How would this 1980s team do against modern teams

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

First rule the 1980s team only gets 2 points if they shoot a 3 but the modern team gets 3 points for 3s.
The 1982 Lakers basically could not shoot 3s and did not shoot 3s.
Some Lakers eventually became 3 point shooter but that irrelevant for this thread.
1984 Celtics barely shot 3s.


I am taking 1982 Lakers because they had an increasable fast break and 1984 Celtics because the won the 1984 championship by dominating the Lakers in the offensive boards-

From the 1982 Lakers:

Kareem, Mcadoo, Wilkes, Cooper, Magic, Norm Nixon

From the 1984 Celtics:

Parish, McHale, Bird, Cedric Maxwell, Dennis Johnson, Gerald Henderson.


They certainly are deep but does modern 3 point shooting or modern players beat them?

[Doctor MJ]

First rule the 1980s team only gets 2 points if they shoot a 3 but the modern team gets 3 points for 3s.

<details that don't really change anything>

They certainly are deep but does modern 3 point shooting or modern players beat them?

Yes, a quality modern team beats them. It's just an unfair rule/strategy advantage.

[homecourtloss]

First rule the 1980s team only gets 2 points if they shoot a 3 but the modern team gets 3 points for 3s.
The 1982 Lakers basically could not shoot 3s and did not shoot 3s.
Some Lakers eventually became 3 point shooter but that irrelevant for this thread.
1984 Celtics barely shot 3s.


I am taking 1982 Lakers because they had an increasable fast break and 1984 Celtics because the won the 1984 championship by dominating the Lakers in the offensive boards-

From the 1982 Lakers:

Kareem, Mcadoo, Wilkes, Cooper, Magic, Norm Nixon

From the 1984 Celtics:

Parish, McHale, Bird, Cedric Maxwell, Dennis Johnson, Gerald Henderson.


They certainly are deep but does modern 3 point shooting or modern players beat them?

Yes they do.

As it is, a modern team playing against a team that does not shoot three pointers would feel like it’s resting on defense because of how little ground it woukd have to cover compared to today when you have to come out to 30 to 35 feet from the basket. Now, if you also make it that even if the opposition did make a three pointer that it would only count for two points then they basically wouldn’t even have to move much at all on defense and would be able to cover a compact area effectively. Obviously Kareem and Magic and Bird would still be difficult to defend but modern defenses not extending to defend threes would be much more effective against them.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

First rule the 1980s team only gets 2 points if they shoot a 3 but the modern team gets 3 points for 3s.

<details that don't really change anything>

They certainly are deep but does modern 3 point shooting or modern players beat them?

Yes, a quality modern team beats them. It's just an unfair rule/strategy advantage.

If I let the 1980s team shoot 3s I get into the problem of how many 3s would the 1980s team shoot if the 1980s team knew it should shoot 3s? You don’t want the 1980s team shooting 3s until they improve their 3 point shooting. Many of the early 1980s team did become decent percentage 3 point shooters by the late 1980s but their 3 point shooting volume was still low.

I was tempted to change Norm Nixon into best of the combined skills of Nixon and Curry which would be a monster player because Nixon was so much faster than Curry. And turn Wilkes into the best of the combined skills of Wilkes and Klay. Then I would say that the only players allowed to shoot 3s would be Nixon-Curry and Wilkes-Klay. Lets give them one more, Dennis Johnson-Jordan Cobines skills.
Dennis Johnson did not even shoot 2s well but Poole fixes DJ’s shooting, DJ fixes Poole’s defense.

If I fuse Curry, Klay and Poole onto the 1982 Lakers players and let those 3 guys shoot 3s then I become totally sure that the 1980s team + Warriors win even though the other 9 1980s players are not allowed to shoot 3s.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

First rule the 1980s team only gets 2 points if they shoot a 3 but the modern team gets 3 points for 3s.
The 1982 Lakers basically could not shoot 3s and did not shoot 3s.
Some Lakers eventually became 3 point shooter but that irrelevant for this thread.
1984 Celtics barely shot 3s.


I am taking 1982 Lakers because they had an increasable fast break and 1984 Celtics because the won the 1984 championship by dominating the Lakers in the offensive boards-

From the 1982 Lakers:

Kareem, Mcadoo, Wilkes, Cooper, Magic, Norm Nixon

From the 1984 Celtics:

Parish, McHale, Bird, Cedric Maxwell, Dennis Johnson, Gerald Henderson.


They certainly are deep but does modern 3 point shooting or modern players beat them?

Yes they do.

As it is, a modern team playing against a team that does not shoot three pointers would feel like it’s resting on defense because of how little ground it woukd have to cover compared to today when you have to come out to 30 to 35 feet from the basket. Now, if you also make it that even if the opposition did make a three pointer that it would only count for two points then they basically wouldn’t even have to move much at all on defense and would be able to cover a compact area effectively. Obviously Kareem and Magic and Bird would still be difficult to defend but modern defenses not extending to defend threes would be much more effective against them.

Although 3s create space in the for efficient 2s those 1980s teams were efficient at 2s. But the 2021 Bucks did have a significant edge over the 1982 Lakers in true shooting percentage. 1984 Celtics shot worse than the 1984 Lakers but won the 1984 funaks with offensive rebounding. I think the 1984 Celtics could also dominate the offensive boards against any modern team.

Then I am letting Bird and Magic play together and I think them playing together might improve shooting percentages.

[tsherkin]

I can't imagine LA would do very well defending modern screen-and-roll action, having never seen it before, nor would they do terribly well getting obliterated from downtown. 82 Lakers as they stood would also be the third-worst offense in the league if they maintained their ORTG from their own time. They'd be the fastest team in the league, but their efficiency just wasn't there and the turnover rate they posted would be the worst in the league in 2023. You can envision their offensive rebounding helping them some, though with the proliferation of 3PAr from the modern team, that ORB% would drop. Every mistake they made on the offensive end could potentially turn into more of a fastbreak against them, though, given how many of them would be out of position to defend in transition and they wouldn't be quite as effective going the other way.

Magic would do well, mostly. They'd try to slow it down and run it inside to Kareem to take advantage of mismatches there and that would be a good call. They were amazing in their own time, they'd just be strategically outclassed without adaptation versus a modern team.

You'd find a similar story with the Celtics.

[penbeast0]

If I let the 1980s team shoot 3s I get into the problem of how many 3s would the 1980s team shoot if the 1980s team knew it should shoot 3s?...

We could call the team the Would Chucks

[picko]

Neither the 1982 Lakers or 1984 Celtics are going to be particularly competitive when they are playing with a 10 to 16 point handicap every night (based on the range for 3's made in the NBA this season).

For context the 1982 Lakers had a +4.7 point differential per 100 possessions and the 1984 Celtics had a +6.5 point differential. The gap between the 1982 Lakers and the league's worst net rating was 13.2 and the gap for the 1984 Celtics was 11.6.

So a handicap of 10 to 16 points each game would likely see the 1982 Lakers and 1984 Celtics with the worst record in the league.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

If I let the 1980s team shoot 3s I get into the problem of how many 3s would the 1980s team shoot if the 1980s team knew it should shoot 3s?...

We could call the team the Would Chucks

Yes, exactly.



How many 3s would a 1980s team chuck if a 1980s team knew it should chuck 3s.
How many 3s would a 1980s team chuck if a 1980s team could chuck 3s.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Neither the 1982 Lakers or 1984 Celtics are going to be particularly competitive when they are playing with a 10 to 16 point handicap every night (based on the range for 3's made in the NBA this season).

For context the 1982 Lakers had a +4.7 point differential per 100 possessions and the 1984 Celtics had a +6.5 point differential. The gap between the 1982 Lakers and the league's worst net rating was 13.2 and the gap for the 1984 Celtics was 11.6.

So a handicap of 10 to 16 points each game would likely see the 1982 Lakers and 1984 Celtics with the worst record in the league.

They had better shoot their 2s at 60%
Bird and Magic together will increase shooting percentage but not to 60%
1984 Celtics would dominate every current team on the offensive boards but not by enough to make up for modern teams shooting 3s.
With that kind of depth they won’t tire and will be able to play 198os starter quality players against current bench players.

1982 Lakers could run a team into exhaustion and the 1984 Celtics could pound a team on the boards into exhaustion and the combined depth and lack of need to avoid fouls the modern teams might get tired. But isn’t modern conditiong supposed to be better?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

NBa Average True shooting percentage by year.


1947 .326
1948 .337
1949 .390
1950 .410
1951 .428
1952 .438
1953 .445
1954 .430
1955 .455
1956 .458
1957 .449
1958 .449
1959 .457
1960 .463
1961 .469
1962 .479
1963 .493
1964 .485
1965 .479
1966 .487
1967 .493
1968 .498
1969 .491
1970 .511
1971 .500
1972 .504
1973 .498
1974 .503
1975 .502
1976 .504
1977 .511
1978 .515
1979 .530
1980 .531
1981 .534
1982 .539
1983 .531
1984 .543
1985 .543
1986 .541
1987 .538
1988 .538
1989 .537
1990 .537
1991 .534
1992 .531
1993 .536
1994 .528
1995 .543
1996 .542
1997 .536
1998 .524
1999 .511
2000 .523
2001 .518
2002 .520
2003 .519
2004 .516
2005 .529
2006 .536
2007 .541
2008 .540
2009 .544
2010 .543
2011 .541
2012 .527
2013 .535
2014 .541
2015 .534
2016 .541
2017 .552
2018 .556
2019 .560
2020 .563
2021 .572

Lets say an average NBA team had 100 possessions ending them having in shots or free throws then TS 57 produces 114 points where as TS 54 produces 108 points. This has modern teams winning by 6 points over early 1980s teams if they don’t have other advantages besides shooting. Actually it is less than 6 points because teams shoot less than 100 shots.

I think the people in this thread are overestimating the modern advantage.

[NbaAllDay]

NBa Average True shooting percentage by year.


1947 .326
1948 .337
1949 .390
1950 .410
1951 .428
1952 .438
1953 .445
1954 .430
1955 .455
1956 .458
1957 .449
1958 .449
1959 .457
1960 .463
1961 .469
1962 .479
1963 .493
1964 .485
1965 .479
1966 .487
1967 .493
1968 .498
1969 .491
1970 .511
1971 .500
1972 .504
1973 .498
1974 .503
1975 .502
1976 .504
1977 .511
1978 .515
1979 .530
1980 .531
1981 .534
1982 .539
1983 .531
1984 .543
1985 .543
1986 .541
1987 .538
1988 .538
1989 .537
1990 .537
1991 .534
1992 .531
1993 .536
1994 .528
1995 .543
1996 .542
1997 .536
1998 .524
1999 .511
2000 .523
2001 .518
2002 .520
2003 .519
2004 .516
2005 .529
2006 .536
2007 .541
2008 .540
2009 .544
2010 .543
2011 .541
2012 .527
2013 .535
2014 .541
2015 .534
2016 .541
2017 .552
2018 .556
2019 .560
2020 .563
2021 .572

Lets say an average NBA team had 100 possessions ending them having in shots or free throws then TS 57 produces 114 points where as TS 54 produces 108 points. This has modern teams winning by 6 points over early 1980s teams if they don’t have other advantages besides shooting. Actually it is less than 6 points because teams shoot less than 100 shots.

I think the people in this thread are overestimating the modern advantage.

I think you are underestimating how much the game has involved. Most of it has been explained above. The offensive and defense schemes are a fairly long way ahead now and the efficiency of scoring and spacing brought in by the use of the 3 pointer is too big to ignore.

Notice I haven't mentioned players are better or worse from any of the eras however the adjustment for the 80s teams is massive and if you ported them into 2023 they would struggle a lot.

[countryboy667]

When that kind of talent can be beaten by some modern team IMO that just illustrates how the mania for three pointers has ruined the game and made it less enjoyable to watch. Solution? eliminate that cheap-arse corner three that almost any decent HS player can hit regularly and move the arc out another three on four feet. Then only the elite shooters like Curry will legitimately benefit, and the fun-to-watch inside game between the bigs as in the past would be revived.

[Jaivl]

First rule the 1980s team only gets 2 points if they shoot a 3 but the modern team gets 3 points for 3s.

You have to buff the 80s players here, not nerf them. If they get 4 points for a 3 I might consider it...

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

When that kind of talent can be beaten by some modern team IMO that just illustrates how the mania for three pointers has ruined the game and made it less enjoyable to watch. Solution? eliminate that cheap-arse corner three that almost any decent HS player can hit regularly and move the arc out another three on four feet. Then only the elite shooters like Curry will legitimately benefit, and the fun-to-watch inside game between the bigs as in the past would be revived.

Popvitch goes crazy bitching about the 3 point shot ruining the game.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

First rule the 1980s team only gets 2 points if they shoot a 3 but the modern team gets 3 points for 3s.

You have to buff the 80s players here, not nerf them. If they get 4 points for a 3 I might consider it...

They shot the 3s so poorly that you would have to give them 4 points to get them to shoot 3s.

Bird said that nobody practiced 3s because they thought the 3 was a useless gimmick. Taking away the 3 from these guys that shot 3s horribly on the rare occasion that they did shoot 3s does not really hurt the 1982 Lakers or the 1984 Celics.

The 1980s coaches seriously screwed up by not understanding the value of 3s.

But i did not want to bring in projected imaginary 3 point shooting that they 1980s players should have been doing. Bird had a bad 3 point shooting year in 1984 but even when Bird was shooting 3s at 40% he was not shooting many 3s. Bird should have kept on shooting more 3s until defenses stopped him. Bird coukd have shot more 3s because defenses were not stopping him, By 1987 Cooper waa shooting 3s well. By 1990 Magic had become a 3 point shooter. So Cooper, Magic and Bird proved that they were potential 3 point shooters.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

NBa Average True shooting percentage by year.


1947 .326
1948 .337
1949 .390
1950 .410
1951 .428
1952 .438
1953 .445
1954 .430
1955 .455
1956 .458
1957 .449
1958 .449
1959 .457
1960 .463
1961 .469
1962 .479
1963 .493
1964 .485
1965 .479
1966 .487
1967 .493
1968 .498
1969 .491
1970 .511
1971 .500
1972 .504
1973 .498
1974 .503
1975 .502
1976 .504
1977 .511
1978 .515
1979 .530
1980 .531
1981 .534
1982 .539
1983 .531
1984 .543
1985 .543
1986 .541
1987 .538
1988 .538
1989 .537
1990 .537
1991 .534
1992 .531
1993 .536
1994 .528
1995 .543
1996 .542
1997 .536
1998 .524
1999 .511
2000 .523
2001 .518
2002 .520
2003 .519
2004 .516
2005 .529
2006 .536
2007 .541
2008 .540
2009 .544
2010 .543
2011 .541
2012 .527
2013 .535
2014 .541
2015 .534
2016 .541
2017 .552
2018 .556
2019 .560
2020 .563
2021 .572

Lets say an average NBA team had 100 possessions ending them having in shots or free throws then TS 57 produces 114 points where as TS 54 produces 108 points. This has modern teams winning by 6 points over early 1980s teams if they don’t have other advantages besides shooting. Actually it is less than 6 points because teams shoot less than 100 shots.

I think the people in this thread are overestimating the modern advantage.

I think you are underestimating how much the game has involved. Most of it has been explained above. The offensive and defense schemes are a fairly long way ahead now and the efficiency of scoring and spacing brought in by the use of the 3 pointer is too big to ignore.

Notice I haven't mentioned players are better or worse from any of the eras however the adjustment for the 80s teams is massive and if you ported them into 2023 they would struggle a lot.

1980s sagging switching rotating defense that was really an uncalled illegal defense baring just enough minimal resemblance to a man to man defense to allow the refs that did not want to call illegal defense to not call illegal defense was a sophisticated defense. I reject the idea that those players could not play modern defenses but it might take them a year of practice to get to the point where they instinctually play modern defenses correctly.

The 1980s team that I created was immensely talented. If you took those players individually and added them to modern teams they would all be great because it is OK if a guy on a modern team can’t shoot 3s as long as his teammates can shoot 3s. The only guy that might get his minutes reduced on a modern team because of his poor shooting is Dennis Johnson.

I think people posting in the thread are overestimating the advantages of the modern teams when they think a great modern taem can beat the combined forces of 2 great 1980s teams. If I give that 1980s super team average current 3 point shooting and and some time to adjust to the modern game then I think the modernized 1980s super team would dominate the current teams. I doubt modern fans realize how good a guy lik Michael Cooper was. I don’t think modern fans have a clue about Norm Nixon or Cedric Maxwell.

Modern fans have some negative Ideas about the 1980s as if was a league of Kyle Macys and Gregg Dreilings, Clint Richardsons and Mike Bantoms.

[tsherkin]

I reject the idea that those players could not play modern defenses but it might take them a year of practice to get to the point where they instinctually play modern defenses correctly.

Literally no one is saying that they couldn't do it with appropriate time and coaching/training. The contention is that if they were ported forward as they were that they would struggle immensely, which is the overwhelmingly most likely outcome. You give them 6-12 months with a contemporary coach and the story begins to change, though they still won't be as good at it as those who have grown up in the era of those schemes, for obvious reasons.

[penbeast0]

I will add that there are a lot of other adjustments. If you took the Milwaukee Bucks of last year and you teleported them back to 1984, they would probably struggle to be better than the 50 win Bucks of that year, even though the 3 point shot is legal and they have all these advantages of modern schemes, coaching, training, weight work, etc. But, things the 80s players do instinctively, they would have to think to take advantage of . . . not carrying dribbles, not traveling on drives, not getting called for illegal defenses, etc. And many things they do instinctively, like jump into defenders, set moving screens, etc. would be called as fouls in 1984. They are a more talented team than the 84 Bucks and by the end of the year, they probably have a better shot at playoff supremacy, but the 22 Bucks would struggle to adjust for at least the 1st half of the season.

[tsherkin]

I will add that there are a lot of other adjustments. If you took the Milwaukee Bucks of last year and you teleported them back to 1984, they would probably struggle to be better than the 50 win Bucks of that year, even though the 3 point shot is legal and they have all these advantages of modern schemes, coaching, training, weight work, etc. But, things the 80s players do instinctively, they would have to think to take advantage of . . . not carrying dribbles, not traveling on drives, not getting called for illegal defenses, etc. And many things they do instinctively, like jump into defenders, set moving screens, etc. would be called as fouls in 1984. They are a more talented team than the 84 Bucks and by the end of the year, they probably have a better shot at playoff supremacy, but the 22 Bucks would struggle to adjust for at least the 1st half of the season.

Makes sense to me.

That said, even while they dealt with their notable turnover issues (as you say, carrying and traveling would be a huge deal), the HIGHEST-output team in 1984 MADE 1.2 3P/g. The 2023 Bucks are making 13.2 per game at the moment. That point differential will be of assistance even as they blow possessions with turnovers as they try to drive and what have you. First 40 games, they probably struggle pretty badly even still, though, but the 3pt shooting would help and in the back half would definitely help drive a resurgence.

To a degree, the same thing would be happening the other way around, as I discussed in my earlier post. The 80s guys aren't dumbasses; if you gave them a modern coach, they'd start learning the new schemes on both sides of the ball. I doubt Magic would ever be a huge PnR guy, but you could almost port him directly into the modern league and he'd still be fine in a lot of ways. Would take a little longer for them to adjust as far as 3s and such but some of the contemporary screening action won't take very long for them to learn at all.

We teach it to pre-teens, after all.