NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[ty 4191]

Most assists, single game, NBA History by a Center:
Wilt: 2/2/68: 21
Wilt: 3/24/67: 19
Wilt: 3/19/68: 19
Jokic: 12/28/20: 18
Wilt: 2/7/67: 17
Jokic: 2/15/18: 17
Wilt: 3/5/67: 16
Wilt: 2/4/68: 16
Jokic: 1/9/23: 16
Jokic: 11/13/18: 16
Jokic: 4/4/21: 16

The top 20 spots are all occupied by Wilt and Jokic. Of course, Wilt played 12-13 more MPG in a much higher possessions per game era, so, adjusting for pace:

This is HILARIOUS:

Assist % by a Center, Single Season, All Time:
1. Jokic (22'-23'): 45.9%
2. Jokic (21'-22'): 42.6%
3. Jokic (20'-21'): 40.4%
4. Jokic (18'-19'): 37.0%
5. Jokic (19'-20'): 35.2%
6. Tom Boerwinkle (74'-75'): 33.8%
7. Jokic (17'-18'): 29.6%
8. Siakam (22'-23'): 29.2%
9. Jokic (16'-17'): 28.8%
10. Divac (03'-04'): 28.7%

Career Assist % (Min 15000 MP), HOF Centers:
1. Jokic: 34.5%
2. Walton: 17.1%
3. Divac: 16.0%
4. Wilt: 15.8%
5. Arvydas Sabonis: 15.0
6. Bill Russell: 14.9%
7. Kareem: 14.6%
8. Lanier: 14.4%
9. Sikma: 14.0%
10. Shaq: 13.9%

Watch on YouTube

Consider, this graphic is dated, (January, 2017), and he's only gotten drastically better since then. Look at the results:

[iggymcfrack]

I saw the craziest Jokic stat tonight. He’s shot at least 50% from the field…. in each of his last 31 games.

WTF!!!!! How is that even possible for a #1 option? Dude’s remaking the sport. I honestly think he’s probably the best offensive player of all-time. He’s that good.

[AleksandarN]

Jokic is the man to beat at this point in the season. At this pace he will average a triple double by the end of the season. This with 62 shooting percentage that’s insane efficiency. He is playing the best ball in the league in my opinion. He may not win the award even if he averages a triple double while first in the west. We will see.

Watch on YouTube

[ty 4191]

I saw the craziest Jokic stat tonight. He’s shot at least 50% from the field…. in each of his last 31 games.

WTF!!!!! How is that even possible for a #1 option? Dude’s remaking the sport. I honestly think he’s probably the best offensive player of all-time. He’s that good.

10th longest streak of shooting over .500 in NBA history, and, everyone else ahead of him attempted 4 3 point shots or less during their streaks. Jokic is 30 for 74 (.405) from three during his 31 game streak.

Jokic is perhaps the greatest offensive player ever.

Jokic is definitely the greatest passing center, ever. By a huge margin.

Jokic may be the greatest passer ever, period.

Jokic may be the greatest shooter ever. At least, for a big man, it seems likely that he is:

Consider:
Jokic's career FG% from 5-10 feet is an (astounding) .573 (1680 FGA).

Since 1996-1997, min 1000 FGA, all time leaders:

-Nikola Jokic: .573
-Chris Paul: .500
-Jonas Valančiūnas: .499
-Joe Johnson: .499
-Robin Lopez: .476
-Kevin Durant: .468
-Elton Brand: .462

Notables:
-Kevin Garnett: .440
-Kobe Bryant: .439
-Tim Duncan: .430
-Anthony Davis: .428
-Shaquille O'Neal: .421
-Ray Allen: .410
-Dirk Nowitzki: .402
-LeBron James: .397
-Dwight Howard: .397
-Allen Iverson: .360
-Russell Westbrook: .337

(PS: As another frame of reference, Giannis has shot .341 (!!) career from 5-10 feet.)

If you look at all players with 1000 FGA from 5-10 feet the past 26 years, this puts Jokic's Z Score at +4.2 (standard deviations above the mean). That is the 99.973th percentile!!

As a frame of reference, Wilt Chamberlain scored 40.6 PPG from 1959-1960 through 1964-1965. Oscar was second with 31.1 ppg. Wilt's Z Score for PPG was "only" 3.09 standard deviations above the mean among all players with 10000 MP those years. The average of all those players was 17 PPG, FWIW.

Rodman's TRB% 1991-1992 through 1997-1998 was a staggering 26.0%. Shawn Kemp was a (very) distant second at 19.0%. Rodman's Z Score was "only" 2.85 standard deviations above the mean among all players with 15000 MP those years. The average of all those players was 11.2% TRB%.

[MrBigShot]

These are some hot takes lol. The Luka and Joker love in here next level. Would think they’re multiple time chip winners not ringless wannabes.

Will be good to watch Steph walk them down again this year. He elevates his teammates in a way they can’t - with offball movement. He opens up the floor so NBA level athletes have constant micro advantages and can utilize then. It’s just different. And the results play it out.

Lol

Jokic really pisses off some people doesn't he? This lumbering, unathletic, fundamental guy who leads his team to wins while scoring 14 points. Hate on him all you want, he's a basketball genius.

[Calvin Klein]

JOKIC JOKIC JOKIC

[nikster]

These are some hot takes lol. The Luka and Joker love in here next level. Would think they’re multiple time chip winners not ringless wannabes.

Will be good to watch Steph walk them down again this year. He elevates his teammates in a way they can’t - with offball movement. He opens up the floor so NBA level athletes have constant micro advantages and can utilize then. It’s just different. And the results play it out.

Jokic elevates his teammates in a way Curry cant: with insane passing. The off ball argument is weak when you compare Curry to Jokic. Curry has the ball in his hands far more then Jokic who's still creating yet 7 more points created off assists. Jokic has is own gravity, he's one of the greatest inside scorers of all time.

All the results of their career tell me is Currys had incredible supporting casts and Jokic hasn't

[Cubbies2120]

These are some hot takes lol. The Luka and Joker love in here next level. Would think they’re multiple time chip winners not ringless wannabes.

Will be good to watch Steph walk them down again this year. He elevates his teammates in a way they can’t - with offball movement. He opens up the floor so NBA level athletes have constant micro advantages and can utilize then. It’s just different. And the results play it out.

Jokic elevates his teammates in a way Curry cant: with insane passing. The off ball argument is weak when you compare Curry to Jokic. Curry has the ball in his hands far more then Jokic who's still creating yet 7 more points created off assists. Jokic has is own gravity, he's one of the greatest inside scorers of all time.

All the results of their career tell me is Currys had incredible supporting casts and Jokic hasn't

Inb4 "but Curry generates more hockey assists" (0.2 more per game than Jokic)...

On another topic:
Jokic creates 24.3 points per game off his assists alone, third behind Harden and Haliburton.

Jokic: 25ppg, 24.3 ppg from assists = 49.3 ppg generated in 33.5 minutes of gametime, for a guy who is #39 in Usage in the NBA
Doncic: 34ppg, 23.4ppg from assists = 57.4ppg generated in 37 minutes of gametime, for a guy who is #1 in Usage in the NBA

[Heej]

Jokic is ballin so hard people in the media are pre-emptively roasting people if they give in to voter fatigue. That's how good this dude is. He's gaslighting media members into thinking voter fatigue is no longer a thing.

[BelgradeNugget]

These are some hot takes lol. The Luka and Joker love in here next level. Would think they’re multiple time chip winners not ringless wannabes.

Will be good to watch Steph walk them down again this year. He elevates his teammates in a way they can’t - with offball movement. He opens up the floor so NBA level athletes have constant micro advantages and can utilize then. It’s just different. And the results play it out.

Jokic elevates his teammates in a way Curry cant: with insane passing. The off ball argument is weak when you compare Curry to Jokic. Curry has the ball in his hands far more then Jokic who's still creating yet 7 more points created off assists. Jokic has is own gravity, he's one of the greatest inside scorers of all time.

All the results of their career tell me is Currys had incredible supporting casts and Jokic hasn't

Inb4 "but Curry generates more hockey assists" (0.2 more per game than Jokic)...

On another topic:
Jokic creates 24.3 points per game off his assists alone, third behind Harden and Haliburton.

Jokic: 25ppg, 24.3 ppg from assists = 49.3 ppg generated in 33.5 minutes of gametime, for a guy who is #39 in Usage in the NBA
Doncic: 34ppg, 23.4ppg from assists = 57.4ppg generated in 37 minutes of gametime, for a guy who is #1 in Usage in the NBA

And if you add screen assists pts

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle?dir=D&sort=SCREEN_AST_PTS

you can add 8.5 points to Jokic and 0.1 to Luka...

That would be

Jokic: 25 ppg + 24.3 ppg from assists + 8.5 ppg from screen assists = 57.8
Luka: 34 ppg + 23.4 ppg from assists + 0.1 ppg from screen assists = 57.5

BTW did I mention that of 25 ppg he scores 2.3 ppg cames from putbacks?

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/putbacks?dir=D&sort=PTS

[Mickey8]

I am big Jokic fan, but he gets too much of credit on these boards for his average or below average performances. I think he was the trash last night, his assists against Lakers weren't even that impressive except one to Gordon . Most of them were given go, or his teammates dribbles the ball after he passed the ball to them. He should have completely dominate last night, scoring at will , yet he refused to take open shots or to score on one on one situations, he let the men down Lakers linger around almost until the end of the game. It was his weak performance last night like dozen of them this season. That's why I think he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation this season.

[Sedale Threatt]

Dozens!?!

[Mickey8]

12 to 15 this season were crap and I am holding him to MVP standards.

[-Luke-]

And if you add screen assists pts

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/hustle?dir=D&sort=SCREEN_AST_PTS

Oh, wow. I didn't know about that hustle section on nba.com. Thanks for posting!

[Inspektor1312]

I am big Jokic fan, but he gets too much of credit on these boards for his average or below average performances. I think he was the trash last night, his assists against Lakers weren't even that impressive except one to Gordon . Most of them were given go, or his teammates dribbles the ball after he passed the ball to them. He should have completely dominate last night, scoring at will , yet he refused to take open shots or to score on one on one situations, he let the men down Lakers linger around almost until the end of the game. It was his weak performance last night like dozen of them this season. That's why I think he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation this season.

I kinda get where you're coming from, but you can't say that a guy who put up 14/11/16 on 100% shooting played like "trash", especially in a blowout lmao
Games like these are a great opportunity for him to take a step back and let his recovering teammates find their rhythm (Jamal had his season high)

[CobraCommander]

I am big Jokic fan, but he gets too much of credit on these boards for his average or below average performances. I think he was the trash last night, his assists against Lakers weren't even that impressive except one to Gordon . Most of them were given go, or his teammates dribbles the ball after he passed the ball to them. He should have completely dominate last night, scoring at will , yet he refused to take open shots or to score on one on one situations, he let the men down Lakers linger around almost until the end of the game. It was his weak performance last night like dozen of them this season. That's why I think he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation this season.

Just say you didn’t watch the game - you were busy - we get it

[CobraCommander]

I am big Jokic fan, but he gets too much of credit on these boards for his average or below average performances. I think he was the trash last night, his assists against Lakers weren't even that impressive except one to Gordon . Most of them were given go, or his teammates dribbles the ball after he passed the ball to them. He should have completely dominate last night, scoring at will , yet he refused to take open shots or to score on one on one situations, he let the men down Lakers linger around almost until the end of the game. It was his weak performance last night like dozen of them this season. That's why I think he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation this season.

I kinda get where you're coming from, but you can't say that a guy who put up 14/11/16 on 100% shooting played like "trash", especially in a blowout lmao
Games like these are a great opportunity for him to take a step back and let his recovering teammates find their rhythm (Jamal had his season high)

So Denver beat a hot team (albeit without their big stars) and Jokic continues to say (like Giannis) that the goal of the game is to win and He puts more focus on playing within the flow of the game over numbers...so last night he plays within the flow of the game by not taking a single Ill advised or bad or stat padding shot And Yall find fault in that when they win by a mile?

A long heroic low % step 3 (make or miss) in a tight game isn’t better than playing within the flow of the game- being the most efficient and effective player in the league (maybe ever) while winning by a mile......

If it’s an excitement award or must see Tv award it’s Someone other than Jokic - but how can Jokic NOT be the mvp when he is winning and possibly statistically the best player we have seen since wilt... better than MJ better than prime Lebron —— he is offensively- Duncan, Malone, Stockton and Chris Paul - post like Duncan, mid like Malone and Duncan, passing and shooting from 3 and the line kinda like Stockton and CP3....if that’s not an mvp - What is?

[Mavrelous]

We're way past voter fatigue at this point, Jokic is the MVP and with healthy margin.

[Exp0sed]

I am big Jokic fan, but he gets too much of credit on these boards for his average or below average performances. I think he was the trash last night, his assists against Lakers weren't even that impressive except one to Gordon . Most of them were given go, or his teammates dribbles the ball after he passed the ball to them. He should have completely dominate last night, scoring at will , yet he refused to take open shots or to score on one on one situations, he let the men down Lakers linger around almost until the end of the game. It was his weak performance last night like dozen of them this season. That's why I think he shouldn't be in the MVP conversation this season.

I kinda get where you're coming from, but you can't say that a guy who put up 14/11/16 on 100% shooting played like "trash", especially in a blowout lmao
Games like these are a great opportunity for him to take a step back and let his recovering teammates find their rhythm (Jamal had his season high)

are u sure ur a Nuggets fan? did u watch the game or are u going by the boxscore?

Jokic had an insane game, his defense was the among the best i've ever seen from him - he was disrupting everything
on offense, he was constantly attacking, rushing the ball from the backcourt, setting screen after screen, a motion offense fueled by screens and handoffs, seriously sweet stuff tbh

his attacks were delibarate constantly putting pressure on the defense, creating holes and passing lanes, commanding a double team and finding the open man (and boy did he)
yes, he was clearly more intreseted in finding guys in their shooting spots (or for an easy one) and not with scoring

so what?

he literally had one of the best games I could think of, just so much fun to watch

I find it impossible to believe that u actually watched the game and ur take is that he had a "meh" game
or that it's ok that his level of effort was meh because it was a very easy game

Lakers actually fought pretty well with what they had and Jokic was putting max effort
no way u watched the game

[Mick Dundee]

JOKIC JOKIC JOKIC

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