If you could re do the Cade, Green and Mobley draft would you go differently

[Duke4life831]

Ill just say this, as someone who has watched a ton more Magic games this year compared to last year where I only watched a few. Ive been blown away by Franz. I also dont understand any talk of a limited ceiling with him either. Its not like he is 4 years older than everyone else from the class. My only guess is people think that because they think he might lack athleticism or something. He's plenty athletic where athleticism isnt going to hold him back at all. Ive said this before, its like watching a young BI but he's stronger and looks to be less injury prone. He's 6'9 with a handle and is a good passer to go with being a willing passer. Behind Giannis, he might already have one of the most effective euro steps in the game which is one of the reasons I think he is such a good finisher at the rim.

His shooting is only going to get better and his feel for the game is only going to get better. I know Ill probably get some heat from Magic fans, but this is one of the reasons why Im not too happy with Fultz being in the starting lineup. I think the offense isnt as good with him out there and I thought it was better when Franz had a Time Per possession right around 5, compared to 2.7 where it has been since Fultz came back. I actually want Franz with the ball in his hands even more than what he gets. I think the dude is getting under used at the moment.

[tooler]

He’s already a better pro than I thought he’d be at his peak

Good take. This is all I was after when the thread heated up. People still thought his ceiling was below where he already was in year two.

Which player will end up the best, who knows.

The Magic are very interesting. It’s very rare to have your two best playmakers be your forwards. Most talented forwards wouldn’t get this extended opportunity to run the show, and I think the Magic should really lean into this and work on acquiring the best 3&D guards they can find, finishing and playmaking optional. Let PB and Franz run an offense that’s different than most of the competition and see where it takes you.

I go back and forth on this. It's hard to tell how good they are at playmaking because keeping the ball is the best option in most cases right now, for better or worse. (See the comment above while I was writing this!)

Tall wings cause matchup problems in the playoffs, but I feel like having strong guard play makes things easier over a long regular season. Franz admitted he appreciates Markelle taking some of the load. He looked exhausted out there carrying the entire team while Paolo was out. A lot of this is still completely new to him.

He's really good off the ball and curling around screens with a head of steam to the basket, so they ought to take advantage of that too. Right now I think a good combo guard would work best if they decide on a jumbo lineup with Franz at the 2. Still lots of question marks.

[Viper1500]

ok this is just getting ridiculous at this point.

How so?

Watch on YouTube

I like Barnes, Cade's and Mobley's potential ceiling over Franz, though Franz has indeed taken the 2nd biggest leap in terms of scoring, i'd say Giddey has improved the most actually. Franz scoring is more impressive than Giddey's though.

Giddey also has a case in terms of ceiling over Franz too.

It just boils down to that.

Considering Green's potential is basically almost completely tied to his scoring ability, that'll be interesting to follow. Green could blow past Franz as a scorer, but not this season.

Potential? Why? Franz is very athletic, good handles and good shooter. I don’t see any reason why his potential is any less than the others. If anything, his size puts them above them all outside of Mobley.


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[tmorgan]

He’s already a better pro than I thought he’d be at his peak

Good take. This is all I was after when the thread heated up. People still thought his ceiling was below where he already was in year two.

Which player will end up the best, who knows.

The Magic are very interesting. It’s very rare to have your two best playmakers be your forwards. Most talented forwards wouldn’t get this extended opportunity to run the show, and I think the Magic should really lean into this and work on acquiring the best 3&D guards they can find, finishing and playmaking optional. Let PB and Franz run an offense that’s different than most of the competition and see where it takes you.

I go back and forth on this. It's hard to tell how good they are at playmaking because keeping the ball is the best option in most cases right now, for better or worse. (See the comment above while I was writing this!)

Tall wings cause matchup problems in the playoffs, but I feel like having strong guard play makes things easier over a long regular season. Franz admitted he appreciates Markelle taking some of the load. He looked exhausted out there carrying the entire team while Paolo was out. A lot of this is still completely new to him.

He's really good off the ball and curling around screens with a head of steam to the basket, so they ought to take advantage of that too. Right now I think a good combo guard would work best if they decide on a jumbo lineup with Franz at the 2. Still lots of question marks.

Guards with playmaking skill would be fine, but they just gotta be able to shoot off the catch to unlock a truly unique, effective offense that’s forward-centric. That’s not what the Magic currently have, but it should be attainable, because those kind of guards tend to be affordable and available.

[tooler]

Guards with playmaking skill would be fine, but they just gotta be able to shoot off the catch to unlock a truly unique, effective offense that’s forward-centric. That’s not what the Magic currently have, but it should be attainable, because those kind of guards tend to be affordable and available.

It's honestly kind of hard to identify a gettable guard that fits, either via free agency or trade. We've tried going down the list. Maybe like a Gary Trent Jr? Veteran playoff experience would help too.

I think the dream is still Jalen Suggs in a Marcus Smart role, but I don't know if he'll ever get there. (Somewhat on-topic in the sophomore thread!)

The nice thing about Franz is he can play that role but you aren't forced to design the offense around him. If they get a star guard in the draft, it would be easy to pivot.

[kdthunderup]

If the Thunder had the #1 pick in the 2021 draft I would have to go with either Mobley or Franz.

Wagner is a super efficient and skilled player from all parts of the floor. He would have been an amazing #2 option next to SGA. Mobley is a DPOY type guy but his offense is quite limited and robotic (not bad though). I think he ends up being a better defensive version of Ibaka.

Green has the highest ceiling imo but needs to make a massive stride in IQ and decision making, not sure if the Rockets are the best team to make that happen for him. Haven't seen too much of Cade but think he will end up being a solid player with enough time. Barnes lacks polish from the perimeter but I still think he will be a really solid player. Giddey has improved on his weaknesses from his rookie which is promising but still doesn't have a super high ceiling - think he can be a really strong role player though.

If I had to do a redraft I would go

1. Wagner
2. Mobley
3. Cade
4. Barnes
5. Green
6. Giddey
7. Sengun
8. Murphy III
9. Jones

After that there is a pretty big gap in the rest of the prospects imo.

[basketballRob]

Ill just say this, as someone who has watched a ton more Magic games this year compared to last year where I only watched a few. Ive been blown away by Franz. I also dont understand any talk of a limited ceiling with him either. Its not like he is 4 years older than everyone else from the class. My only guess is people think that because they think he might lack athleticism or something. He's plenty athletic where athleticism isnt going to hold him back at all. Ive said this before, its like watching a young BI but he's stronger and looks to be less injury prone. He's 6'9 with a handle and is a good passer to go with being a willing passer. Behind Giannis, he might already have one of the most effective euro steps in the game which is one of the reasons I think he is such a good finisher at the rim.

His shooting is only going to get better and his feel for the game is only going to get better. I know Ill probably get some heat from Magic fans, but this is one of the reasons why Im not too happy with Fultz being in the starting lineup. I think the offense isnt as good with him out there and I thought it was better when Franz had a Time Per possession right around 5, compared to 2.7 where it has been since Fultz came back. I actually want Franz with the ball in his hands even more than what he gets. I think the dude is getting under used at the moment.

Franz was saying the other day he was thankful that Markelle was back to take the load off him. It was wearing him down and his shooting percentages were lower. Now, Paolo and Franz are both shooting 40% from 3 in the last 13 games.

Paolo and Franz still have plays when they bring the ball up.





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[Kiss of Death]

So, basically every team's fan thinks their team drafted the best player.

[Sidthekid87]

So, basically every team's fan thinks their team drafted the best player.

Lol bingo. Still to early in there careers to judge the guys at the top. There's about 5 guys who are all pretty close in impact and ceiling. Good draft year.

[thelead]

So, basically every team's fan thinks their team drafted the best player.

Just curious, where would you rank Green? I was his #1 fan on the Magic board heading into the lotto but his development alongside KPJ has been disappointing. To me, KPJ is rubbing off on him and we can all agree that's not a good thing. I have seen some improvement in playmaking skills but just not enough overall growth to be happy with for now.

And for the record, I'm totally cool with anyone of the opinion that Mobley should go first in a redraft. I just lean towards offense when I view the prospects fairly equally.

[Kiss of Death]

So, basically every team's fan thinks their team drafted the best player.

Just curious, where would you rank Green? I was his #1 fan on the Magic board heading into the lotto but his development alongside KPJ has been disappointing. To me, KPJ is rubbing off on him and we can all agree that's not a good thing. I have seen some improvement in playmaking skills but just not enough overall growth to be happy with for now.

And for the record, I'm totally cool with anyone of the opinion that Mobley should go first in a redraft. I just lean towards offense when I view the prospects fairly equally.

I think Green was the right pick for the Rockets. They needed a star after Harden left and they got one. You cannot really rate any of the Houston young players until they get an actual point guard who can run an offense.

Basketball wise, we won't know anything about who the best player in the draft is for years.

[junot111]

What I noticed is Scottie Barnes driving seems hit or miss with his finishing but when he gets good paint position, he has this like.. baby push hook shot thing that is pretty damn effective because it catches people off guard.

Great observation, that baby hook is probably his best offensive weapon. Though I'm not sure if it's catching people off guard at this point or they just can't stop it. He gets full extension with his long arm on the shot and has the strength to create space off the initial bump and to finish through contact, even over the likes of Giannis and Brook.

I have high hopes for Barnes and I'm happy with the pick from the Raptors but at this point I would take Cade, Wagner, Green and Mobley over him

1-3) Cade, Wagner, Green
4) Mobley
5) Barnes

[tooler]

Way too much positive talk about Franz today so I expect him to score about 2 points tonight.

[wegotthabeet]

So, basically every team's fan thinks their team drafted the best player.

welcome to RealGM.

[rapluva]

Im not picking a big who can’t be a star on offense over two potential star perimeter players who can shoot, score and create on offense.

What’s Mobley’s ceiling Jaren Jackson Jr.?

You’re taking Jaren Jackson Jr. over two likely 25ppg guards?

You take winners not scorers...and Mobley and Barnes are a different breed..they will be taking over the league in 4 years..

[GYK]

1. Cade still goes 1st. He’s the prototype star.

2 and 3. Mobley and Barnes are a toss ups their defense is more important than their offense. Their offense looks to be a peak of 2nd or 3rd offensive threat on a contender.

4. Giddy. He’s the prototype as well.

5. Green is a shot creator but idk is he an instant offense 6th man given free rein or a future pure scorer.

6. Franz does exactly what you want from his position and you can only hope for a bigger load.

[OrlMagic05]

Im not picking a big who can’t be a star on offense over two potential star perimeter players who can shoot, score and create on offense.

What’s Mobley’s ceiling Jaren Jackson Jr.?

You’re taking Jaren Jackson Jr. over two likely 25ppg guards?

You take winners not scorers...and Mobley and Barnes are a different breed..they will be taking over the league in 4 years..

Both Barnes and Mobley were drafted to teams who already had 1 or 2 all stars which helps your argument, so not fair to judge other rookies based on winning when none of the others play with all stars.

Put Barnes or Mobley on the Rockets, Magic, Pistons and let’s see how much winning they do..

[RSP83]

Either Cade or Mobley for top 2. But I'd probably go with Mobley going 1. Mobley has elite 2-way player potential.

[QingJames]

right now this would be my order:
1) Franz
2) Mobley
3) Green
4) Giddey
5) Barnes

Cade because of injury is out

dont see any All-NBA pick

Green is terrible.

No idea why people keep pretending this guy has the highest ceiling. Horrific defender and his shooting and playmaking are actually even worse this year than last. The dude is Jordan Clarkson with hops.

[JonFromVA]

Repeating it does not make it true.

Wagner has unteachable footwork on both the offensive and defensive end of the court.

What he does not have yet is toughness and the probability of him getting tougher is extremely high because the NBA world is cruel to the weak and people just simply get tougher the older they get.

I mean, I can say that the first 4 picks in the draft have something unteachable that the others don't.

Barnes, Cade and Giddey have the capability of putting up Giannis like stats on any given night. Ie 25 points/ 10 rebounds/ 10 assists.

All 3 have something that restricts them atm, but if either of the 3 figure it out, then that player is basically a franchise changing talent.

Green has the capability to erupt for 40 points on any given night due to his combination of handles and athleticism.

Mobley has the potential to be a playoff shutdown defender, meaning Mobley can basically shut Franz down.

Franz is one of the best finishers at the rim in the NBA. None of the the other lottery picks can say that.

Franz has scored over 30 points in a game multiple times.

fyi, Mobley is currently at 78.3% on shots between 0-3ft.