEVER efficient. Prior to this year his best shooting year was his 4th year in the league and still wasnt as efficient as Franz is this year.

Not sure how many 2nd year players have averaged 20ppg 4ast 4 rebs 49%FG 35%3pt in the past 5 years so I think he deserves a lot more credit than what you are giving him.

[OrlMagic05]

I'll take Franz, then Mobley

I've never seen a team with the 5th worst record in the league so confident they got the best player in the draft two years in a row

The Magic have the #26 ranked offense and #25 defense

The Cavs had the #25 ranked defense the year before adding Mobley, with Allen playing most of the year

They had the #7 defense last year, #2 this year

I know offense is all the rage, but man, will defense ever get any credit, ever?

You are comparing an up and coming team like the Magic to the Cavs who have arguably the best backcourt in the east if not the NBA, so knocking their record isnt fair. Put Mobley on the Magic and lets see how much people's stance on him would change.

[OrlMagic05]

all I know is there were people irrationally high on Mobley and didn't listen when people were skeptical of his shooting and willingness to play down low. I tried telling people that he sees himself as a SF but without the handle and shot he simply can't play that style. Not embracing playing down low and doing the dirty work thus negates his size and length advantage and reason he is such a good prospect. He has not improved AT ALL and people should be very concerned. He'll be lucky to be the next Myles Turner rather than the next AD as so many were saying at this rate.

This take will not age well.

I mean not trying to knock Mobley, because he is a very good player, but he won't be the next AD. AD was already putting up 21 10 & 3 in his 2nd season, compared to 15 9 and 1. His trajectory actually lines up very close to Myles Turner which isnt a bad thing. I think Mobley gets a lot of credit for how good the Cav's have gotten, but dont take into effect that they legit have the best backcourt and a great supporting cast.

[OrlMagic05]

Barnes has owned Mobley in their head to head matchups this season.

If we’re basing this off individual game performances against each other, franz absolutely dominated Barnes in the Magic’s back to back win against the raps.

Just looking at their numbers, all Franz has over the other two is PPG, 3pt% and FT%. He's a better shooter than them, that's it. They both crush him as rebounders, Scottie is the superior passer, Mobley is more efficient from the field, they're both better shot blockers and they both have less turnovers on the season than Franz.

LMAO

"the only thing you do is score more, shoot it better are better at the 3, but hey I pass the ball flashier than you and am more athletic"

20ppg 4rebs 4 ast 49%FG 35%3pt
15ppg 7reb 5ast 45%FG 29%3pt
14ppg 9reb 3ast 55%FG 21%3pt

So Scottie is a superior passer, but only averages 1ast more. Mobley is more efficient only shoots 10.5 shots per game. Barnes doesnt even average a block per game so that is a useless stat that you threw out and Barnes and Franz average the same number of turnovers, so that is false.

[mcfly1204]

all I know is there were people irrationally high on Mobley and didn't listen when people were skeptical of his shooting and willingness to play down low. I tried telling people that he sees himself as a SF but without the handle and shot he simply can't play that style. Not embracing playing down low and doing the dirty work thus negates his size and length advantage and reason he is such a good prospect. He has not improved AT ALL and people should be very concerned. He'll be lucky to be the next Myles Turner rather than the next AD as so many were saying at this rate.

This take will not age well.

I mean not trying to knock Mobley, because he is a very good player, but he won't be the next AD. AD was already putting up 21 10 & 3 in his 2nd season, compared to 15 9 and 1. His trajectory actually lines up very close to Myles Turner which isnt a bad thing. I think Mobley gets a lot of credit for how good the Cav's have gotten, but dont take into effect that they legit have the best backcourt and a great supporting cast.

Keep in mind that Davis's year 2 team ended up with a 34-48 record... They are just not good comparisons given Mobley is option 3/4 with the Cavs, and AD was option 1A/B next to Ryan Anderson. That squad also did not have a legitimate rebounder next to Davis, whereas Mobley plays next to Allen. Kawhi did not break out until year 5, because San Antonio had no need to rush his development. I think he is a better development comp.

[Reeko]

If we’re basing this off individual game performances against each other, franz absolutely dominated Barnes in the Magic’s back to back win against the raps.

Just looking at their numbers, all Franz has over the other two is PPG, 3pt% and FT%. He's a better shooter than them, that's it. They both crush him as rebounders, Scottie is the superior passer, Mobley is more efficient from the field, they're both better shot blockers and they both have less turnovers on the season than Franz.

LMAO

"the only thing you do is score more, shoot it better are better at the 3, but hey I pass the ball flashier than you and am more athletic"

20ppg 4rebs 4 ast 49%FG 35%3pt
15ppg 7reb 5ast 45%FG 29%3pt
14ppg 9reb 3ast 55%FG 21%3pt

So Scottie is a superior passer, but only averages 1ast more. Mobley is more efficient only shoots 10.5 shots per game. Barnes doesnt even average a block per game so that is a useless stat that you threw out and Barnes and Franz average the same number of turnovers, so that is false.

0.8>0.2. Scottie is damn near a block per game and Franz is pretty much a 0, so no it's not a useless stat. Barnes has an AST% that's 4% higher despite having a USG% that is 4% lower, so no he doesn't just "pass the ball flashier", he's a better and more willing passer than Franz.

Everything I said is valid. But if all basketball is to you is PPG and shooting percentages then there really is no point in continuing this discussion.

[OrlMagic05]

Just looking at their numbers, all Franz has over the other two is PPG, 3pt% and FT%. He's a better shooter than them, that's it. They both crush him as rebounders, Scottie is the superior passer, Mobley is more efficient from the field, they're both better shot blockers and they both have less turnovers on the season than Franz.

LMAO

"the only thing you do is score more, shoot it better are better at the 3, but hey I pass the ball flashier than you and am more athletic"

20ppg 4rebs 4 ast 49%FG 35%3pt
15ppg 7reb 5ast 45%FG 29%3pt
14ppg 9reb 3ast 55%FG 21%3pt

So Scottie is a superior passer, but only averages 1ast more. Mobley is more efficient only shoots 10.5 shots per game. Barnes doesnt even average a block per game so that is a useless stat that you threw out and Barnes and Franz average the same number of turnovers, so that is false.

0.8>0.2. Scottie is damn near a block per game and Franz is pretty much a 0, so no it's not a useless stat. Barnes has an AST% that's 4% higher despite having a USG% that is 4% lower, so no he doesn't just "pass the ball flashier", he's a better and more willing passer than Franz.

Everything I said is valid. But if all basketball is to you is PPG and shooting percentages then there really is no point in continuing this discussion.

You care to ignore more important stats to benefit your argument. but, i'll play along. If you are going to say .8> .2 than 20ppg>15PPG That is a significant difference and makes more of an impact than your argument of .6 more blocks, ast% which is 4% higher (LOL btw).

Not saying Barnes is bad, but as of RIGHT NOW, THIS VERY MOMENT, Franz is the better player. This could change, but AS OF RIGHT NOW.

[lilswift01]

You can't just look at those per game stats and make any type of final conclusion. Franz and Jalen have significantly higher usage% than Mobley or even Barnes. They are basically high in the pecking order of their teams because lack of better options. You can't just say 15 ppg is better than 20ppg when the latter is a #1a option the the former is more like 4 or 5. Makes no sense

[OrlMagic05]

You can't just look at those per game stats and make any type of final conclusion. Franz and Jalen have significantly higher usage% than Mobley or even Barnes. They are basically high in the pecking order of their teams because lack of better options. You can't just say 15 ppg is better than 20ppg when the latter is a #1a option the the former is more like 4 or 5. Makes no sense

You can when the 20ppg scorer is scoring more on better efficiency than the 15ppg scorer. Maybe thats the reason that Franz has a higher usage rate than some is because he is producing at a better efficiency. I could see the argument of Jalen Green as he is averaging 21PPG on 40% shooting, but Franz is shooting 49% from the field and 35% from 3.

[Jadoogar]

all I know is there were people irrationally high on Mobley and didn't listen when people were skeptical of his shooting and willingness to play down low. I tried telling people that he sees himself as a SF but without the handle and shot he simply can't play that style. Not embracing playing down low and doing the dirty work thus negates his size and length advantage and reason he is such a good prospect. He has not improved AT ALL and people should be very concerned. He'll be lucky to be the next Myles Turner rather than the next AD as so many were saying at this rate.

This take will not age well.

I mean not trying to knock Mobley, because he is a very good player, but he won't be the next AD. AD was already putting up 21 10 & 3 in his 2nd season, compared to 15 9 and 1. His trajectory actually lines up very close to Myles Turner which isnt a bad thing. I think Mobley gets a lot of credit for how good the Cav's have gotten, but dont take into effect that they legit have the best backcourt and a great supporting cast.

AD was far and way the #1 option on his team. Mobley is playing with 2 scoring minded guards and is third (if that) option in most lineups. It's hard to compare his numbers directly with AD.

I'm not saying he's going to be as good as AD (who was an incredible prospect) but it's not fair to compare their scoring numbers and Mobley is already an incredible defender.

[lilswift01]

You can't just look at those per game stats and make any type of final conclusion. Franz and Jalen have significantly higher usage% than Mobley or even Barnes. They are basically high in the pecking order of their teams because lack of better options. You can't just say 15 ppg is better than 20ppg when the latter is a #1a option the the former is more like 4 or 5. Makes no sense

You can when the 20ppg scorer is scoring more on better efficiency than the 15ppg scorer. Maybe thats the reason that Franz has a higher usage rate than some is because he is producing at a better efficiency. I could see the argument of Jalen Green as he is averaging 21PPG on 40% shooting, but Franz is shooting 49% from the field and 35% from 3.

Ok thought expirement. Do you think Franz would average 20 playing behind garland, mitchell and sharing posessions with Allen, Love and the rest of the team?

[OrlMagic05]

You can't just look at those per game stats and make any type of final conclusion. Franz and Jalen have significantly higher usage% than Mobley or even Barnes. They are basically high in the pecking order of their teams because lack of better options. You can't just say 15 ppg is better than 20ppg when the latter is a #1a option the the former is more like 4 or 5. Makes no sense

You can when the 20ppg scorer is scoring more on better efficiency than the 15ppg scorer. Maybe thats the reason that Franz has a higher usage rate than some is because he is producing at a better efficiency. I could see the argument of Jalen Green as he is averaging 21PPG on 40% shooting, but Franz is shooting 49% from the field and 35% from 3.

Ok thought expirement. Do you think Franz would average 20 playing behind garland, mitchell and sharing posessions with Allen, Love and the rest of the team?

Probably not due to him needing the ball in his hands, and Mitchell being a ball dominant guard, but in reverse do you think Mobley could average 20ppg on the Magic (Efficiently) when the defense has to focus only on you and a Magic team that has absolutely no 3point shooters to pull defenders from the paint?

[GelbeWand09]

You can't just look at those per game stats and make any type of final conclusion. Franz and Jalen have significantly higher usage% than Mobley or even Barnes. They are basically high in the pecking order of their teams because lack of better options. You can't just say 15 ppg is better than 20ppg when the latter is a #1a option the the former is more like 4 or 5. Makes no sense

Barnes had the chance this season when Siakam & co were injured. He failed. Franz is better at creating his own shots, thats the reason. Franz got the better handle, got a great euro & can glide past defenders. When he gets to the rim, he is a elite finisher. Barnes has high hips + worse handle & isnt even more explosive to counter that. Barnes is a great talent and maybe ends up as the better player but probably not because he becomes a better scorer. More because he becomes a great all around/high impact player.
Franz ist just more skilled in most scoring areas than him.

[shi-woo]

I'll take Franz, then Mobley

I've never seen a team with the 5th worst record in the league so confident they got the best player in the draft two years in a row

The Magic have the #26 ranked offense and #25 defense

The Cavs had the #25 ranked defense the year before adding Mobley, with Allen playing most of the year

They had the #7 defense last year, #2 this year

I know offense is all the rage, but man, will defense ever get any credit, ever?

I think Mobley gets the credit he deserves, and most people are huge fans of his. He's one of those players that had a skill set that shines on solid teams, and because of that he's looked great playing for a Cavs team looking to make the jump.

I think the argument for Franz is that it's much more rare to find legit wings with size that can play like he does. 20-4-4 on 49/35/86 shooting on a 6'9 body at age 21 is legit. Watching Franz play and he's just as smooth on the offensive end as Evan is on the defensive end. He just makes things happen.

Mobley to be the best player he can be, needs a guy like Franz who can score and create offense. Franze to be the best player he can be needs a guy like Mobley to finish plays and hold down the defense.

It's really a matter of preference, but I think both teams and fanbases should be stoked they got the player they did.